Giant Elephant in the Room

vinnycorleone · Post #1 » by **vinnycorleone** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 6:50 pm

I think most of the fans on this board have come to terms that If the Lakers don't improve defensively...they will not win an NBA Championship.

There's a giant elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about and that is Kobe Bryant.

I'm a Kobe fan. My favorite player in the world. BUT has anyone been getting sick of his "rover/safety" defense that he plays? I mean he gambles so much and it seems that everynight the guy he guards has a career high.

Individual 1 on 1 D. Kobe can shut down anyone. However his TEAM DEFENSE is horrible. I mean he gets a couple of steals (2 per game if even that). But he probably let's up 5 uncontested layups per game.

Why is he doubling 30ft from the basket? When his guy cuts to the weak side...why does he stay on the strong side? He gets back door-ed more than anyone on our team. Atleast 3x a game I see him give a "My Bad" to the bench for his defensive lapses.

Do you guys agree or am I smoking too much?

magic1fan · Post #2 » by **magic1fan** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:07 pm

you're smoking to much...

MasterRyu · Post #3 » by **MasterRyu** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:12 pm

I do agree that sometimes Kobe makes bad double team decisions. I've seen several open layups or cuts done by the guy he should be guarding. But a lot of times, it only happens when he's guarding someone who isn't consistently a threat. So he likes to roam in that situation. Give him a Paul Pierce or Lebron James, and he will stick to his man like glue.

That Nicka · Post #4 » by **That Nicka** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:13 pm

Maybe this is just me. But we have all seen that the Lakers CAN play good defense - when they want. And we usually only see them play it against good teams. It seems to me that Phil literally tells them to take it easy on D some nights and not to over exert themselves... I could be wrong, but it is the only explanation I have as for why we can crush teams like San Antonio, play good D against Boston etc. but teams like NY, Indi, Sac etc can stay with us seemingly effortlessly. It seems like Phil knows that we wont meet these teams in the playoffs so he just tells the guys to only play on the offensive end as not to wear themselves out...

Considering how deep and talented we are, this seems like a pretty good strategy because we have enough depth to basically coast through the regular season and still get #1 seed in west while saving some energy for the playoffs. It might come back to hurt us though in terms of Home Court throughout the playoffs but perhaps the conserved energy is more valuable than Home court, and of course there is the possibility that we can get both. I'm sure we will tighten up down the stretch of the season. Phil is a smart guy, I'm sure he knows what he's doing

Desiderium · Post #5 » by **Desiderium** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:15 pm

when you score as much as kobe, its tough to be strong on both sides. yeah i do see the need for improvement on his team Defense, but its not as bad as other players (radmanovic, etc). it would be tough for him to both be the defensive stopper and a force on offense. its a marathon season, u gotta pace urself

Post #6 » by **Danny Darko** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:22 pm

I think if anything Kobe is actually spending more energy chasing and would be more rested and effective on D if he stuck to the perimeter more and stopped the roving. He gives up alot of open 3's... that requires the interior defenders to be able to collapse the paint better than we have been, though.

Post #7 » by **semi-sentient** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:40 pm

He does double too much, but the reason that his flaws jump out are the same reasons that everyone elses does: our team defense sucks dick.

I don't know if this is an issue with coaching (yeah, probably) or if we simply lack the personnel (yeah, that too), but I think that something does need to change if we are to be successful in June. All this talk about playing defense when we want to is nonsense IMO. We are fighting to have home-court advantage in the Finals, so we should want to every single night. Seriously, where was our dominant defense against Orlando? When we lost in San Antonio? Houston? New Orleans? These are all teams that we should have supposedly gotten up for but didn't. Enough of this talk about us being a great defensive team when we want to be. That simply isn't true.

So, in short, we're just not a top defensive team. Great offensive team (the best, in fact), but not so much on the other end. We have Pau Gasol anchoring the paint for crying out loud, so the unfortunate reality is that we're going to get even worse from here on out unless something amazing happens. I think this is why so many of us here put the pressure on Andrew that we do -- because we realize he is our only chance at becoming a dominant defensive team. We damn sure aren't going to get any solid defense from any other FC position.

RASMARX · Post #8 » by **RASMARX** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:47 pm

I agree. Trade Kobe for Ben Gordon.

hermes · Post #9 » by **hermes** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:01 pm

Awwwwwww

could be worse, he could play defense like Vlad

Erik Eleven · Post #10 » by **Erik Eleven** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:06 pm

That Nicka wrote:Maybe this is just me. But we have all seen that the Lakers CAN play good defense - when they want. And we usually only see them play it against good teams. It seems to me that Phil literally tells them to take it easy on D some nights and not to over exert themselves... I could be wrong, but it is the only explanation I have as for why we can crush teams like San Antonio, play good D against Boston etc. but teams like NY, Indi, Sac etc can stay with us seemingly effortlessly. It seems like Phil knows that we wont meet these teams in the playoffs so he just tells the guys to only play on the offensive end as not to wear themselves out...

Considering how deep and talented we are, this seems like a pretty good strategy because we have enough depth to basically coast through the regular season and still get #1 seed in west while saving some energy for the playoffs. It might come back to hurt us though in terms of Home Court throughout the playoffs but perhaps the conserved energy is more valuable than Home court, and of course there is the possibility that we can get both. I'm sure we will tighten up down the stretch of the season. Phil is a smart guy, I'm sure he knows what he's doing

My heart says you're right but my brain says Kobe and all other Lakers double too much. Hmm, which to trust?

vinnycorleone · Post #11 » by **vinnycorleone** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:27 pm

I'm glad someone agreed with me!

Phil Jackson is the best at getting his teams ready for the playoffs...no doubt about it. But if you wanna use that "conserving energy" theory. Now that Bynum is out and we've played NY, TOR (horrible defensive games)...are we expected to turn it on tonight against Boston without playing a solid Defensive game with out AB17?!

They need to stop doubling guys who have never commanded a double team in their lives. I remember one game against Indiana we doubled Rasho Nesterovich. Yesterday against Toronto we doubled Bargnani.

Why? Why not stay true to your D and play these weak guys straight up. If they make a basket on a 1 on 1 contested shot then so be it. I dunno all I can say is..I'm worried about this team.

Frantik · Post #12 » by **Frantik** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:41 pm

basic basketball: find the open man. any NBA team should be able to do just that.
Basic team defense. Talk to each other, and help out.

Yo Vinny... You talk about team defense and then u criticize Kobe on his man (that is not sticking to your team defense idea). When they are defending as a team, then dont blame Kobe if his men suck. If he has to help out and pay attention to other guys, then teams are going to find the open man.

dude... blame the team, not any one man. They all suck at basic team defense. If kobe only had to worry about one man, then in that case we can say he is one of the best in the league but when youre playing team defense, you need your team to pay damn good attention because...well your man becomes less of a priority as your teammate becomes more of a liability (uhm sasha, and all our PGs that gamble like their lives depend on it).

vinnycorleone · Post #13 » by **vinnycorleone** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:56 pm

Starting SG's in our last couple of games:

Joey Grahm career high 24 points
OJ Mayo 21 points
Randy Foye 27 points
Raja Bell 17 points (3-6 from deep)
Ginobili 27 points in SA...lit is up because Kobe sagged off him all night, went under screens

Make guys accountable for their D. It's not all Kobe's fault...but we are allowed to expect more from him than anyone else.

If you read my first post I said he is a GREAT individual defender...but lacks the sense of team defense. When he's guardin a guy straight up he usually shuts him down. When he doubles and sags off and goes under screens....we get BURNT like TOAST

vinnycorleone · Post #14 » by **vinnycorleone** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:59 pm

p.s. you are absolutely right about our entire team gambling too much. and for god sake's...can anyone take a charge besides D-Fish?

It's like they are allergic to contact

JimMurray · Post #15 » by **JimMurray** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 9:08 pm

You're looking at the wrong elephant my friend. The "real" elephant is the fact that Kobe can opt out after the season, and he hasn't made any commitment to not opting out.

Post #16 » by **Danny Darko** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 9:34 pm

JimMurray wrote:You're looking at the wrong elephant my friend. The "real" elephant is the fact that Kobe can opt out after the season, and he hasn't made any commitment to not opting out.

Meh, it wouldn't surprise me if he opts out and takes a slight pay cut to allow for more talent/keep talent around him.

Post #17 » by **TyCobb** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 10:42 pm

vinnycorleone wrote:I think most of the fans on this board have come to terms that If the Lakers don't improve defensively...they will not win an NBA Championship.

There's a giant elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about and that is Kobe Bryant.

I'm a Kobe fan. My favorite player in the world. BUT has anyone been getting sick of his "rover/safety" defense that he plays? I mean he gambles so much and it seems that everynight the guy he guards has a career high.

Individual 1 on 1 D. Kobe can shut down anyone. However his TEAM DEFENSE is horrible. I mean he gets a couple of steals (2 per game if even that). But he probably let's up 5 uncontested layups per game.

Why is he doubling 30ft from the basket? When his guy cuts to the weak side...why does he stay on the strong side? He gets back door-ed more than anyone on our team. Atleast 3x a game I see him give a "My Bad" to the bench for his defensive lapses.

Do you guys agree or am I smoking too much?

Freakin' Republicans...

JimMurray · Post #18 » by **JimMurray** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 11:04 pm

Danny Darko wrote:
JimMurray wrote:You're looking at the wrong elephant my friend. The "real" elephant is the fact that Kobe can opt out after the season, and he hasn't made any commitment to not opting out.

Meh, it wouldn't surprise me if he opts out and takes a slight pay cut to allow for more talent/keep talent around him.

Oh, I have no doubt thats what he's going to do, but I'm not concerned about him not re-signing with the lakers. However, I do have a slight fear that he's gonna pull a Jordan and opt out so that he can sign with the LA Galaxy.

Kidding....

Sedale Threatt · Post #19 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 11:18 pm

I've pretty much lost all hope that we're every going to play with any sort of constent excellence on the defensive end.

Either because it isn't being stressed by the coaching staff or this is the simply the collective makeup of our roster, we just don't have the kind of mentality to want to really dig in and stop people on a regular basis.

All we can do at this point is keep our fingers crossed that, despite the fact that history that says otherwise, a lack of defensive backbone won't derail our championship aspirations.

DubaLakers · Post #20 » by **DubaLakers** » Thu Feb 5, 2009 11:59 pm

vinnycorleone wrote:p.s. you are absolutely right about our entire team gambling too much. and for god sake's...can anyone take a charge besides D-Fish?

It's like they are allergic to contact

Sasha chasing down the player on the opposing fast break, he runs down the player, then he doesn't do anything but "Ole" the ball handler, uggh, what's the point Sasha, trip him with your hair barrett or something.