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heres my opinion to share--

i think as of now, we are doing the right, safe, and solid thing by hanging on to lamar odom. hes shown that hes extremely capable of being effective in the triangle O with pau gasol. and instead of lamar and pau playing the 4 & 5, respectively, bringing in bynum is gona help us a lot...
lamar is a natural 3 and pau is a natural 4. both played out of their positions last year, especially gasol.
i think our interior defense is gona tremendously improve. and im definately not worried about gasol and bynum occassionally bumping into eachother in the paint. the triangle O is developed in such a way that you can play high post/low post offense.
gasol is able to hit the 15 footer, and what i love about him the most is that hes able to take his man off the dribble, AND FINISH.
bynum is gona be our defensive anchor, as he was before. rebounding wont be a problem, especially if we have a 3man whose like 6'10-6'11(LO). andrew is an average passer for a center, but lamar and gasol are superior passers, as is kobe, obviously.
i dont wana jinx us, *knock on wood* but i seriously believe, if all 5 starters are healthy (fish,kobe,lamar,gasol,bynum) i dont see a single team that can defeat us...no not even the boston celtics.

congrats to kg, allen, and pierce for their championship....but i highhhllllyyyy doubt they'll get another one.
cheers laker fans.

cool, but it wouldn't have been hard to type out experiment would it?, i mean it took me like 30 seconds to figure that out

The only problem I have with Lamar at the three is defense. He's long but he does not have the lateral quickness to keep up with the likes of LeBron or T-Mac. Offensively he can shoot, just not consistently enough. He's not a natural 3. He has a very good post game which he does not rely on enough. He likes being outside more and he is getting his wish by playing the 3 this year. His real spot on a team however, is at the 4. If Phil had told him to keep his @$$ downlow and post up, he could have easily put up at LEAST 18 & 12 a night. Playing outside as the 4th option he'll be closer to 14 & 9.

Has therer ever been a frontcourt as long as this one? If this experiment does work the potential is tremendous. I would consider starting Sasha in the backcourt this year to spread the court and take pressure off of Kobe .Maybe play Odom in the backcourt as well just to facilitate the offense and slash when possible.On D we will be long .Odom will have to work on keeping his man in front of him. I picture him playing guys like Bron,Melo,Pierce.If these guys do get by him there are Twin Towers waiting with length.Don't think about block shots all the time what length does is it alters shots and clogs passing lanes.With a full year playing together our communication will there.Team defense is what we should work on and not put it all on Lamar to stop the great small forwards of the league.

How is Bynum doing? Is he recovering well?

Forget that LO is not the protypical 3 that we look to put in our starting line up. I agree he does not typically play well since he is an incosistant perimeter shooter and he can't defend the smaller quicker 3's mentioned above. He has been most productive playing the 4, getting rebounds and cheap baskets. I get that he drifts in and out of games, has proven to be unreliable when needed most (eg - Finals).

However, if Ariza can develop a consistant shot or if we are able to package something (eg - Walton, Radman) for a depenable forward like Battier or someone like that. Lamar becomes such a HUGE asset in that he will give us tremendous flexibility. I can see him coming off the bench to spell Gasol. Or say Bynum picks up 2 quick fouls - we'd be able to slide Pau to center and LO to the 4. This translates to not really having a any sort of letdown when Bynum or Gasol are rested. This means LO and one of the big 2 will be playing some minutes vs backups. Most teams in the league are not that deep. This is where I see us getting a big advantage as LO is a legitmate baller who is really a starter.

LO's role from a scoring perspective is less of an issue as his scoring won't be needed. Without any pressure to score, I think he will flourish as he won't have to "think" about what he needs to do. Instead, he'll just go out there and play ball.

this is gona be one hell of a season...

plzzzz i just hope there arent any drawback injuries!!!!!!!!!!!

im all for lamar at the 3. his defense isnt that bad against small forwards...previously, hes outplayed players such as shawn marion, kirlilenko, jefferson, etc so hes definately up there...but obviously not with the likes of lebron, pierce, tmac.
i dont think odom will be THAT MUCH of a liability against smaller forwards...hes pretty quick actually, so it shouldnt be a problem for him to stay in front of his man...he just needs to get a bit bulkier.
gasol has the potential to outplay pretty much any power forward in the league(and im not homer'ing) we've seen the best of him vs. other power forwards (kg, dirk, duncan) while he was PLAYING PF, NOT CENTER!! gasol can hit the J, and he can beat ur man off the dribble..he killed camby in the playoffs, and he can do the same to others such as amare.

bynum better come through avging like 16-12 this year.

b shaw20 wrote:Forget that LO is not the protypical 3 that we look to put in our starting line up. I agree he does not typically play well since he is an incosistant perimeter shooter and he can't defend the smaller quicker 3's mentioned above. He has been most productive playing the 4, getting rebounds and cheap baskets. I get that he drifts in and out of games, has proven to be unreliable when needed most (eg - Finals).

However, if Ariza can develop a consistant shot or if we are able to package something (eg - Walton, Radman) for a depenable forward like Battier or someone like that. Lamar becomes such a HUGE asset in that he will give us tremendous flexibility. I can see him coming off the bench to spell Gasol. Or say Bynum picks up 2 quick fouls - we'd be able to slide Pau to center and LO to the 4. This translates to not really having a any sort of letdown when Bynum or Gasol are rested. This means LO and one of the big 2 will be playing some minutes vs backups. Most teams in the league are not that deep. This is where I see us getting a big advantage as LO is a legitmate baller who is really a starter.

LO's role from a scoring perspective is less of an issue as his scoring won't be needed. Without any pressure to score, I think he will flourish as he won't have to "think" about what he needs to do. Instead, he'll just go out there and play ball.

Good post man. The big worry for me with Lamar isn't really D, yet. It might be, but for now I'm thinking his length will be fine on fast 3's with Pau and Drew backing him up near the paint. Perimeter guys might go off on him a bit, but they he could cheat and again.... Drew Pau time. The one big flaw I might have in that logic would be getting Drew and Pau into foul trouble.

Now the big worry for me with Lamar at the 3-
On offense he'll clog us up allowing teams to collapse to the key and play herd defense. We saw this alot vs the Celtics, so that really does worry me. We basically have to have people spreading the floor. With any luck, as you you mentioned, Trevor will show up with a polished up perimeter game.


Bruno- from what we've been told Drew is the opposite of Oden, which is to say lean and ready. Oden is reportedly fat and slow. Of course, what we hear is from a greedy agent trying to score a max contract.

bruno sundov wrote:How is Bynum doing? Is he recovering well?

Ya he's doing fine, he said he cant wait till Christmass.

Corvus Crow wrote:
Good post man. The big worry for me with Lamar isn't really D, yet. It might be, but for now I'm thinking his length will be fine on fast 3's with Pau and Drew backing him up near the paint. Perimeter guys might go off on him a bit, but they he could cheat and again.... Drew Pau time. The one big flaw I might have in that logic would be getting Drew and Pau into foul trouble.

Now the big worry for me with Lamar at the 3-
On offense he'll clog us up allowing teams to collapse to the key and play herd defense. We saw this alot vs the Celtics, so that really does worry me. We basically have to have people spreading the floor. With any luck, as you you mentioned, Trevor will show up with a polished up perimeter game.

I am less concerned about the defense as well. Having Drew protecting the paint (let alone two 7 footers, if LO is at the 3) will make a big difference. We should be ablt to stay in front of shooters and contest perimeter shots more readily.

I am with you on the offensive side.... teams will undoubtedly clog up the lane and dare us to beat them from the perimeter. LO can't do that and that's why I am hoping he would get the alot of his minutes playing the 4. The dude is versatile and a straight up baller... it will be intresting to see how we use him if we do wind up keeping him.

Having the Tri Tower front court will help solve our penetration problems on defense, and that's the biggest key. I actually don't have a problem with Lamar playing the three, he can keep up with a lot of the small fowards in the league, and his length will be sure to bother them and he should be able to drift off a bit to go for blocks and boards. The faster bulkier ones might give him problems, but if they attempt to drive they'll pay in the paint. They'll either have to kick or try to throw up shots against three players over 6'10.

The real thing this does is makes our starting line up more of an interior run offense as opposed to perimeter. Our playoff lineup had Vlad to stretch the floor (Wish he could've actually done his job) so that Kobe could either get a good look at a J, drive, or hit up LO or Gasol in the paint. And of course, having Fisher on the wings to hit the jumpers.

So what I really think is that our bench will be crucial to spreading the floor when they come in. We have Vujacic who will play key minutes, Farmar who can hit from outside and I believe Walton can recover this season and be a potential threat from outside and bang when needed. If Ariza develops his shot this offseason, he'll be key in that as well, we already know he can drive.

iki4life wrote:heres my opinion to share-- i think as of now, we are doing the right, safe, and solid thing by hanging on to lamar odom. hes shown that hes extremely capable of being effective in the triangle O with pau gasol. and instead of lamar and pau playing the 4 & 5, respectively, bringing in bynum is gona help us a lot...
lamar is a natural 3 and pau is a natural 4. both played out of their positions last year, especially gasol.
i think our interior defense is gona tremendously improve. and im definately not worried about gasol and bynum occassionally bumping into eachother in the paint. the triangle O is developed in such a way that you can play high post/low post offense.
gasol is able to hit the 15 footer, and what i love about him the most is that hes able to take his man off the dribble, AND FINISH.
bynum is gona be our defensive anchor, as he was before. rebounding wont be a problem, especially if we have a 3man whose like 6'10-6'11(LO). andrew is an average passer for a center, but lamar and gasol are superior passers, as is kobe, obviously.
i dont wana jinx us, *knock on wood* but i seriously believe, if all 5 starters are healthy (fish,kobe,lamar,gasol,bynum) i dont see a single team that can defeat us...no not even the boston celtics.

congrats to kg, allen, and pierce for their championship....but i highhhllllyyyy doubt they'll get another one.
cheers laker fans.

AGREE 100%

And I really want to see when either Bynum or Pau has the ball in the high post (gets double Teamed) and the other cuts to the basket and gets the feed for a easy dunk! Having true twin towers is going to be awesome...

cashflo wrote:Has therer ever been a frontcourt as long as this one? If this experiment does work the potential is tremendous. I would consider starting Sasha in the backcourt this year to spread the court and take pressure off of Kobe .Maybe play Odom in the backcourt as well just to facilitate the offense and slash when possible.On D we will be long .Odom will have to work on keeping his man in front of him. I picture him playing guys like Bron,Melo,Pierce.If these guys do get by him there are Twin Towers waiting with length.Don't think about block shots all the time what length does is it alters shots and clogs passing lanes.With a full year playing together our communication will there.Team defense is what we should work on and not put it all on Lamar to stop the great small forwards of the league.

There were similar examples:

2008/09 Lakers: 6-10 Lamar Odom/ 7-0 Pau Gasol /7-0 - 7-1 Andrew Bynum.

1985/86 Rockets: 6-7 Rodney McCray/7-4 Ralph Sampson/7-0 Hakeem Olajuwon.

2001/02 Wolves: 6-11 - 7-0 Kevin Garnett/6-10 Joe Smith/7-1 Rasho Nesterovic.

But anyway, I really like not trading Odom for KT/Artest and resulting overall makeup of our team. Regardless of Artest being mental not on correctable Rodman's level, but on uncorrectable Rider's level (and even Phil didn't know how to deal with Rider), we should retain Odom from the simple reason of Bynum being after surgery and not tested as 82-game, at least 30-mpg starter - so we should still have this option of starting LO at 4 and Pau at 5 in case of emergency. Granted, at this stage of his career LO is worse as SF than as PF (worse athleticism and defense than before, while still with suspect jumpshooting), but we should first give a chance to this combo, especially as we're still hoping for Ariza being able from health standpoint to become our designated defender off the bench. I sincerely believe we're able to win a title with this lineup and GO LAKERS!

I think that the Lakers can play match up games with teams. Most nights they can roll out those 3 big guys, but when you we have someone like a Lebron, Pierce, maybe even Turkgolu then switch out Odom and put in Ariza.

I agree that it's on offense is where the struggles may be. It will be interesting to see how Phil and Tex work this out. With the 1st three peat Bulls they had Paxson and BJ Armstrong who were strong 3pt shooters to make defenses pay for doubling MJ or Scottie. Also Grant and Cartwright were good 10-15 ft stand still shooters. The 2nd bulls 3peat had Steve Kerr as the designated pure shooter, Longley was an okay outside shooter for a big man. But the Bulls had an overwhelming athletic advantage over most teams. MJ, Harper, Pippen, and Rodman was just hell to get the ball into the front court. I don't see these Lakers replicating that.

Bynum is a better defensive presence and Gasol at the PF will be a good shot blocking presence. The Lakers have to get their identity down. Are they going to commit to defense with Ariza/Bynum back or to the offense.

Hard to say which way to go. Bynum should open things for the perimeter guys with him hanging around the basket. Gasol is going to have to be more consistent with his jumper because he is the likely outlet for driving players if they can't dish it to Bynum for the dunk.

Maybe just another year of natural improvement for Farmar, Vujacic, Bynum. A whole season with Gasol in the lineup; perhaps VladRad acts right all year and Ariza comes in with a jumper and injury free season. We know what to expect from Fish, Kobe, and Odom. Maybe even put Kobe in the role of what he is on the Olympic team. More of a defensive stopper and allow more offense to go through Gasol, Odom and Bynum......

There will be a few problems playing Lamar at SF... On offense I have a feeling Lamar is gonna be lost out there, not only is he not a good shooter, but he plays his worst when he has a smaller player on him... always has... He gets scared to go into the post because he doesnt wanna get called for an offensive foul and he cant drive around someone who is smaller and quicker than him... Remember in the playoffs this year, he played his worst basketball when the Spurs put Finley on him, and when the Cs put Posey on him... This is a cause for concern

On defense Lamar goes to sleep when guarding perimeter players... Again, remember when the Cs went small with (Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Posey, KG) they killed us... Posey got open jumper after open jumper... Remember that regular season game against Dallas? Lamar kept leaving Dirk open in the 4th which got them back into the game, we ended up winning in overtime, but it never shoulda came to that...

Lamar has lapses on both ends playing the 3

Myth_Breaker wrote:

cashflo wrote:Has therer ever been a frontcourt as long as this one? If this experiment does work the potential is tremendous. I would consider starting Sasha in the backcourt this year to spread the court and take pressure off of Kobe .Maybe play Odom in the backcourt as well just to facilitate the offense and slash when possible.On D we will be long .Odom will have to work on keeping his man in front of him. I picture him playing guys like Bron,Melo,Pierce.If these guys do get by him there are Twin Towers waiting with length.Don't think about block shots all the time what length does is it alters shots and clogs passing lanes.With a full year playing together our communication will there.Team defense is what we should work on and not put it all on Lamar to stop the great small forwards of the league.

There were similar examples:

2008/09 Lakers: 6-10 Lamar Odom/ 7-0 Pau Gasol /7-0 - 7-1 Andrew Bynum.

1985/86 Rockets: 6-7 Rodney McCray/7-4 Ralph Sampson/7-0 Hakeem Olajuwon.

2001/02 Wolves: 6-11 - 7-0 Kevin Garnett/6-10 Joe Smith/7-1 Rasho Nesterovic.

But anyway, I really like not trading Odom for KT/Artest and resulting overall makeup of our team. Regardless of Artest being mental not on correctable Rodman's level, but on uncorrectable Rider's level (and even Phil didn't know how to deal with Rider), we should retain Odom from the simple reason of Bynum being after surgery and not tested as 82-game, at least 30-mpg starter - so we should still have this option of starting LO at 4 and Pau at 5 in case of emergency. Granted, at this stage of his career LO is worse as SF than as PF (worse athleticism and defense than before, while still with suspect jumpshooting), but we should first give a chance to this combo, especially as we're still hoping for Ariza being able from health standpoint to become our designated defender off the bench. I sincerely believe we're able to win a title with this lineup and GO LAKERS!

Dont forget

Bird 6-9, McHale 6-10, Parish 7-0

i don't think he was playing the 3 if he's guarding dirk.

ChocolateThundr wrote:

Myth_Breaker wrote:

cashflo wrote:Has therer ever been a frontcourt as long as this one? If this experiment does work the potential is tremendous. I would consider starting Sasha in the backcourt this year to spread the court and take pressure off of Kobe .Maybe play Odom in the backcourt as well just to facilitate the offense and slash when possible.On D we will be long .Odom will have to work on keeping his man in front of him. I picture him playing guys like Bron,Melo,Pierce.If these guys do get by him there are Twin Towers waiting with length.Don't think about block shots all the time what length does is it alters shots and clogs passing lanes.With a full year playing together our communication will there.Team defense is what we should work on and not put it all on Lamar to stop the great small forwards of the league.

There were similar examples:

2008/09 Lakers: 6-10 Lamar Odom/ 7-0 Pau Gasol /7-0 - 7-1 Andrew Bynum.

1985/86 Rockets: 6-7 Rodney McCray/7-4 Ralph Sampson/7-0 Hakeem Olajuwon.

2001/02 Wolves: 6-11 - 7-0 Kevin Garnett/6-10 Joe Smith/7-1 Rasho Nesterovic.

But anyway, I really like not trading Odom for KT/Artest and resulting overall makeup of our team. Regardless of Artest being mental not on correctable Rodman's level, but on uncorrectable Rider's level (and even Phil didn't know how to deal with Rider), we should retain Odom from the simple reason of Bynum being after surgery and not tested as 82-game, at least 30-mpg starter - so we should still have this option of starting LO at 4 and Pau at 5 in case of emergency. Granted, at this stage of his career LO is worse as SF than as PF (worse athleticism and defense than before, while still with suspect jumpshooting), but we should first give a chance to this combo, especially as we're still hoping for Ariza being able from health standpoint to become our designated defender off the bench. I sincerely believe we're able to win a title with this lineup and GO LAKERS!

Dont forget

Bird 6-9, McHale 6-10, Parish 7-0

Of course, but this combo was still slightly smaller/less athletic/physically weaker than those others.

When he struggled vs smaller guys it was at a different position in a different situation. Often he was the 2nd or 3rd option (sometimes even the first with the bench) and playing at the 4 spot trying to post the smaller player or create offense against them. Not a great position for Lamar to be in.

Let me point out a few things:

1. For those that think that Lamar can't defend outside, I've seen him switch out on to guards before and stay with them. He gets wide and moves fine. He kept Tony Parker from driving and Nash as well a few of the times I've seen him on a guard. The couple times he switched out on Pierce he stayed in his post defense stance and thats why he got beat easily. If he's out on the perimiter full time, he'll be fine imo. I think if he knows his role is to be a perimeter defender, he will be able to concentrate on that more.

2. For those that think the offense will clog and bog down because of his lack of outside shooting I think you are wrong. Look at how well the offense ran when Ariza was healthy. He wasn't an outside threat, he was just slashing and playing away from the ball. Lamar can excel in that and he will create mismatches on his cuts and screens. Occasionally we will need to spread the floor more, but thats what we have Vlad for and the small lineup with Sash and Kobe out at the same time. Lamar is a good enough passer and cutter without the ball that he will be effective, especially as a 4th option, teams will not be able to pay much attention to him and he will often draw the worst defender. He will also have mismatches on the boards and have more opportunities for offensive rebounds. Luke has really struggled with his 3 at times as well and the offense has still worked fine with him in as long as he cuts and moves and makes passes. Lamar will benefit from running the triangle now for 3 years. Also, similar to how his defense is, now that he has a role that requires him (and allows him) to be on the perimeter I believe that he will improve his outside shot enough that it will at least force teams to keep honest, which is plenty enough.

3. Lamar's supposed perimeter lapses. If you noticed in the finals, most of Posey's open shots came from over zealous plays by Sasha and over rotations by Kobe and others. Dirk got screen after screen in the Mavs games. More often then not, those supposed 'lapses' were lapses in team defense, not Lamar.

4. People forget how much better our transition game is with Lamar. Fisher isn't a push it up the court PG and Kobe can't do it all the time. Ariza isn't a handler. Lamar's rebounding and handling take a ton of pressure off Kobe and Fish and really get the running game going at times. Yes there will be times when teams clog the lane and his shot just isn't falling, but we've got players to deal with that. The benefits he brings with transition, and the ability to backup the 4 spot and much more valuable then people think.

The experiment is a good idea imo and we should at least see how it works out. I really think this will give Lamar the freedom and ability to really flourish as the unselfish multi-talented guy he is. Look at how much he improved just by adding Pau to the mix. I thin Bynum will only further take pressure off him and free him up. I think he's capable of being every bit the player Prince is, and if he really works at it this off season he could be a bigger better version of Battier. And if it just doesn't work at all, Lamar can be moved later if necessary. There will be good mid-season deals available I can almost guarantee it.

All I know is, next year is going to be exciting. I'm not saying they will or anything, I'm not even totally sure they'll be better then last year, but what I am saying is this is the first time I've ever felt like that if all the pieces fit right that this could be the best team we've ever seen. Honestly the 72 win Bulls had less talent then this team. Our role players just simply need to step up to the same level as those guys did back then. If they commit to their roles and commit to defense I don't think there is a team that can stop us in all honesty.

That Nicka wrote:There will be a few problems playing Lamar at SF... On offense I have a feeling Lamar is gonna be lost out there, not only is he not a good shooter, but he plays his worst when he has a smaller player on him... always has... He gets scared to go into the post because he doesnt wanna get called for an offensive foul and he cant drive around someone who is smaller and quicker than him... Remember in the playoffs this year, he played his worst basketball when the Spurs put Finley on him, and when the Cs put Posey on him... This is a cause for concern

On defense Lamar goes to sleep when guarding perimeter players... Again, remember when the Cs went small with (Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Posey, KG) they killed us... Posey got open jumper after open jumper... Remember that regular season game against Dallas? Lamar kept leaving Dirk open in the 4th which got them back into the game, we ended up winning in overtime, but it never shoulda came to that...

Lamar has lapses on both ends playing the 3

Although Lamar has his faults, Odom is not the reason why they couldn't beat the Celtics lineup on game 4. KG is difficult to stop in the post, and neither Gasol or Odom has the ability to contain them, plus with the lack of a defensive presence kicking out for 3s became a common event for Laker's opponents. That is the fault of the defense on a team level, not a single individual. About the OT game, I remember, Dirk was shooting 35% before he keeps hitting shots like his life depend on it. Odom shut him down for 3 quarters, that is better than what other defenders can do. Gasol also guarded Dirk for a stretch but was unsuccessful, if Odom gets the blame because Dirk was on fire, then Gasol should be held responsible for not being able to guard Dirk before they switch Odom to him.