RealGM

rebounding has been by far one of ou weakest assets as a basketball team. i understand one thing-"we didnt have andrew bynum"...which is true, but even with gasol and odom, we should have done decent in rebounding at best, but we were horrible...
on top of all this, people are all fo trading lamar odom, personally, i think hes the best small forward rebounder in the nba. i even think his game is one of the more versatile and polished games compared to other small forwards...give or take lebron, pierce, vince, and the occasional nowitzki and garnett.
i seriously think we would be better off holding on to lamar odom and giving it a season to see how it works with the biggest fronline in the nba. i highly doubt we would get outrebounded in a game...his defense isnt too bad either, its passable...shooting is a major problem, but dont get me wrong..ive seen a drastic improvement ever since gasol came to LA.

personally, i think lamar is a better fit than either marion, artest, jefferson, kirilenko, etc etc.


KEEP ODOM!!!!!!!!!!


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08/09CHAMPIONS

Damn I just wrote the same thing in the Trade thread.

I differ only in that I would trade Odom if we got a combination of rebounding and defensive versatility back but I can't see that bc I just described Odom.

I'd say he's one of the better PF's than SF in the league. While playing PF and with a capable Center, he had averages around 16 pts 12 rebs on .600 shooting. But just like everyone, I do hate when he disappears, especially in the NBA Finals. He gave one bad playoff series, and unfortunately, it was the one that mattered the most. But let's not forget that the whole team/staff must take some blame as well.

Oh, I disagree with the Marion part. He can defend positions from 1-4, has a (although ugly) 3pt shot, and does all dirty work that Odom does. One thing Odom has on Marion is his ability to create occasionally.

Shawn Marion's defense is overated and Former Rockets coach Van Gundy made that point also. Getting steals does not make you a great defender.

Shooting guards and wing players used to light Marion and the Suns up all the time.

B-Scott wrote:Shawn Marion's defense is overated and Former Rockets coach Van Gundy made that point also. Getting steals does not make you a great defender.

Shooting guards and wing players used to light Marion and the Suns up all the time.

Marion's defense might not be what everyone says, but it's still very respectable. Odom's defense is about the same, imo.

There are not many power forwards who would have had a lot of success against a hungry Kevin Garnett in the NBA Finals. KG would have locked up majority of the power forwards with the exception of Duncan. This is why im not overeacting to Lamar being inconsistent in the Finals. Majority of the power forwards in the NBA would have been inconsistent with KG guarding them.

With Marion over Lamar are we the same great passing team we were with Lamar? Marion needs the PG to create for him. When he went to Miami and Wade was injured he was struggling big time because he can't create. I think this puts more pressure on Kobe to create for his teammates and now Gasol and Bynum have to create there own shot way to much.

Boston would actually gang up more on Kobe kwowing Marion can't dribble

Mr. Reggie Evans right here in Philadelphia can make a case for rebounding the ball at an equal rate if not better and provide good D on opposition PFs for 4 mil a season and a chance to grab Kaman's nutsack.

Re: Odom's supposed ability to create a shot, I'd be more happy if he can cut to the basket without drawing charge and finish the damn lay up.

Marion is NOT overrated on defense.

I see where you coming from, but we're not really asking Odom to dribble or create much either anymore. On other threads, I'm actually for keeping Odom because of his new role as 3rd option once Bynum developed and we acquired Gasol. Without the core of Kobe/Pau/Odom, we wouldn't of gotten this far in the playoffs. I'm grateful to have this guy, but I'm just stating what I agree/disagree with.

We all know the differences between Marion and Odom, but just for the record I'm not dying to get Marion either. His ego has gotten as big just as his desired contract. During the Finals, the things I thought we needed the most was defense (on Pierce), spacing for Kobe and Gasol (that can slash or knock down the 3pt), rebounding, and someone with the ability to finish around the rim.

The main thing I'd like about Marion, is that we can actually put another consistent body on Pierce. Giving him with the main role of guarding Pierce while switching it up with Kobe and Ariza to give him different looks that would mess up his rhythm.

You can't really compare Marion in Miami vs Marion in Phoenix because we all know 1st hand what the biggest difference in what a #2 and #3 option should/could do, besides Miami was dysfunctional at that time. To make it fair, a lot of credit of the Suns Perimeter defense for sucking so much has to go mostly to Nash and partially Raja Bell. The truth is that their perimeter defense was definitely better with Marion that what it is now.

On the offensive end, I'd give Odom his fair share for being able to create (which includes passing). Versus the Nuggets, I'm Okay with the Odom that showed up. Versus the Jazz, I loved the Odom that showed up. Versus the Spurs, I was satisfied with the Odom that showed up. But against the Celtics, he didn't provide the necessary impact that we needed in a 48 minute game, and I think a lot has to do with what you said, DPOY KG. Odom creating on offense isn't what we really needed. Heck, if Kobe had a hard time trying to penetrate, what can you expect of Odom.

What we truly needed in that series was a dominate low post scorer who would force the defense to focus on him. Pau couldn't do that, hopefully Bynum could. Having that outside/inside game would perfectly compliment Marion's skill set, by having a potential 3pt shooter (he's not great, but Eddie House and Posey aren't that much better either), a slasher that can finish around the rim well, and someone who can make that extra pass if its needed (he did it all day long in Phoenix).

Lastly, I'm just comparing both their skill sets in the aspect of the #3 spot. Marion at the 3 is better than Odom at the 3. But Odom at the 4 is better than Marion at the 4, and aren't we looking for the ideal 3 spot? I'm not a big fan of Odom moving to the 3 spot nor am I fan of a Pau/Bynum frontcourt, so everything we talk about is just pure speculation at best.

I'm not demanding a Marion trade. I'm just pointing out what the pros and cons would be. Like I said, everything we talk about is mostly speculation anyways, and I'm loyal to Odom right now hoping we could keep him. We won't know anything solid until the all-star break, so it would be best if we hold any strong opinions about Odom and what not till then. Maybe what my sig says is all we need.

j-far wrote:Re: Odom's supposed ability to create a shot, I'd be more happy if he can cut to the basket without drawing charge and finish the damn lay up.

+1

We need a tuff guy in SF who has experience in defense and is willing to take charges. We also need a defensive coach who will make the team play defense for 82 games instead of first 10 games then just focus on offense thinking they've could play defense consistently in just 10 games.

Phil_2.0 wrote:Marion is NOT overrated on defense.

I have to disagree; Marion's defense is very overrated.

Unlike some other players, aside from filling up the stat sheet on steals and blocks Marion does play good defense. He can't defend the other positions for the whole game without getting tired out, but if you want a guy who defends the 1-4 spot, whomever is the best player on that team for a quarter or so, Marion is your guy. If you want to talk about who theoretically fits this current team more, it's Marion. The downside is, you don't know if he will feel appreciated here. Also, he's 30 and completely relies on hustle plays to be productive, when you add onto the fact that he played under the run'n'gun for three and a half years, with whatever wear and tear he will shoulder because he's playing with a rebuilding team, do you think he could still play well enough to push this team over the top?

From the last couple responses the common comparison is between LO and Marion. They have had their battles in the past and for the most part i believe LO has beat him throughout. Here are a few factors that i see that will affect LO playing the 3 effectively. LO is active in the post for rebounds but he isnt an ariza that slides in the open spots to grab rebounds. With that being said the 3 position is a wing position in which most of the time the team is looking to use you either in the post or on the perimeter or for you to create. LO does 2 of those things pretty well. He gets in the post and he creates his perimeter offense isnt great. Garnett sagged off him in the finals because he wanted to clog the lane that Bryant desperately needed. Garnett basically dared LO to hit his shots and most times he passed out rather then take it at garnett. In game 6 he took it to Garnett and got to the line, and that is what really worked too bad that it was 5 games too late. So i see it as LO having trouble at the 3 because of the fact that he isnt aggressive to the hoop all the time. When he is he is dangerous. When he isnt then the team will struggle down low because no one trusts his jumper. Marion is like ariza in that he attacks the hoop and can produce many problems because of the fact that he shoots the 3 pretty well. I really think LO's rebounding will decrease if he continues to play the same way. For the past years watching LO i have always been waiting for him to come out and blow us all away with consistent play and until Gasol came here did i see it shine. But when gasol was hampered in the finals of the physical C's LO struggled. I really do think with his contract ending and i believe if we were to negotiate an extension we cannot lower his contract more then 10-15% (someone can correct me the exact amount if i am wrong), we should really look to trade. If LO wants to be a laker, we can have him after his contract ends at a lower price. Ron ROn or Tayshan are my two picks for a starting 3. Or if we can somehow pick out travis outlaw from Portland that would be nice.