RealGM

Ok. So I've been in discussion with the Chicago fans about a potential deal to find us a better fit at SF & PG. I figured with them offering Deng a deal & not gordon, they obviously don't have him in their future plans. Also with Deng getting 70 mil, there's no way they're paying 7+ mil per for his backup. Basically it boiled down to them being interested in either:

S&T Ben Gordon (starting at 9-10M per)
Drew Gooden
Andres Nocioni

for

Lamar Odom
Jordan Farmar
Luke Walton(some of them asking for Ariza instead)

Now the kicker.. They are also willing to replace Gordon with Hinrich.

The reasoning for Nocioni & Gooden is obvious.. Noc is a better 3 point shooter/mid range shooter/defender than Odom at the 3. Odom is obviously the more talented player but I think Nocioni is a better fit here with Bynum & Pau down low. Ok so now we run into the problem of the backup PF minutes Lamar would have seen. That's where Gooden comes in. He's not quite the player Lamar is, but he's certainly no slouch at the PF position. He could start for alot of teams.

My question to you is this. Which guard do we need more?

?????????/fisher
Kobe/Sasha
Nocioni/Ariza/Vlade
Pau/Gooden
Bynum/Mihm/(Mbenga?)

Who fits better in that spot, Hinrich or Gordon?

Hinrich is the prototypical triangle PG.. Tall, good shooter, good defender, good passer, good handles, high bball iq.

Gordon is a pure scorer. He isn't a bad passer (3 apg at sg) Not the defender Hinrich is, doesn't have the bball iq or the handles, but when it comes to shooting.. He makes more 3's at a higher percentage than Hinrich. Last year he made 50+ more 3's than Hinrich while also shooting 6% higher(41%). He also shoots a higher percentage on midrange shots. He also has the ability to take over a game if he needs to, which could come in handy the way Pau likes to disappear at times. He can create his own shot better than Kirk aswell.

So my question is do we need the more traditional PG in Hinrich or the scorer in Gordon?

Also let me know what you think about the deal. I don't think there's any other deal out there where we can upgrade PG, find a better fit at SF & gain much needed quality depth in the front court. Nocioni won't put up Odom numbers, neither will Gooden. But between the 2 of them they replace his production & then some, while also adding depth. As far as the Farmar - Gordon/Hinrich upgrade I don't think I even need to speak on that. anyway, opinions?

I would take Hinrich. Thank You

WITHOUT QUESTION I want the one that cuts his hair with a spoon. BTW he is one of the few that gives DWade problems.

I wouldn't make the trade you have on the board.If we worked something else I would take Hinrich (Phil likes big guards).

10mill per for Gordon?

How? Why?

According to a Chicago article, Ben Gordon's agent is looking for 13 mil a year, we probably won't take in both Hinrich's and Noc's contract let alone Ben Gordon and Noc. Value wise Gordon is a shooter off the bench and doesn't do much else. Ignoring the luxury tax situation Gordon would only makes sense if Vujacic wasn't resigned.

Hinrich > Gordon.

Hinrich in a heartbeat

Ill take....

Odom

can you somehow include vlade!?

Phil_2.0 wrote:Ill take....

Odom

Will chicago be able to sign ben gordon if lakers take hinrich? otherwise, I don't understand why chicago would want to get rid of gordon over hinrich. Gordon fits their needs of a SG with derrik rose, deng, tt, and noah. Having hinrich is redundent and will go the way of toronto (ford + calderon) which leads to bickering and eventually will have to be traded.

Hmm okay 2 dilemmas:

1.) Odom will probably have to leave after 1 year left, because the lakers can't afford to give bynum extension and try and keep odom at 14 mil unless odom takes a large paycut which is unlikely.

2.) If we get nocioni and hindrich thats 18 mil contract and both have long 4-5 year contract, so it will lock lakers up over the cap to be unable to sign bynum. So we have to get Gooden as expiring to just dump his salary and the only player we really would be willing to dump is walton or vlad (both having their poison, one is longer the other is more overpaid)... so if chicago takes one long contract of vlad and maybe one additional player that they would like (ariza or farmar) this actually could work. Because Gooden will be free agent next year and that 7 mil freed + 2.5 mil from mihm (below) can be used to extend bynum. I've included mihm to make the salaries more even... that's just a matter of if Buss is willing to pay 2 mil extra this year or not, so take Mihm out if want. He's expiring for lakers and will be dumped next year anyway.

Chicago Bulls

Incoming Players
Photo: Vladimir Radmanovic
Vladimir Radmanovic
Salary: $6,049,400 Years Remaining: 3
Photo: Chris Mihm
Chris Mihm
Salary: $2,500,000 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Lamar Odom
Lamar Odom
Salary: $14,148,596 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Trevor Ariza
Trevor Ariza
Salary: $3,100,000 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Andres Nocioni, Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich
Los Angeles Lakers

Incoming Players
Photo: Andres Nocioni
Andres Nocioni
Salary: $8,000,000 Years Remaining: 5
Photo: Drew Gooden
Drew Gooden
Salary: $7,151,183 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Kirk Hinrich
Kirk Hinrich
Salary: $10,000,000 Years Remaining: 4

Outgoing Players: Vladimir Radmanovic, Chris Mihm, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

that probably won't fly with most chicago fans, but if they like that... im down with it. Honestly I don't even know if lakers can sign both farmar and ariza if lakers take on 18 mil contract and probably be stuck in this years dilemma with Turaif and losing one of them and even sasha took less than what he was offered overseas. Not sure if I'm willing to give both farmar and ariza... farmar right now is valuable to lakers and the future so thats why we trying to keep him.

The only issue is money... is that enough? gooden + mihm and extending farmar as low as possible to keep bynum? or maybe i'm doing something dumb and it doesn't work.

i would take Hinrich and Nocioni for Odom, then trade Luke or Vlad for a second round pick


Hinrich- Farmar/Fish
Kobe - Machine
Nocioni - Ariza
Pau - ???
Bynum - Mihm

shortodom wrote:i would take Hinrich and Nocioni for Odom, then trade Luke or Vlad for a second round pick


Hinrich- Farmar/Fish
Kobe - Machine
Nocioni - Ariza
Pau - ???
Bynum - Mihm

and what team is going to take walton or vlad for 2nd round pick? if they could then lakers would have done that before letting turiaf walk.

That second round pick stuff only applies to guys who will have a significant role like Camby.

More likely is the Phoenix trade type - give away the player AND two 1sts to take him.... like Kurt Thomas to Seattle.

Unfortunately the Lakers have no picks to toss in to get a Luke or Vlad out so that is out the window.

,

Neither if it costs me Odom.

tkb wrote:Neither if it costs me Odom.

will someone please answer if lakers can really sign ariza, farmar, bynum, and odom next year (all 1 year expiring and only players to dump are mihm and coby karl making 2.6 mil together)? Otherwise I say we need to do something... not right away, but atleast by trade deadline.

Now that CHI will have over 100 mill invested in several years of Small Forward play, it's magic wand time. They have to be worried about costs (and Ben Gordon still sitting there to be extended).
.

daddyfivestar wrote:Now that CHI will have over 100 mill in several years of Small Forward play, it's magic wand time. They have to be worried about costs (and Ben Gordon still sitting there to be extended).
.

sadly our magic wand is on vacation.

I think hinrich would be a good fit since PJ loves tall guards. But at this point after hearing that Houston took the Artest risk, i really dont think we should be looking at any trades unless something spectacular comes out of it. Odom plays well with Gasol so lets see how things turn out when Bynum is entered in the mix. WE need to sign a big, a brian skinner sounds good for the LLE. id like to see another shot blocker that can come in and contribute on the defensive end.

Re: Would you rather have Gordon or Hinrich?

Post by islander009 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:27 pm
I think hinrich would be a good fit since PJ loves tall guards. But at this point after hearing that Houston took the Artest risk, i really dont think we should be looking at any trades unless something spectacular comes out of it. Odom plays well with Gasol so lets see how things turn out when Bynum is entered in the mix. WE need to sign a big, a brian skinner sounds good for the LLE. id like to see another shot blocker that can come in and contribute on the defensive end.

I AGREE,
What's up everybody I'm a rookie over here, just thought I can add a little something to the conversation. I have been reading a lot over here about Odom trades. I don't get it, to me he was a big part of the reason Pau played so well, his direct passing and the automatic chemistry between the two bigs were a HUGE reason our Lakers became such a Pau-er-ful team.Why break that up? In my opinion he had a hell of a season and proved no reason to trade. Of course he did not show up in the finals but name a Laker that did. I think we need to turn our attention to the obvious problem. Luke/Chris/Dj we can certainly do with out them for say a Stromile Swift. The rest of the team jells well and can play different positions and give Phil the chance to play around with the roster. I would not be mad if we can some how pull off Jr. Smith both he and Sasha could run the point for short spurts. Our players are young we have the pieces to longevity, we are young enough to be taught the whole concept of defense instead of trading for something that might work, when we already know this team the way it is does work!

My thoughts in a nut shell

Dalakerbox wrote:Re: Would you rather have Gordon or Hinrich?

Post by islander009 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:27 pm
I think hinrich would be a good fit since PJ loves tall guards. But at this point after hearing that Houston took the Artest risk, i really dont think we should be looking at any trades unless something spectacular comes out of it. Odom plays well with Gasol so lets see how things turn out when Bynum is entered in the mix. WE need to sign a big, a brian skinner sounds good for the LLE. id like to see another shot blocker that can come in and contribute on the defensive end.

I AGREE,
What's up everybody I'm a rookie over here, just thought I can add a little something to the conversation. I have been reading a lot over here about Odom trades. I don't get it, to me he was a big part of the reason Pau played so well, his direct passing and the automatic chemistry between the two bigs were a HUGE reason our Lakers became such a Pau-er-ful team.Why break that up? In my opinion he had a hell of a season and proved no reason to trade. Of course he did not show up in the finals but name a Laker that did. I think we need to turn our attention to the obvious problem. Luke/Chris/Dj we can certainly do with out them for say a Stromile Swift. The rest of the team jells well and can play different positions and give Phil the chance to play around with the roster. I would not be mad if we can some how pull off Jr. Smith both he and Sasha could run the point for short spurts. Our players are young we have the pieces to longevity, we are young enough to be taught the whole concept of defense instead of trading for something that might work, when we already know this team the way it is does work!

My thoughts in a nut shell

well i'm all for keeping odom if we can keep him after this year (takes maybe a paycut) and not lose farmar and especially we need to keep bynum... no point having odom play the whole season just to have him walk because the organization is trying to cut cost with bynum extension or half a season just to be traded and have less time for the team to gel.