what I didn't see in game 1

Post #1 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:48 am

this will probably get moved to the game thread, but I think it is worth it own discussion.

during the game I was reading the GB game thread and many posters from other boards were putting Kobes game down and quite frankly I agreed with them.

I thought Kobe was not effective in the game until garbage time. I thought Lamar and Gasol dominated. I thought Martin did a great job on Kobe.

during the post game press conference (btw- FSW will have "Lakers live" with Norm, Billy Mac, Joel and Stu after every playoff game reguardless of what network the game is actually on) Kobe said that he was effective because his role was to be the "decoy".

I was puzzled at first because I couldn't figure out exactly what he meant.
then I thought about what a decoy is and realized that Kobe took out Martin out of the paint to open the game for Pau and Odom. the more I thought about it the more sense "pick your poison" made.

what I am having trouble accepting is how far did Kobe take it. was he making Karl think that Martin was so effective on Kobe that it was worth it to keep Martin on Kobe or was Kobe just trying to wear out Martin to take him out offensibly as well?

I don't know if am just being a homer and reading to much into it, but if that is what Kobe meant by "decoy" than it worked and I didn't see it.

Post #2 » by **dockingsched** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:01 am

martin, not camby.

and i agree with kobe. i posted about it several times on the lakers thread and general board. the nuggets used their best post defender on kobe, there is no surprise that odom and gasol absolutely destroyed the inside. a decoy, however, doesn't take 26 shots. martin was on kobe whether he was chucking or not so i don't see how kobe even needed to take more than 15 shots. taking all those shots didn't make kobe a better decoy, it just played into the nuggets game plan.

shortodom · Post #3 » by **shortodom** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:03 am

i think you mean Martin on Kobe? but if they try that in game 2 Martin will be in foul trouble quick. the only reason he did a good job is cause Kobe's shot was off and Kobe wasn't drivin to the rim. I expect Kobe to take it to the hole early next game if Martin is on him.

Post #4 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:05 am

it was K-mart FYI

Post #5 » by **dockingsched** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:05 am

kobe didn't take it to the rim because he couldn't get around martin. if his shot falls maybe martin can't play off of him so much. for that reason i don't blame kobe for shooting the jumpers early on. it got to the point though that the lakers simply did not need kobe to turn it on since gasol and odom were just ballin'. the 4th quarter had "time to get mine" written all over it.

Post #6 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:12 am

edit- double post

Post #7 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:13 am

dcash4 wrote:martin, not camby.
and i agree with kobe. i posted about it several times on the lakers thread and general board. the nuggets used their best post defender on kobe, there is no surprise that odom and gasol absolutely destroyed the inside. a decoy, however, doesn't take 26 shots. martin was on kobe whether he was chucking or not so i don't see how kobe even needed to take more than 15 shots. taking all those shots didn't make kobe a better decoy, it just played into the nuggets game plan.

thanks, fixed it :oops:

shortodom · Post #8 » by **shortodom** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:15 am

dcash4 wrote:kobe didn't take it to the rim because he couldn't get around martin. if his shot falls maybe martin can't play off of him so much. for that reason i don't blame kobe for shooting the jumpers early on. it got to the point though that the lakers simply did not need kobe to turn it on since gasol and odom were just ballin'. the 4th quarter had "time to get mine" written all over it.

Kobe had a off night, he'll make his shots next game and Martin won't be able to gaurd him

Crooked-I · Post #9 » by **Crooked-I** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:27 am

It kind of makes sense. With KMart guarding Kobe, Carmelo has to guard LO and we know how that turned out. I guess Karl had to make a choice who would do more damage. Carter on Kobe or Carmelo on LO(which is basically what your saying with pick your poison). Keep in mind Carmelo on LO opens everything up for Pau also.

I guess the only thing Denver can do is start JR Smith or Kleiza on Kobe and keep KMart on LO. I doubt they do that though because of how well KMart did. So basically Kobe's bad game will help us in the end.

EDIT: That being said, I highly doubt Kobe would have a bad game on purpose.

slickgreek · Post #10 » by **slickgreek** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:01 am

TNT even said it was a dumb move to put Martin on Kobe...

Post #11 » by **dockingsched** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:08 am

the dumb move wasn't putting martin on kobe. i don't think it was all that dumb seeing as how martin did a great job on him. the problem was keeping anthony carter in the game. what exactly was the purpose of having him in the game at all? he was just a walking mismatch for the nuggets out there.

Sedale Threatt · Post #12 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:23 am

I agree. I'm not sure who else Karl can go to besides Martin. Kobe will destroy Smith and Carter, and Kleiza doesn't have the footspeed. Karl doesn't have many options here. I think his best bet might just be to go to a full-time zone.

I don't watch the Nuggets enough to make an educated observation, but I imagine Karl likes Carter as a veteran, steadying influence. You've already got two guys with absolutely no conscience in AI and Melo; add a third streetball type to the starting lineup and the arena might implode.

Plus, as difficult as it is to imagine, Smith seems to make a bad defensive team even worse.

Granted, he's a great scorer who has really helped this team over the second half. Maybe he deserves to start. But damn, that's a pretty volatile mix to throw out there for major minutes.

Regarding the Kobe decoy thing, I think it's true to a certain extent -- the Nuggets were obviously keying on him, and compromised themselves in the process. But I expect Kobe to be a lot more patient and efficient if Denver tries the same strategy in Game 2. He's done it before against the same team, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Flipdog69xxx · Post #13 » by **Flipdog69xxx** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:41 am

Yes, Martin did a good job defensively on Kobe but that only opened up the paint for Odom and Gasol (hence pick your poison). If Karl continues this defensive assignment for Martin Kobe probably won't even have to do much this series.

Verbal · Post #14 » by **Verbal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:10 am

Interesting theory, snaq.

I was tripping out watching this game at home thinking... "drive it at Martin and just dominate, he can't guard you!"

I'm glad we won, but if the game is close and Martin's on Kobe, Kobe should just take the express lane through K-Mart.

All day.

Post #15 » by **Slava** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:20 am

+1 on what Verbal said.

No way using Kobe as decoy was our game plan coming out and surely enough K-Mart guarding Kobe should have come as a big surprise to Phil and Kobe himself.

It was a smart move on Karl to be honest, something thats so uncharacteristic of his orthodox coaching philosophy. If he had put K-Mart on LO, Kobe would have sealed the game by half-time.

But Kobe should have been looking to take it to the basket with a PF on multiple knee surgeries guarding him. By not doing so, he took away Fisher and Radmanovic from the game because they did not feed off the drive and kick passes that Kobe would create for them.

It was a blessing in disguise in one way that Walton got to play more and did a decent enough job on Melo rather than Radman do that job.

Kobe should have destroyed K-Mart and put him under early foul pressure to literally puke on their entire strategy.

Post #16 » by **dockingsched** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:22 am

there was no express lane to the basket. kobe simply could not get around martin. he tried and he tried, but he just couldn't.

LAKESHOW · Post #17 » by **LAKESHOW** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:23 am

whatever happened, 30 or whatever pts came out of nowhere, and kobes "seemingly" off night blindsided denver and some fans around here.

but i think the gameplan will be different next time around. camby may not come over to help. which would be perfect. then lamar and kobe should just ATTACK the rim. if no help comes, then jam the rock down their throats.

Verbal · Post #18 » by **Verbal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:24 am

j-far wrote:+1 on what Verbal said.

No way using Kobe as decoy was our game plan coming out and surely enough K-Mart guarding Kobe should have come as a big surprise to Phil and Kobe himself.

It was a smart move on Karl to be honest, something thats so uncharacteristic of his orthodox coaching philosophy. If he had put K-Mart on LO, Kobe would have sealed the game by half-time.

But Kobe should have been looking to take it to the basket with a PF on multiple knee surgeries guarding him. By not doing so, he took away Fisher and Radmanovic from the game because they did not feed off the drive and kick passes that Kobe would create for them.

It was a blessing in disguise in one way that Walton got to play more and did a decent enough job on Melo rather than Radman do that job.

Kobe should have destroyed K-Mart and put him under early foul pressure to literally puke on their entire strategy.

Thanks.

If they go small, we could move Kobe to SF and force Melo to guard Kobe.

Sasha can stay in front of AI...

Kobe, Gasol, LO, oh my.

Kobe, Gasol, LO, oh my!

Post #19 » by **Slava** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:27 am

Moving Turiaf in and have LO play at SF would work too. That adds a shot blocker into the mix to keep AI off from around the basket and adds some rebounding advantage.

chefy · Post #20 » by **chefy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:28 am

kobe can get pass martin anytime he wants to, kobe was the decoy
he actually tested martin early in the first quarter and the result is an open layup, cmmon guys do you guys really think kenyon martin can shutdown kobe?

but kobe and gasol did a very stupid thing telling our plan to the media :banghead: