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sorry, just had to get that out there. i've been reading some old posts or posts predicting his impact this upcoming season and dude's defense is highly overrated. he's above average at playing the passing lanes, thats about it. this idea that his ability to man up is way better than odom or walton is just crazy. which leads to the extreme underrating of luke's defense.

Agreed. Its not like he's a DPOY candidate. Stan Van Gundy loves playing defense, and yet Ariza saw no time whatsoever. He's iight...but eh.

Luke walton playing defenser? O jeez

I wouldn't say he's overrated that is a bit of a reach but at the same time he's not going to make your All Defensive teams either. But playing with a guys like Kobe and Bynum will help his defense look more aggressive then it really is. With Kobe up top applying pressure and Bynum roaming the middle and shading weak side, passing lanes tend to extend farther then normal allowing guys like Ariza to play it more aggressively.

Trevor is not that bad of a man defender, he has length and speed to cover 3's and 2's efficiently . And I don't agree with him being worse then Walton, your pushing the wrong button dcash4 because Walton is TERRIBLE period I don't care which way you cut the bread on that one. Dude is beaten by every 3 in the league with just their first step alone.

And no he's not better then Odom only because LO has the length in the arms to distract shots. But Trevor can be a better defender given time. And as far as SVG he's not the defensive coach people make him out to be.

no one said walton's was better. i just said ariza's man defense isn't WAY better. its overrated in the sense that people sometimes make it seem like he's a shutdown defender. walton's a crafty defender when he's healthy.

expectations just need to be a little more realistic when it comes to ariza or he'll quickly be in the doghouse like other players that this fanbase expects too much from.

Dcash, Walton dude come on! Ariza is still a young player & I like his defense. Luke gets beat all day every day & easily. Before Trevor got hurt that's what got him into the starting line up. DEFENSE. And how sis Lamar get into that topic? Lamar at this point is a better defender but how does he play into this equation? Man you have to give up that Lamaritus mentallity

How in the hell is Walton crafty ? True Ariza is not a shut down defender but he's still better then Walton weather it's 365 or 366 days of the year period. If Walton was crafty he wouldn't be gettin beat like eggs in a steel bowl at Denny's repeatedly.

DEEP3CL wrote:How in the hell is Walton crafty ? True Ariza is not a shut down defender but he's still better then Walton weather it's 365 or 366 days of the year period. If Walton was crafty he wouldn't be gettin beat like eggs in a steel bowl at Denny's repeatedly.

LOL on the eggs deep3

Remember when Walton locked up PP all series? That was awesome! Walton for President!

dcash4 wrote:no one said walton's was better. i just said ariza's man defense isn't WAY better. its overrated in the sense that people sometimes make it seem like he's a shutdown defender. walton's a crafty defender when he's healthy.

expectations just need to be a little more realistic when it comes to ariza or he'll quickly be in the doghouse like other players that this fanbase expects too much from.

Walton may have improved, but I've seen him get absolutely raped before. Most notably Kenny Thomas a few years ago in overtime...he scored 10 straight points posting Walton up. Kenny Thomas, the guy we thought was such dead weight that we wouldn't even trade Lamar for Artest.

I agree that Ariza has not had the best man-to-man defensive showing...but I will say he has the potential to turn into a very good wing defender. He has the anticipation already, along with the athleticism and body-type. You're right in that he's not there yet, but he's young.

And, IMO the Lakers' future heavily relies upon his development as a wing-defender. Lamar appears to be gone after this season. Luke and Vlad are either injured or recovering from brain injury. Kobe is already guarding all 5 players as the center fielder...The Lakers have put a lot of eggs into this basket.

I still have hope for Trevor's development.

LOL at blaming Luke for Paul Pierce... he played 11 mpg in the finals.. I dont remember anyone complaining bout his D when he was playing 25 mpg in the first round... Luke is not a horrible defender like Vlad Rad.. Luke is an average defender... Ariza is slightly above average... He's not great but he is probably our 2nd best perimeter defender... Here is how I see it

Walton - average perimeter D, average post D
Ariza - above average perimeter D, average post D
Odom - below average perimeter D, above average post D
Radman - below average perimeter D, below average post D

crazyeights wrote:Walton may have improved, but I've seen him get absolutely raped before. Most notably Kenny Thomas a few years ago in overtime...he scored 10 straight points posting Walton up. Kenny Thomas, the guy we thought was such dead weight that we wouldn't even trade Lamar for Artest.

Well yeah, Thomas is a PF, Luke is a SF

Walton being a craft defender is as big a myth as Ariza being an elite one. The only difference between Walton and Radmanovic is that Luke tries and Radman doesn't even bother. Luke is a fundamentally sound basketball player but he has far too many limitations physically to be consistently good at something and the main problem is his ankle injuries.

He was at his effective best when he was able to shoot the 3 consistently and unfortunately he can't play Boris Diaw all season long to get post up opportunities.

yea, ariza's D isnt superb, but its good.
i think he fits in well with our style of basketball, especially on the fastbreak...

atleast hes better than brian cook.

ha, the luke hate is strong. people criticizing points that were never even made just to take a shot at him.

iki4life wrote:yea, ariza's D isnt superb, but its good.

agreed. hopefully people don't expect him to go out there and suffocate his opposition like they thought he'd do to paul pierce.

yea i think his d is a bit overrated

hes a decent defender but what makes his d a bit above average is because hes very athletic hes long and he hustles too

and hes still young so it will proly still improve

Ariza doesn't move his feet on defense. He plays the passing lanes well, but he doesn't cut off penetration, he doesn't have the strength or the quickness.

He's a good defensive play against tall shooters. But quick, strong players will go right past him.

Ariza is a taller Smush Parker without an attitude problem.

Does Ariza not stay infront of his main guy because he's afraid to get screened? That just shoots the Smush analogy out the window.

I'm sure that someone can produce a PER stat defense that shows Odom is better than Artest at defense on SF''s but that does not make it true in a game. Walton is very effective against certain SF's and not so much against others. Its the coach's job to exploit the matchups, not Waltons. Here's to hoping that Walton is 100% healthy for next season because I thing alot of us will be surprised if he is.

microfib4thewin wrote:Does Ariza not stay infront of his main guy because he's afraid to get screened? That just shoots the Smush analogy out the window.

Ariza gets caught on screens (because he doesn't move his feet) and Parker doesn't try (because he doesn't feel like he's getting help). Result is the same though.

If you remember Smush Parker, he had very good hands and played the lanes well. That's Ariza. Parker actually has a very good talent and stealing the ball straight up too.

But both have a problem with build. Neither has the strong core and legs for the proper footwork and speed on defense.

If you look at Kobe, he gets low to the ground, yet has excellent lateral movement. If you ever played basketball, you'd know that 1) that burns like hell 2) you have to be immensely strong to keep that up.

I've noticed more perimeter players on Team USA playing that kind of defense, particularly Dwayne Wade, who seems to have taken Kidd and Kobe's example to heart.

For Ariza to become a better defender, he needs to work out.