Bynum rehab botched?

[Sedale Threatt]

Not sure if this needs to be in the media or injury threads, but I thought it was interesting so I'll toss this out into the fray.

I was more or less skimming through Mark Heisler's sider on Sunday's game until I got to this bit. It's basically a column, so he's not making anything more than a general observation based on his day-to-day contact with the team.

His take is that, A. The Lakers are covering up Bynum's status (it's always seemed strange to me that they've never established anything close to a concrete time line regarding his return; everything has been handled in very vague terms); and B. Bynum and his camp aren't all that thrilled with the treatment he's been given.

The Lakers turned out to need special, in view of Bynum's rehabilitation which has been a strain all around and isn't over yet.

Injured athletes are no new phenomenon in the NBA, but the Lakers have been at great pains to keep this story buttoned up.

With Bynum up for an extension this summer, his family and advisers are sensitive to any negative information that gets out, to say the least.

And, however diplomatically Bynum presented it, he didn't fly to New York to see his old orthopedist because they were serenely confident in the care he was receiving.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-hei ... storylevel

If so, that would be pretty disappointing. I'm not sure how a major investment like Andrew would get anything less than the absolute best of care.

I seem to recall Phil making a snide comment about Gary Vitti in the press recently about his inability to rehab players on schedule. It was said in jest, but with Phil there's usually some measure of weight behind his comments so perhaps he actually meant it.

Who knows? If this is true, maybe it's time to re-evaluate our medical staff and figure out if we've go the best people for the job.

[Tommy Trojan]

we got the best people money can buy, chill people. Big Drew will be back soon

[Sedale Threatt]

Says who?

It's been three months since he got hurt -- a full month longer than the original estimate -- and we really have no idea what his status is at the moment, or when he'll be back. Or even IF he'll be back at all, for that matter. I think that warrants a bit of concern, or at the very least curiosity.

I have absolutely no idea what's actually going on. If that's just the way his body is healing, so be it. But if there have been any mistakes made along the way...I don't know, call me paranoid, but somebody needs to be held accountable for that.

If for no other reason than to prevent any more mistakes. Let's not forget the Karl Malone debacle, which any decent high school trainer could have avoided. (How an NBA medical staff can't figure out that your starting PF has a torn ACL mystifies me to this day.)

[dockingsched]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=628974

call me the mitch of realgm posters. one year ahead.

[LLcoleJ]

Phil talked about this and said that the second look by the Dr in NY was because his family and agent wanted to make sure nothing bad will happen long term.

Obviously , Drew is up for an extenstion. Phil talked about that in this day and age ( wink wink contracts ) that players were looking beyond the team to be sure they are good for their future.

Phil made it seem like he should be able to go... once this 2nd opinion worked itself out.

This was on Phil'osphy 101 that is a pregame segment with bill mcdonald on FSN.

My take was that he felt , based on the rehab and doctor reports that he is ready to get back. His agent and family are making sure all is good.

[LAKESHOW]

his money and reup is not a problem. sign, seal and deliver this guy for his career in a LAKER uniform.

lamar on the other hand, those are numbers we can cut loose.

[second_coming32]

we got the best people money can buy, chill people. Big Drew will be back soon

No we don't, and you're down right foolish to think so. We lost two players to for the rest of the season who should have been out for 8-12 weeks. No other team has this problem other than the Lakers. In the meantime you got the Suns excellent training staff rebuilding Shaq to fly down the court with Steve Nash, and we can't even rehab our biggest future investment properly.

I'm f'n sick of it, I'm sick of the Lakers medical staff insulting my intelligence. They are subpar for professional sports and it's time to go. Give Vitti an advisory role and hire someone else...this is completely inexcusable. I'm sick right now....and I should be celebrating....but I'm just sick.

FIRE THE LAKERS TRAINING STAFF!!! Hire somebody capable of keeping guys on the court and accelerating recovery time for our guys. This is getting old already.

[Tommy Trojan]

All i know is without Bynum I do not want to face the Suns. Thats the only team that WILL give us proglems with their center position.

Plus you know Shaq will do everything possible to take out his old team.

So Drew you don't have much time, we need you man

[second_coming32]

All i know is without Bynum I do not want to face the Suns. Thats the only team that WILL give us proglems with their center position.

Plus you know Shaq will do everything possible to take out his old team.

So Drew you don't have much time, we need you man

Well you better call someone other than Vitti to get him on the court. It's not gonna happen this season for Bynum and it's unfortunate that he has to miss the rest of the season due to the Lakers medical incompetence.

[MikeyMike]

All the fans in the NBA are hard on the training staff...just go over to the Knicks board and you'll see.

I find it ironic that Bynum went out to NY for a 2nd opinion because everyone on the Laker board thinks that the NY dr. is so competent while the Knicks fans think all the Dr.'s on that side are (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Players get injured, players heal. The trainers are not god. What I'm saying is, it's on the player...his genetics, work ethic, etc...

Bynum's situation has a lot of politics behind it because;

1) He is thinking long term. He's only made money off of rookie contracts, he hasn't scored any major deal yet...the man has got to feed his family. And no, it's not silly to say that when you compare making a 3 million off a rookie contract versus 20 million from an extension.

2) The Lakers are winning without him, what's the rush to get him back on the court and become injured again?

I love what Popovich said about Manu Ginobili and his injury. He said that he'd rather go into the playoffs lower seeded with Manu completely healthy, as opposed to a higher seed and Manu injured.

Oh, and look....Lakers are sitting on top of the West.

Why rush Bynum? I want him to have a long and healthy career as a laker...the season technically hasn't even started yet.

The season starts when it's actually over...you know...Playoffs!

[Slava]

I'm really unable to understand why a player has stayed out of the game for so long without even getting a surgery done. The Karl Malone thing was pretty embarrassing but this whole Bynum thing raises red flags now over the medical staff. First it was their incompetence in putting a definite schedule through and then they diagnose him to play the last 5 games and now come out to say that he hasn't gotten any better? Are you kidding me man?

Even players that started the seasons with surgeries have come back and who knows, even Yao might return sooner than Bynum and Ariza if things continue this way.

[Teen Girl Squad]

All the fans in the NBA are hard on the training staff...just go over to the Knicks board and you'll see.

I find it ironic that Bynum went out to NY for a 2nd opinion because everyone on the Laker board thinks that the NY dr. is so competent while the Knicks fans think all the Dr.'s on that side are (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Players get injured, players heal. The trainers are not god. What I'm saying is, it's on the player...his genetics, work ethic, etc...

Bynum's situation has a lot of politics behind it because;

1) He is thinking long term. He's only made money off of rookie contracts, he hasn't scored any major deal yet...the man has got to feed his family. And no, it's not silly to say that when you compare making a 3 million off a rookie contract versus 20 million from an extension.

2) The Lakers are winning without him, what's the rush to get him back on the court and become injured again?

I love what Popovich said about Manu Ginobili and his injury. He said that he'd rather go into the playoffs lower seeded with Manu completely healthy, as opposed to a higher seed and Manu injured.

Oh, and look....Lakers are sitting on top of the West.

Why rush Bynum? I want him to have a long and healthy career as a laker...the season technically hasn't even started yet.

The season starts when it's actually over...you know...Playoffs!

Usually this is my opinion but when every player is out longer than estimated, when there has been multiple instances of misdiagnosis, when Kobe/Bynum etc... have their own preferred doctors, when there has been a chronic issue of ankle issues it all adds up. Not saying you need to fire them now or at all but it is a serious concern the FO needs to look into.

[slifersd]

The current trainers for the Lakers are horrible. Every time we have a player suffer any kind of injury, they are out almost double of the original estimates every single time. If it happens once, maybe it's an accident; twice, coincidence; but this has been happening for like five times the last two seasons! I remember last season, when Walton went out and was supposed to only miss about a week of action. It nearly took him a month to get back on the court. And even when he did come back, he was still fully recovered.

Andrew is not Karl Malone. He is a 20 years old kid whose recovery ability should be amazing right now. And yet, his estimated return time is doubled at least. There is no way the medical staff of the Lakres can get away without taking any responsibility for this. Hopefully, Phil and the playres will voice in their opinions this summer and get us some decent doctors. We are a team that's capable of building a dynasty, I would hate to see the dynasty ruined by some moronic doctors who don't know how to do their job.

[EHL]

Says who?

It's been three months since he got hurt -- a full month longer than the original estimate -- and we really have no idea what his status is at the moment, or when he'll be back. Or even IF he'll be back at all, for that matter. I think that warrants a bit of concern, or at the very least curiosity.

I have absolutely no idea what's actually going on. If that's just the way his body is healing, so be it. But if there have been any mistakes made along the way...I don't know, call me paranoid, but somebody needs to be held accountable for that.

If for no other reason than to prevent any more mistakes. Let's not forget the Karl Malone debacle, which any decent high school trainer could have avoided. (How an NBA medical staff can't figure out that your starting PF has a torn ACL mystifies me to this day.)

1) Bynum's original prognosis was a minimum of 8 weeks, so he's not on schedule or off schedule really, since they didn't technically specify how much longer than 8 weeks. So far it has been almost one month longer than 8 weeks, which certainly seems too long.

2) Malone had a torn MCL, not ACL, and I'm not sure what would make you think a decent "High school trainer" could have avoided that injury considering a high school trainer probably doesn't have their MD so they wouldn't know the difference to begin with.

[EHL]

-= original quote snipped =-



No we don't, and you're down right foolish to think so. We lost two players to for the rest of the season who should have been out for 8-12 weeks.

No, the Lakers did not. If you're going to make assertions at least make ones based in reality.

No other team has this problem other than the Lakers. In the meantime you got the Suns excellent training staff rebuilding Shaq to fly down the court with Steve Nash, and we can't even rehab our biggest future investment properly.

The Suns botched Amare's comeback two seasons ago when he came back too early and played only 3 regular season games before having to go back on the IR permanently and miss the playoffs. They did that with their young, budding franchise player. And Shaq so far with the Suns has already missed two games due to injury, in case you didn't know. Where was the Suns medical staff then? (that's a rhetorical question). You're beyond asinine if you think the Suns have a superior medical staff.

I'm f'n sick of it, I'm sick of the Lakers medical staff insulting my intelligence. They are subpar for professional sports and it's time to go. Give Vitti an advisory role and hire someone else...this is completely inexcusable. I'm sick right now....and I should be celebrating....but I'm just sick.

You're sick because you're hopelessly clueless. Gary Vitti has nothing to do with how Andrew's knee heals, his doctors are the ones advising him and Gary Vitti has never been an MD nor has he ever claimed to be one. He's has a Masters in sports medicine, a very different profession compared to being a medical doctor.

FIRE THE LAKERS TRAINING STAFF!!! Hire somebody capable of keeping guys on the court and accelerating recovery time for our guys. This is getting old already.

Sadly, the only thing getting old is tired, poorly researched overreactionary posts like this.

[CITYOFANGELSX3]

The current trainers for the Lakers are horrible. Every time we have a player suffer any kind of injury, they are out almost double of the original estimates every single time. If it happens once, maybe it's an accident; twice, coincidence; but this has been happening for like five times the last two seasons! I remember last season, when Walton went out and was supposed to only miss about a week of action. It nearly took him a month to get back on the court. And even when he did come back, he was still fully recovered.

Andrew is not Karl Malone. He is a 20 years old kid whose recovery ability should be amazing right now. And yet, his estimated return time is doubled at least. There is no way the medical staff of the Lakres can get away without taking any responsibility for this. Hopefully, Phil and the playres will voice in their opinions this summer and get us some decent doctors. We are a team that's capable of building a dynasty, I would hate to see the dynasty ruined by some moronic doctors who don't know how to do their job.

Very nicely said.

This has nothing to do with rushing bynum back. Its about our medical staff. Just look at their history the past couple of seasons.

[second_coming32]

No, the Lakers did not. If you're going to make assertions at least make ones based in reality.

Oh really? You want to try that one again? Whens the last time you've seen Ariza or Bynum in a game? How many games have they played since they've sustained their injuries? Oh yeah, how many games are left in the regular season? What are you talking about making assertions based in reality? As far as I'm concerened it doesn't get more real than both players missing the remainder of the regular season since the beginning of January.

The Suns botched Amare's comeback two seasons ago when he came back too early and played only 3 regular season games before having to go back on the IR permanently and miss the playoffs. They did that with their young, budding franchise player. And Shaq so far with the Suns has already missed two games due to injury, in case you didn't know. Where was the Suns medical staff then?

.

(that's a rhetorical question) You're beyond asinine if you think the Suns have a superior medical staff.

How cute, you tried to be condescending.

I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to pretend to understand the Stoudamire injury, but I do know from observing him play that he's more explosive than he ever was before the injury. And if you really want to look at the Suns track record, how many games has Grant Hill missed this year due to injury. Shaqs missed two games right? How many is that in comparison to all the games he missed with the Lakers and with the heat. Give me a break. Spin it any way you want to, the Suns have the best medical staff in the NBA.

You're sick because you're hopelessly clueless. Gary Vitti has nothing to do with how Andrew's knee heals, his doctors are the ones advising him and Gary Vitti has never been an MD nor has he ever claimed to be one. He's has a Masters in sports medicine, a very different profession compared to being a medical doctor.

Its funny that you're calling me clueless when you haven't had your facts straight to begin with. I'm not blaming ONLY Gary Vitti, I'm blaming him and his entire staff. They have to go. They employ old standards of sports recovery that are outdated, meaning every single player who gets injured is on the shelf longer than the prognosis, which speaks to nothing more than incompetence in the area of sports injuries and how to properly recover from them.

Sadly, the only thing getting old is tired, poorly researched overreactionary posts like this.

No sir, the only thing that is getting old is fans like you and your sorry attempts to defend an incompetent medical staff because of your nostalgic feelings regarding the personnel. This isn't a knee jerk reaction. I've been a laker fan for years and I've always stood by Vitti, but for the last 5 years the quality of his work has been on the decline, and it's time to revamp the medical staff.

Again, what exactly have I poorly researched? If your talking about Vitti's track record, than no sir, I haven't poorly researched anything. I see our staff and the results they get versus the staffs of other teams and the results they get with similar injuries and they are in stark contrast to our poor results. Please, never ever consider going to law school because you'd be a terrible lawyer. You sir are the reason why most people hate Laker fans. Grow up.

[SashAlex]

This story reminds me of something that had been very actual until this season.

I've heard that chinese doctors are very competent, really !
A lot of soccer teams hire chinese doctors. Also those from Germany are very qualified ones. You know that soccer players may suffer a couple of more serious injuries.

[BallAboveAll]

This is my two cents. The Lakers and the staff are probably almost certain of Andrew's prognosis. With Phil's comments he seems to beat around the bush and be very vague. He's instilling some confidence that he will comeback but at the same time only being optimistic. He's not making any guarantees or giving concrete answers.

We are not being fooled. It's just for some reason the Lakers do not like to unveal the whole truth in terms of injuries. Maybe it's a mental thing to keep the rest of the league on their heels even at their own fans expense. They know whether he's done for the year or not. I think they are just trying to milk the situation as much as they can.

Besides no need to worry. I think the trade for Gasol hinted at the fact that Andrew would be done for quite some time. Imagine if we waited for Bynum with no trade. What would have happened?

As far as for the playoffs. The Lakers are more than capable to play solid defense on the perimeter and defending the pick and roll. Just look how ineffective Paul and Chandler were when we built up a 30 point lead. As far as the Suns I think we are more than capable of betaing them without Bynum.

[Sedale Threatt]

-= original quote snipped =-
Malone had a torn MCL, not ACL, and I'm not sure what would make you think a decent "High school trainer" could have avoided that injury considering a high school trainer probably doesn't have their MD so they wouldn't know the difference to begin with.

It has absolutely nothing to do with preventing the injury itself. There isn't a trainer on Earth that can keep the athletes under his care from tearing a knee ligament. It's sports, and those are the breaks.

I do, however, find it absolutely ridiculous that a pro staff would diagnose an injury like that as a strain, and allow their athlete to rehab as such for a month, before a doctor under outside employ discovered that it was actually torn.

As such, I blamed the training staff for "the Malone debacle," not the injury itself.

That incident is neither here nor there; it happened a long time ago. I would also point out that I am NOT one of those who have screamed bloody murder and blamed the training staff for the rash of injuries we've suffered over the past two or three seasons.

The only reason I brought up the Malone situation is to illustrate that, if indeed mistakes have been made with Andrew's rehab, it wouldn't be the first time L.A.'s staff has screwed up an important assignment.

Again, I have absolutely no idea what's going on with Andrew. This was an unusual injury suffered to a major part of the body. If all the proper steps have been taken and Drew's simply healing slowly, then there's nothing that can be done. Take all the time you need to get yourself better, and if that means waiting until next season to return, then by all means wait.

But by the same token, I've been scratching my head over this situation for a while. This wasn't the first time I've read someone inferring that either this injury is much more serious than the Lakers are letting on, or that mistakes might have been made in his rehab.

A full month after the initial time frame ended, with no concrete end in sight and the playoffs about to start, I think it's more than fair to start asking serious questions. Or at the very least, retire the cavalier "don't worry, he'll be back" stance.