RealGM

Warning: This thread is not intended to troll against Kobe, the Lakers, etc..

I have much love and respect for Kobe and consider myself so lucky to be a Laker fan and have this guy on my team because he truly is the best player alive right now and in the NBA.

Having said that, after this finals I think that Jordan will go down in the history books as better than Kobe. Even if Jordan had better teammates than Kobe, got better treatment from the refs, etc.., none of that matters.

Whether Jordan deserves it or not, there is a mystique to him...Michael Jordan is very much synonymous with Superman. He transcended the game.

The fact that Kobe lost in the finals, no matter the circumstance...Celtics were a better team, Bynum was injured, Kobe's pinky was injured, whatever. The damage has been done to Kobe's legacy. He took his team to the finals, he won the MVP, but he wasn't able to get that trophy.

Even if Kobe goes off and wins 3 more rings throughout his career, he still won't be as good as Jordan either... because although that will equal 6 (Same amount as Jordan), Kobe got 3 of those with Shaq.

So basically, Kobe needs to win 6 more rings to prove that he is better than Jordan. Which I don't really see as too likely.

I still love Kobe, and I don't mean to bash him or anything...I am grateful enough the Lakers made it to the Finals under all the difficult circumstances...I'm just saying that Kobe is Kobe, a great player in his own right. But no, not as a good as Mike.

why dont you let Kobe be Kobe?

I do.

I'm just saying for other people out there who want to say Kobe is better than or even equal to Jordan, that's not the case.

Phil_2.0 wrote:why dont you let Kobe be Kobe?

People lets get off of the comparisons of Kobe and Jordan

so you are saying that Jordan would have won the finals against the Celtics if he would have been playing with the Lakers team that Kobe had. last time I checked Jordans teamates always showed up to play for him. anyway it is impossible to compare the 2 of them so let's just lock this please.

MikeyMike wrote:I do.

I'm just saying for other people out there who want to say Kobe is better than or even equal to Jordan, that's not the case.

well there are people who ride Kobe's Jock more than others and will make those claims and then there are the haters that will continue to bring it up. Those are the people that constantly bring up the kobe v. jordan argument.

Then there are those who wnat Kobe to be Kobe and let his career speak for its self. Its not over and it might not end up being him being better than jordan.. and that is ok. Not my concern.

If you ask me..post like this only bring this silly debate into question. He is not a failure if he is not Jordan.

I actually put Magic Johnson up there with Jordan. ( and Kareem) and just because they didnt dominate every finals and or win every finals that doesnt make them any less of a player.

Magic went to the finals 9 times and has 5 rings. Thats good enough for me.

Stop all the Jordan v. Kobe debates and it will be a better place and let Kobe be Kobe.

comparing Kobe to Jordan is a shortcut to thinking!
It's a shame so many people take shortcuts, especially when it comes to thinking!

Lock!

The difference between MJ and Kobe is explosiveness and the ability to play without the basketball. MJ has the advantage with both. Kobe has a habit of over dribbling near the 3 point line area which makes it easy to gang up on him. One of MJ's strengths was giving it up and quickly cutting and getting it back. This would work with ease against a NBA Zone because the defender is guarding a area and not there man.

MJ also made his decisions much quicker. If he passed and got it back he would quickly make the decision to attack to the rack off his 1st step or jab step to his left and go right for a pull up Mid-Range 18 footer. MJ's Mid-Range game was a lot more consistent.

If Pierce and KG are ganging up MJ at the 3 point line, MJ would simply give it up and quickly cut and get it back. Instead of over dribbling.

MikeyMike wrote:Warning: This thread is not intended to troll against Kobe, the Lakers, etc..

I have much love and respect for Kobe and consider myself so lucky to be a Laker fan and have this guy on my team because he truly is the best player alive right now and in the NBA.

Having said that, after this finals I think that Jordan will go down in the history books as better than Kobe. Even if Jordan had better teammates than Kobe, got better treatment from the refs, etc.., none of that matters.

Whether Jordan deserves it or not, there is a mystique to him...Michael Jordan is very much synonymous with Superman. He transcended the game.

The fact that Kobe lost in the finals, no matter the circumstance...Celtics were a better team, Bynum was injured, Kobe's pinky was injured, whatever. The damage has been done to Kobe's legacy. He took his team to the finals, he won the MVP, but he wasn't able to get that trophy.

Even if Kobe goes off and wins 3 more rings throughout his career, he still won't be as good as Jordan either... because although that will equal 6 (Same amount as Jordan), Kobe got 3 of those with Shaq.

So basically, Kobe needs to win 6 more rings to prove that he is better than Jordan. Which I don't really see as too likely.

I still love Kobe, and I don't mean to bash him or anything...I am grateful enough the Lakers made it to the Finals under all the difficult circumstances...I'm just saying that Kobe is Kobe, a great player in his own right. But no, not as a good as Mike.

Why must we recycle this over and over? The difference between kobe and jordan is teammates and the truth. People love to believe that jordan always played good and would neverlet his team lose and blah blah blah. Well i guess jordan didn't care about winning until 91'. Also is it me or was jordan only able to breakthrough when the lakers and celtics got old? Jordan scored a ton of points against the celtics one year only to lose. Got spanked by the pistons a few times also. Just goes to show you need help. Also please spare us the kobe played with shaq trash. Shaq never guaranteed anything. Playing with shaq is no different than playing with other great players. So what if kobe won with shaq. He also won with horry and rick fox. I'll tell you what let jordan win one without pippen and then he can be on the same level as magic and bird. Heck let jordan get to a conference final without pippen.

B-Scott wrote:The difference between MJ and Kobe is explosiveness and the ability to play without the basketball. MJ has the advantage with both. Kobe has a habit of over dribbling near the 3 point line area which makes it easy to gang up on him. One of MJ's strengths was giving it up and quickly cutting and getting it back. This would work with ease against a NBA Zone because the defender is guarding a area and not there man.

MJ also made his decisions much quicker. If he passed and got it back he would quickly make the decision to attack to the rack off his 1st step or jab step to his left and go right for a pull up Mid-Range 18 footer. MJ's Mid-Range game was a lot more consistent.

If Pierce and KG are ganging up MJ at the 3 point line, MJ would simply give it up and quickly cut and get it back. Instead of over dribbling.

If pierce and kg did to jordan what they did to kobe,jordan would have shot low 40% like he did in 96.

1996 MJ was 34 years old. Im talking about from 1991 to 1993 before retirment when his athletic ability was still there. There is no way the Bulls could be down 24 and Paul Pierce goes to Doc Rivers and says put be on MJ like he did to Kobe in Game 4. It would not work because MJ could create high percentage shots from the post because he was stronger at getting position and as i said played better without the basketball. Kobe had a easy time posting up Ray Allen and the Lakers built the lead from the Celtics having to double Kobe and our shooters were wide open. Once Pierce got on Kobe it was harder to post him up because Pierce is stronger.

MJ could post Pierce up because he's stronger then Kobe

lakerholic4life wrote:
If pierce and kg did to jordan what they did to kobe,jordan would have shot low 40% like he did in 96.

false

Those that continue to go back and forth about this argument are the ones that further make these comparisons. Its silly.

Let Kobe be Kobe. He doesnt need to be like Mike.

stop

B-Scott wrote:1996 MJ was 34 years old. Im talking about from 1991 to 1993 before retirment when his athletic ability was still there. There is no way the Bulls could be down 24 and Paul Pierce goes to Doc Rivers and says put be on MJ like he did to Kobe in Game 4. It would not work because MJ could create high percentage shots from the post because he was stronger at getting position and as i said played better without the basketball. Kobe had a easy time posting up Ray Allen and the Lakers built the lead from the Celtics having to double Kobe and our shooters were wide open. Once Pierce got on Kobe it was harder to post him up because Pierce is stronger.

MJ could post Pierce up because he's stronger then Kobe

Okay so pierce asked doc to guard kobe. He still had lots of help. The scheme was to clog the lane anyway,so it's not like pierce was on the island by himself. The extra man never failed to come over when kobe had the ball. He got by pierce a few times,but the second and sometimes third guy was always there.

Speed and the ability to play without the ball

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GcH18iA_GDY& ... re=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA& ... re=related

Pass and quickly cut. Dont over dribble

Phil_2.0 wrote:Those that continue to go back and forth about this argument are the ones that further make these comparisons. Its silly.

Let Kobe be Kobe. He doesnt need to be like Mike.

stop

You are right and I am sorry if I am fanning the flames of this arguement. In all honesty I would rather kobe be himself,and continue to do what he does. Yet if he had to be like a player I would want him to be like magic. The guy who dominated the greatest decade in basketball history imo.

Critics have been poo-pooing the Jordan comparisons ever since Kobe came into this league, and guess what, 12 years later, it's still going on.

I don't give a rat's ass about Michael Jordan or the people who keep trying to deny Kobe his right to be himself and pursue his own destiny.

And no offense, Mikey, but "the damage has been done to Kobe's legacy"?

How do you figure that? Jordan was a perennial loser until he got Pippen and the other role players, Phil Jackson, etc. and won championships, after which he became a winner and a legend.

There will never be another Jordan. There will never be another Kobe. There will never be another Mike Penberthy. These are different players, in different eras, on different teams, in different leagues, with different careers. Jordan did it his way. Kobe's doing it his way.

If you want to talk about the Jordan mystique, I agree, it is highly unlikely that Kobe will ever capture the world's imagination like Jordan. But Jordan lived in a unique time and situation when the world was experiencing rapid globalization, when politicians, corporations, advertising firms, communication agencies, and the media all joined hands to propel global capitalism. Moreover, the media culture was also different, and Jordan was respected, shielded, and adored, portrayed and sold as an American idol. David Stern used all his resources to recover from Magic's AIDS image crisis and quickly pimped Jordan as the face of the NBA. As the legends Bird and Magic left the league, Jordan monopolized the scene.

That will never be duplicated. Which is why Lebron and his henchmen are looking to China.

Many would cite the Colorado case as a major blow to Kobe's image, and they're right.

Kobe has a terrible public image. He'll never be the advertising and cultural icon that Jordan was. He'll NEVER receive the respect and adulation that Jordan received.

But who cares? I wouldn't buy Hanes because Jordan, or Kobe, or Obama told me to buy a pair. They're crappy underwear. I wouldn't shoot somebody to steal their Jordans. I wouldn't drink Vitamin Water even if Lebron made a good commercial. I care about basketball.

Kobe's the here and now, he's going to turn 30 in a couple months, and he has a lifetime of basketball left in him. And this Laker team that's going to open up this fall will be the arguably the best team in the league - for the next 5+ years. Why do we care about Jordan? I care about Kobe and the Lakers. This is our future, our legacy that's being written.

But hey, you wouldn't be the first to bury Kobe. People have tried to bury him his entire life, from his teenage years in Italy to the present setback in the Finals. And you wouldn't the first to be proven wrong. Kobe has a nasty habit of making people eat their words.

Jordan is obviously the greatest to have ever played, but I don't think he could have beat the Celtics withthe same laker squad. The lakers weren't tough enough. It was basicall 1 against 5. That just wore Kobe out completely. After kobe's career is over he'll be considered the best to have ever play. All the basketball experts already say Kobe is a better Offensive player than Jordan and is as good a defender when he wants to be. I think the only thing holding Kobe back is that he's not as open. Everyone loves Jordan.

Im just replying to the topic. I can care less about MJ either, but it doesnt hurt to have 4.3 speed in the 40 yard dash and a 43 inch vertical with great fundamentals. Many players with that type of athletic ability are not very fundamental. They think they can dribble through 3 and 4 defenders which makes it easier to defend them. MJ used his quickness without the ball which is how you defeat a team ganging up on you.

MJ quickly cutting from the 3 point line there is no way Paul Pierce would have stayed with him and either Lamar and Gasol being willing passers he would have gotten it back. The NBA Zone is not hard to beat if you play without the basketball.

The biggest difference between MJ and Kobe is that Jordan's teams played team defense. They were able to shut teams down. Kind of like what the C's did with the Lakers.
The MJ/Kobe comparison arguments are weak because their respective teams differed so much in how they palyed D and executed the offense.
It is one thing to compare the individual abilites of these 2 atheletes (which IMO are pretty close).
But to extrapolate championships won to which individual is better, ignores the types of teams they were on, and is therefore a poor argument.
It is ridiculous to assert that since MJ won 6 rings, that "Kobe will never be as good"

Let Kobe be Kobe. The greatest player on the planet at this time. That is good enough. He does not need to be compared to anyone.