Who is the best scorer in laker history?

[ronnymac2]

Who's the best overall scorer in laker history? Some possible players could be Elgin baylor, Jery West, Kareem, goodrich, magic, worthy, shaq, and kobe? If you think about it, wilt too, because though his volume drastically decreased while with us, his fg% was amazingly high. Argue George Mikan, too, if you like. Don't count mcadoo; his prime scoring years obviously weren't with the lakers.

[Chubby Chaser]

Prolific Scorer I'd have to give it to Kobe with his various ways of scoring. But just pure points and best Lakers scorer of all time, I'd have to give the nod to Kareem.

[DubaLakers]

Chubby I need your email for the invite

[B-Scott]

1. Kareem
2.Jerry West
3 Kobe

[SashAlex]

1. The "Clutch"
2. The "Skyhook"
3. The "Black Mamba"

[Slava]

1. Kareem (the greatest scorer in NBA history imo, may be other than Wilt), had an unstoppable offensive go to move in the sky hook along with some of the best variety of hook shots ever.

2. Jerry West (as good a scorer as Kobe and slightly more efficient).

3. Shaq & Kobe (Shaq was the most dominant scorer in the NBA at his prime and Kobe's scoring prowess as well as offensive variety is well known).

[Slava]

Sash!

[tkb]

Don't really get why people are picking Kareem here. His six best scoring seasons were with Milwaukee and he only scored over 27 ppg once as a Laker. My top 5 would probably be (not ordered) Kareem, Kobe, West, Baylor and Shaq. Wilt would make my top 5 list if he wasn't so focused on defense, rebounding and passing that he only averaged 17.65 ppg as a Laker. Going through the 5 I picked:

Shaquille O'Neal
Points per game - 27.03 (2nd)
Total points - 13,895 (7th)
Best season, average - 29.67 (11th, 4 top 25 seasons)
Best season, total - 2,344 (7th)
Single game high - 61
60 point games - 1
Scoring efficiency, career (TS%) - 58.1%

Elgin Baylor
Points per game - 27.36 (1st)
Total points - 23,149 (3rd)
Best season, average - 38.25* (1st, 4 top 25 seasons)
Best season, total - 2,719 (2th)
Single game high - 71
60 point games - 5
Scoring efficiency, career (TS%) - 49.4%
* Only played 48 games, so didn't qualify for league leaders. Season has been counted here regardless.

Jerry West
Points per game - 27.03 (3rd)
Total points - 25,192 (1st)
Best season, average - 31.34 (6th, 6 top 25 seasons)
Best season, total - 2,476 (4th)
Single game high - 63
60 point games - 1
Scoring efficiency, career (TS%) - 55.0%*
* No 3p-line.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Points per game - 22.12 (6th)
Total points - 24,176 (2nd)
Best season, average - 27.74 (21st, 1 top 25 season)
Best season, total - 2,275 (12th)
Single game high -
60 point games - 0
Scoring efficiency, career (TS%) - 60.2%

Kobe Bryant
Points per game - 24.96* (4th)
Total points - 21,619 (4th)
Best season, average - 35.40 (2nd, 6 top 25 seasons)
Best season, total - 2,832 (1st)
Single game high - 81
60 point games - 4
Scoring efficiency, career (TS%) - 55.7%
*Started career right out of high school.

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Some other regular season franchise records, points:
Most points, half - 55, Kobe Bryant
Most points, quarter, 30, Kobe Bryant (twice)
Most points, rookie game - 55, Elgin Baylor

Other players with 60 point games as a Laker:
Wilt Chamberlain - 2 (includes a 66 point game which is 3rd highest single game total in franchise history)
George Mikan - 1

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So, ranking the top 5. I'll go:

5 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4 - Elgin Baylor
3 - Jerry West
2 - Kobe Bryant
1 - Shaquille O'Neal

I'm really torn between Kobe and Jerry West, but I do think Kobe will separate himself with a considerable margin within the next few years. They are very similar in volume if you give Kobe a free pass for the first seasons because of coming right out of high school. Kobe was slightly more efficient as a scorer overall, but West didn't have the 3P-line to boost his scoring efficiency. Kareem's lack of peak volume and Baylor's lack of efficiency keep them out of the top 3 for me.

[b shaw20]

David Rivers

[laduane1]

Kareem, Kobe, West, Magic, Wilt

[LA Kobe]

The best Scorer in Lakers history is Kobe. He is a threat in ervery position and place when he has the ball. He can dominate any defender. He is just the best player in the NBA hands down.

[tkb]

If you argue that Kobe has the most diverse repertoire of offensive scoring moves, I'm not going to argue with you. Kobe is the most versatile scorer in Lakers history without too much doubt.

However, I don't think Shaq's combination of peak volume and incredible efficiency can be ignored here at this point.

I will say though, that I will place Kobe at nr 1 if he can average over 25 PPG on better than .560 TS% for the next 2 years which would give him the all time lead in career points for the franchise. Until then, he's 2nd or 3rd on my list.

[milesfides]

Kobe. Shaq was a great post scorer (as was Wilt and Kareem), certainly they were dominant in the paint, but best scorer?

Kobe has a complete offensive game, from the three-point line to the midrange to the post. Add free throw shooting as well. Add creativity, ability to create shots, finish with contact, clutch factor, and really, it isn't that close. Jerry West was perhaps a better shooter than Kobe, but in everything else - athleticism, finishing at the basket...one would be hard-pressed to argue that West was better.

How can Shaq be considering a better scorer than Kobe when he was a game-changing liability at the free throw line? There's a variety of ways to score, but Shaq's scoring repertoire was relatively limited.

Kobe career scoring average is hardly an indication of his scoring ability, since his minutes were limited early in his career as well as deferring as the second option to Shaq. If Kobe came into this league and was handed the reins to a team like a Jordan, Lebron, is there really any question he would have easily averaged at least 30 points a game every year? Is there really any question that he would have broken many more scoring records?

When Kobe was given the green light and surrounded by at least an average supporting cast under a stable coach, what resulted was an 81-point game (that many argued quite convincingly was a superior feat to WIlt's), a 50-point streak, a 40-point month, and a 35-point season.

Eventually I foresee a semantic argument regarding the definition of scoring, but as long as the discussion is free from any particular bias (e.g., field goal percentage or career scoring average), I can't reasonably name any Laker who can match Kobe's overall ability to score.

Yes, Kobe started off slowly as mandated by the coaching staff, yes, in the past couple years Kobe has chosen to hold back for the betterment of the team. Those affect statistics, but it doesn't affect those who can see beyond mere numbers.

Even this summer, what happened when Team USA needed somebody to score? Did Lebron take over the game because he averaged more points in the season? Because he had a higher field goal percentage? During all-star games, who do the other all-stars defer to? Players and coaches recognize superior ability - beyond mere numbers.

Kobe along with Jordan are the two most potent, offensively talented scorers in league history, so in the opinion of this humble poster, it's a foregone conclusion who the best scorer in Laker history is.

Not everybody will agree of course, but I find some writers who dare to propose the unthinkable.

"We may conclude Kobe is the greatest scoring force in the league.

Ever."

-Ralph WIley, espn


"Lakers' Bryant simply the best scorer — ever.

Only Kobe. Nobody has ever been this good.

Nobody.

Not Kareem. Not Jordan. Not even Wilt.

He's the greatest scorer to ever play the game."

-Percy Allen, Seattle Times NBA reporter

[tkb]

How can Shaq be considering a better scorer than Kobe when he was a game-changing liability at the free throw line? There's a variety of ways to score, but Shaq's scoring repertoire was relatively limited.

My reason would be that Shaq is capable of scoring close enough to as many points per game as Kobe is, but if you let him use a possession to try and score a point he creates a higher probability to create a point than if you let Kobe use that same possession. And that includes free throw shooting.

Kobe has a more versatile scoring repertoire, I'm not going to argue about that. Kobe is a more skilled scorer than anyone in Laker history. That I'll give him, and I guess you can argue Kobe to be the best scorer based on just that. I won't however, because I think you have to look at efficiency and not just skill set. If you're going to give him a free pass for going to the pros out of high school, I guess you can look at his best 10 year stretch which would give him a 27.7 average. You'd then have to do that for other players of course, and West would stand at 29.0 with similar efficiency, but higher pace.

Until Kobe takes over the all time franchise lead in career points, I don't think I can label him as a better scorer than Shaq was for us yet. Limited game or not, Shaq was still considerably more efficient (even if you include free throws in that calculation). I could see an argument for Kobe over West right now because of league pace factors though, but I'll keep Shaq at nr 1 for now.

Edit: Let me clarify by stating that I have zero doubt that Kobe is the most skilled and talented scorer in Laker history. I just can't look past Shaq's efficiency yet. When Kobe gets the all time lead in Laker points, no one can deny him of the top spot though IMO, because then he will have almost every scoring record save for career average. After further consideration, I'm going to swap West and Kobe on my list giving Kobe the 2nd spot behind Shaq.

[Anklebreaker702]

This ones easy for me, THE CAP! It gets confusing because we are mostly tying the debate down to points in a Laker uniform but only the logo Kobe & Elgin (i think) spent their entire careers with the Lakers. The Cap in his prime was unstoppable & had a shot that could not be blocked & you could go to him in the clutch with last shot or free throws. I'm sure Detroit remembers how clutch of a free throw shooter he was

[Tesla]

Depends on what your talking about.

Scoring Moves? How many ways I can score on you? Kobe. If your talking about moves, skills, range, ways to put the ball in the bucket? no question Kobe. Thats one thing that I think Kobe is up there with anyone that has ever played as well, the guy really has nearly every move and way to put the ball in the bucket at nearly any point on the floor from 27feet in or so.

Efficiency? Kareem. He has had several 60+%TS years, hes a big guy that scores at a pretty high volume, while shooting well from the field AND foul line. On a pure FG% note, Shaq gets a mention as well. HM: Wilts stint with the Lakers is pretty high, he was shooting like 70% from the field, but averaging only 12-15points or so, and not shooting very well from the foul line (50ish% IIRC),

Playoff scorer? Jerry West, In the playoffs scoring wise, only Jordan has him beat.

Innovative scorer? Elgin Baylor. He was MJ, Dr. J, Kobe, Gervin, etc. before they existed. Smooth, glyding to the bucket, leaping, and a flat out scoring machine.

Dominant scorer? Shaq. Can't stop him, won't stop him. Foul shooting, like Wilt, was his weakness, and like almost every big, he needed some kind of entry pass or set up, but when he got the ball near the paint, there was really nothing you could do to stop the man. HM: Wilt (even in his old days) and Kareem.

Volume scoring? No question Kobe. He has the highest single season scoring average adjusted to pace since pace is recorded (since 74 I believe). 35.4 in 05-06, for example adjusted to pace for Jordans 1987 37.1, Kobe averages 37.3 in that number of poss. the Bulls had that year. Thats impressive, and I consider MJ the best scorer of all time.
HM: Baylor

... Wow are we not blessed as Laker fans?

So I don't know... personally I'd say its Kobe, overall, he can pretty much do it all when it comes to scoring. He may not possess the best intangibles, leadership, or pure dominance that we've had in past Laker players, but scoring is one thing, I think even the haters can agree, that Kobe has got down.

[tkb]

This ones easy for me, THE CAP! It gets confusing because we are mostly tying the debate down to points in a Laker uniform but only the logo Kobe & Elgin (i think) spent their entire careers with the Lakers. The Cap in his prime was unstoppable & had a shot that could not be blocked & you could go to him in the clutch with last shot or free throws. I'm sure Detroit remembers how clutch of a free throw shooter he was

Cap in his prime was unstoppable, and probably better than any Laker ever. Problem though is that prime Cap wasn't a Laker.

[Tesla]

Cap in his prime was unstoppable, and probably better than any Laker ever. Problem though is that prime Cap wasn't a Laker.

Thats a misconception that I generally see a lot. Laker Kareem was just as good as Milwaukee Kareem, its just that Showtime Kareem was the older Kareem we associate to Laker Kareem.

Kareem joined the Lakers when he was 28years old...and followed by winning back2back MVP's, take a look at those years.

Roughly:
28/17/5/4/1.5 on 53%fg -, NBA MVP, All NBA 1st, All Defense 2nd

and

26/13/4/3/1 on 58%FG. NBA MVP, All NBA 1st, All Defense 2nd
(Playoffs - 35/18/4 on 64%TS - freakish).

His volume scoring went down a bit as a Laker, but his efficiency went up, and he was every bit as dominant/good in those first 3-5years.

[tkb]

Don't really see the jump in efficiency. FG% isn't a good indicator of efficiency in the first place, so we need to look at his TS% instead. His TS% stayed relatively consistent when he got traded. His last 2 years in Milwaukee and his first for the Lakers were a bit lower than usual, but he was insanely efficient his previous years for the Bucks including 2 years of over 31.5 PPG on better than .600 TS%. He never did anything even close to that for an entire season with the Lakers as far as scoring goes.

Kareem had 5 of his 6 top seasons and his 7th best season as far as volume goes in Milwaukee, and there is no real trace of him getting more efficient in LA that I can see. His best years as a scorer were without question with Milwaukee IMO, and by a good margin.

[Tesla]

Don't really see the jump in efficiency. FG% isn't a good indicator of efficiency in the first place, so we need to look at his TS% instead. His TS% stayed relatively consistent when he got traded. His last 2 years in Milwaukee and his first for the Lakers were a bit lower than usual, but he was insanely efficient his previous years for the Bucks including 2 years of over 31.5 PPG on better than .600 TS%. He never did anything even close to that for an entire season with the Lakers as far as scoring goes.

Kareem had 5 of his 6 top seasons and his 7th best season as far as volume goes in Milwaukee, and there is no real trace of him getting more efficient in LA that I can see. His best years as a scorer were without question with Milwaukee IMO, and by a good margin.

In the playoffs Kareem averaged over 30 twice with the Bucks, and twice with the Lakers. With the Bucks he only had 1 playoff run with over 60%TS, while two playoff runs dropped under 50%TS. Actually two runs with Bucks in the playoffs for Kareem were fairly inefficent. With the Lakers, Kareem had six 60+%TS, and never dropped below 50%TS in any run.

Kareems 5 years with the Bucks (Playoffs) Average(57games)
29.7ppg on 51%FG

Kareems 5 best years with the Lakers (Playoffs) Average (52games)
30.2ppg on 57%FG

In the regular season, Kareem became a better FT shooter with the Lakers, always shooting 70% or better, while he was shooting less than 70%FT with the Bucks half his career there. And as a whole, Kareem was shooting better percentages as a whole, TS% was across the board better as a Laker, although his best seasons with the Bucks are not significantly different.

Kareem wasn't scoring quite as much with the Lakers, but his scoring was still damn good, especially in the playoffs (better than in Milwaukee). He did other things better as well (which I admit this thread isn't about), but Laker Kareem IMO was overall almost just as good of a scorer. If you want to give the edge because of pure volume in the regular season to Milwaukee Kareem, thats totally understandable and probably right; however, Laker Kareem isn't that far off at all IMO, especially with playoffs/efficiency taken into account.