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The writer is using these comments from Lakers assistant Jim Cleamons to wage some sort of pissing match with another Knicks blogger, so there isn't much else besides this. But coming as they are from a member of the staff, I find them interesting and insightful. They underscore a facet of our team that hasn't improved nearly as much as I'd have liked, especially with the playoffs on the horizon.

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/200 ... rt-ii.html

"That (Chicago) team had a certain chemistry in that they knew how to help. That’s why we have gone to the scheme we are using this year: guys don’t know how to help — when to come over, when to get out. If these guys understood that schematic then we wouldn’t have to change up. We would have just gotten better at what we did."

"Anyone who watches film and is a student of the game would see that we don't play with the same intensity day in and day out, game in and game out. If you are going to be a championship caliber team, your defense is the one area that doesn't waver. We aren't good enough on a game by game basis to do what we need to do to say that we are going to be accountable in the end. Then, our rotations are not always what I like to call 'on point.' Sometimes, they are nonexistent, sometimes they are a little bit slow.

"If you are a good defensive team, then you play better on the defensive end than you do on the offensive end, because that (defense) is where you are really linked together; (in that case) the team has a feeling of when they have to help and a sense and a presence of how they need to get there so that when the ball moves and flows your defense is not always reacting. You are kind of ahead or you arrive right on the catch so the offense knows that you are there and there are no gaps in your rotations."

yeah, the problem with the lakers is they seem to be fine with just trying to outscore their opponents at times. they can play defense when they want to.................hopefully they'll want to more frequently in playoffs

we really don't take teams we consider inferior seriously. if we played every game like we were playing the spurs,cavs,or celtics we would probably have no more than 5-6 losses right now. kobe and fisher have to take some blame for this. they are the leaders with the championship experience,they should be cracking the whip,especially this late in the season.

Good news: Our defense has played pretty well past couple games.

Bad news: Not good enough, rotations still bad, help always been bad.

I mean, you hope they turn it up in the playoffs, but can we really rely on that? What's it going to take to install that into the players heads? Another year of failure?

After last yr's gm 6 embarrassment it's sad that we can't stay focused to take care of business every night.

If we are talking about defese, my take has always been that Kobe has to lead by example. I understand he has to carry the load on offense most nights. But if truly wants to mentioned in the same sentence w MJ, he has to be more than a free safety.

Frankly, I think he is overrated on D. He is way to skilled to get beat off the dribble by people.

He gambles too much for steals
For his height and length, not enough blks
Since gm vs AI in 2001 I do not recall a shut down D performance

If he just focused on staying in front of his man and bodying up a bit, he would improve immensly I believe. Until then, he can't get on Fish, jfar, Luke or anyone when they get beat off the dribble. (guys cant follow a leader that himself, does not do as he says). They have to hold each other accountable. Waiting on Drew to erase their mistakes is not the answer to the Lakers being an elite defensive TEAM.

The defensive mindset starts with the committment from one Kobe Bryant.

I'm not much concerned by smaller guards blowing by Fisher because that happens all the time but whats been troubling is our inability to box out and keep the defensive glass clean. Last game was particularly troubling given how easily much smaller guys like Josh Boone were getting out backs and offensive rebounds. Both LO and Pau need to be accountable for that.

Pau on the other hand needs to use his length to block some shots. He was practically not rotating at all in the 1st half against Jersey. I can understand the problem with foul trouble and Devin Harris getting any call he wanted to last night bu he started doing a better job altering lay ups in the 2nd half and we clamped down pretty effectively.

Lastly Jordan Farmar has been downright terrible on D. He can't guard a table to save his life and that could be a troubling drop down from the discipline the starting unit tend to show. His offensive sparks now and then are pretty fine but his defense cannot be that much of a liability. Sasha tries hard but he has a tendency to pick up fouls within minutes and put us in the penalty but he at least doesn't give up so that's a bit of a relief even when he's not shooting well.

I agree on Kobe taking a lead though but when he starts playing committed D like he did against Lebron at Staples you can still see how effective he can be. When you start denying the ball to the opposition's star player like Kobe did in that game, that pretty much tips the scales in our favor.

b shaw20 wrote:After last yr's gm 6 embarrassment it's sad that we can't stay focused to take care of business every night.

If we are talking about defese, my take has always been that Kobe has to lead by example. I understand he has to carry the load on offense most nights. But if truly wants to mentioned in the same sentence w MJ, he has to be more than a free safety.

Frankly, I think he is overrated on D. He is way to skilled to get beat off the dribble by people.

He gambles too much for steals
For his height and length, not enough blks
Since gm vs AI in 2001 I do not recall a shut down D performance

If he just focused on staying in front of his man and bodying up a bit, he would improve immensly I believe. Until then, he can't get on Fish, jfar, Luke or anyone when they get beat off the dribble. (guys cant follow a leader that himself, does not do as he says). They have to hold each other accountable. Waiting on Drew to erase their mistakes is not the answer to the Lakers being an elite defensive TEAM.

The defensive mindset starts with the committment from one Kobe Bryant.

Come on man, that's unfair. Look at LeBron twice this season. Look at Dwayne Wade when he played in LA. Kobe hounded from full court. Wade shot like.. 70 percent against Ariza and something like 20 percent against Kobe.

He's shut down Carter, Ray Allen, etc. multiple times over the last couple years. I actually say his defense has improved this season from the last couple years. Early, he gambled way too much. But as the season has progressed, he's defended much better. Starting to gamble too much, but recently, he's gambled right. 5 steals against Chicago, 4 steals against New Jersey, 4 steals @ OKC, 2 steals @ Detroit. He's had 2 or more steals in the past 6 games.

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Another great article (long, but really good).. a lot about the defense and rest. The game plan against New Jersey.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9390 ... the-Lakers

Kobe is getting away with the steals in the past few games is because a lot of reach in fouls are not getting called lately..

TylersLakers wrote:
Come on man, that's unfair. Look at LeBron twice this season. Look at Dwayne Wade when he played in LA. Kobe hounded from full court. Wade shot like.. 70 percent against Ariza and something like 20 percent against Kobe.

He's shut down Carter, Ray Allen, etc. multiple times over the last couple years. I actually say his defense has improved this season from the last couple years. Early, he gambled way too much. But as the season has progressed, he's defended much better. Starting to gamble too much, but recently, he's gambled right. 5 steals against Chicago, 4 steals against New Jersey, 4 steals @ OKC, 2 steals @ Detroit. He's had 2 or more steals in the past 6 games.

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Another great article (long, but really good).. a lot about the defense and rest. The game plan against New Jersey.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9390 ... the-Lakers

TylersLakers wrote:

b shaw20 wrote:After last yr's gm 6 embarrassment it's sad that we can't stay focused to take care of business every night.

If we are talking about defese, my take has always been that Kobe has to lead by example. I understand he has to carry the load on offense most nights. But if truly wants to mentioned in the same sentence w MJ, he has to be more than a free safety.

Frankly, I think he is overrated on D. He is way to skilled to get beat off the dribble by people.

He gambles too much for steals
For his height and length, not enough blks
Since gm vs AI in 2001 I do not recall a shut down D performance

If he just focused on staying in front of his man and bodying up a bit, he would improve immensly I believe. Until then, he can't get on Fish, jfar, Luke or anyone when they get beat off the dribble. (guys cant follow a leader that himself, does not do as he says). They have to hold each other accountable. Waiting on Drew to erase their mistakes is not the answer to the Lakers being an elite defensive TEAM.

The defensive mindset starts with the committment from one Kobe Bryant.

Come on man, that's unfair. Look at LeBron twice this season. Look at Dwayne Wade when he played in LA. Kobe hounded from full court. Wade shot like.. 70 percent against Ariza and something like 20 percent against Kobe.


Tylers L.. dude, you are one of the posters on here which I agree with most of the time. I am not sure which of my statements you refer to when you say it is unfair.

I will assume it is to me calling KB defense overrated. IMO I think some of the media hypes him as being so great (eg the Olympics when he said he wanted to gaurd the best player). I do understand that he can't be expected to carry the load on offense every night and then take on the very best player each night. It would be the equivalent of him doing wind sprints for 35 minutes and no one can do BOTH. All I am saying is that KB is allowed to "roam" and play free safety far too much and his tendancy to gamble often causes the defense to break down.

Each year, I watch almost every game and I can honestly say I do not remember him shutting down a premier scorer. Sure, guys that like to live on the perimeter (Allen, Carter, you mention below) may have a bad shooting night now and then, but its hard to say it was because of KB Defense.

Where was Kobe vs Allen last yr in game 6? or vs Pierce throughout the series?

All I am saying is Kobe does not win his matchup by shutting the other guy down. We know that KB can easily put up his average against anyone, but he should hold the guy he is guarding considerably below his own average and this does not typically happen.

Just look at some of the losses and point put up by KB vs the other team perimeter player:

Heat, KB 28 - Wade 35
Hornets, KB 39 - Paul 32
Spurs, KB 29 - Ginobli 27, Mason 18
Nuggets, KB 29 - JR Smith 22
Blazers, KB 26 - Roy 27


He's shut down Carter, Ray Allen, etc. multiple times over the last couple years. I actually say his defense has improved this season from the last couple years. Early, he gambled way too much. But as the season has progressed, he's defended much better. Starting to gamble too much, but recently, he's gambled right. 5 steals against Chicago, 4 steals against New Jersey, 4 steals @ OKC, 2 steals @ Detroit. He's had 2 or more steals in the past 6 games.

Again, regardless of the fact that he may have picked up some steals as of late. My take is that he should just try and stay in front of his man. The problem with our defense in general is allowing penetration from guard play. We give up too many layups and kick out 3's as a result. Clemons is right in that we do not how to cover each other's back. Too many times, we see a last second attempt to contest a 3 by Trevor, LO, Fish, etc....

Much like Boston followed KG's committment, LA will have to have its own leader show the way. That is all I am saying. Everyone supposedly learned from last year what it takes to win the title. It's troublesome that we are still debating whether or not we ahve improved defensively. It is supposed to be a mindset - heart, effort, hustle.... but I think the issue with us is that we have so much talent on the team that we can win on most nights without having to do the hard work.

We can win despite of ourselves, I do believe. But I will not be surprised if we fail to do so.

However, "IF" and when we ever decide to play GREAT team defense every night. Turn out the lights because it will be game over for the entire league.[b]

b shaw20 wrote:

TylersLakers wrote:

b shaw20 wrote:After last yr's gm 6 embarrassment it's sad that we can't stay focused to take care of business every night.

If we are talking about defese, my take has always been that Kobe has to lead by example. I understand he has to carry the load on offense most nights. But if truly wants to mentioned in the same sentence w MJ, he has to be more than a free safety.

Frankly, I think he is overrated on D. He is way to skilled to get beat off the dribble by people.

He gambles too much for steals
For his height and length, not enough blks
Since gm vs AI in 2001 I do not recall a shut down D performance

If he just focused on staying in front of his man and bodying up a bit, he would improve immensly I believe. Until then, he can't get on Fish, jfar, Luke or anyone when they get beat off the dribble. (guys cant follow a leader that himself, does not do as he says). They have to hold each other accountable. Waiting on Drew to erase their mistakes is not the answer to the Lakers being an elite defensive TEAM.

The defensive mindset starts with the committment from one Kobe Bryant.

Come on man, that's unfair. Look at LeBron twice this season. Look at Dwayne Wade when he played in LA. Kobe hounded from full court. Wade shot like.. 70 percent against Ariza and something like 20 percent against Kobe.


Tylers L.. dude, you are one of the posters on here which I agree with most of the time. I am not sure which of my statements you refer to when you say it is unfair.

I will assume it is to me calling KB defense overrated. IMO I think some of the media hypes him as being so great (eg the Olympics when he said he wanted to gaurd the best player). I do understand that he can't be expected to carry the load on offense every night and then take on the very best player each night. It would be the equivalent of him doing wind sprints for 35 minutes and no one can do BOTH. All I am saying is that KB is allowed to "roam" and play free safety far too much and his tendancy to gamble often causes the defense to break down.

Each year, I watch almost every game and I can honestly say I do not remember him shutting down a premier scorer. Sure, guys that like to live on the perimeter (Allen, Carter, you mention below) may have a bad shooting night now and then, but its hard to say it was because of KB Defense.

Where was Kobe vs Allen last yr in game 6? or vs Pierce throughout the series?

All I am saying is Kobe does not win his matchup by shutting the other guy down. We know that KB can easily put up his average against anyone, but he should hold the guy he is guarding considerably below his own average and this does not typically happen.

Just look at some of the losses and point put up by KB vs the other team perimeter player:

Heat, KB 28 - Wade 35
Hornets, KB 39 - Paul 32
Spurs, KB 29 - Ginobli 27, Mason 18
Nuggets, KB 29 - JR Smith 22
Blazers, KB 26 - Roy 27


He's shut down Carter, Ray Allen, etc. multiple times over the last couple years. I actually say his defense has improved this season from the last couple years. Early, he gambled way too much. But as the season has progressed, he's defended much better. Starting to gamble too much, but recently, he's gambled right. 5 steals against Chicago, 4 steals against New Jersey, 4 steals @ OKC, 2 steals @ Detroit. He's had 2 or more steals in the past 6 games.

Again, regardless of the fact that he may have picked up some steals as of late. My take is that he should just try and stay in front of his man. The problem with our defense in general is allowing penetration from guard play. We give up too many layups and kick out 3's as a result. Clemons is right in that we do not how to cover each other's back. Too many times, we see a last second attempt to contest a 3 by Trevor, LO, Fish, etc....

Much like Boston followed KG's committment, LA will have to have its own leader show the way. That is all I am saying. Everyone supposedly learned from last year what it takes to win the title. It's troublesome that we are still debating whether or not we ahve improved defensively. It is supposed to be a mindset - heart, effort, hustle.... but I think the issue with us is that we have so much talent on the team that we can win on most nights without having to do the hard work.

We can win despite of ourselves, I do believe. But I will not be surprised if we fail to do so.

However, "IF" and when we ever decide to play GREAT team defense every night. Turn out the lights because it will be game over for the entire league.[b]

I agree with you about his free safety role. I hate it, always have. Again, I'm not saying he's the best defensive player in the league every night (he could be if he wanted to), but his defense is good. I definitely hate the free safety role. Over an 82 game season, it's so hard for a person to play amazing defense and carry the load on offense (let's face it; he'll never be a 18-22 PPG scorer while defending every night to the best of his ability).

The issue I didn't like, is that you said that he hasn't shut anyone down since AI in 2001.

In the game in LA against Miami, Wade shot 10-22. He scored a good number of points, but a lot of his baskets came against Ariza (hence TA only playing 14 minutes and being a -8). Erik Spolestra even said after the game that it was the first time he's ever seen anyone guard Wade full court. Kobe was literally attached to him all game.

And again this year in LA, Kobe guarded LBJ for most of the game. James was 9-25.

In Cleveland, James was 5-20 for 16 points.

I agree with you, unfortunately, due to his offensive responsibilities and the type of player he is, he will never be a lock down defensive player every game. He has to pick and choose when to on this team.

Again, I agree with pretty much every point you made except the one where you said he hasn't shut down a player since 2001. That was the part I was calling a little unfair.

The part I wish Kobe would take more seriously (and he can, even with his offensive responsibilities) is his rotations on defense. He usually does a pretty good job, but a lot of the times, just like everybody else on this team, he's asleep at the wheel it seems. Also, instead of playing the passing lanes and being 15 feet off his man, I wish he'd get about 5 feet from his man.

After reading the first paragraph and being a wise vet of the game, that tells me don't expect to win a title...........period or until they commit to the D.

TylersLakers wrote:The part I wish Kobe would take more seriously (and he can, even with his offensive responsibilities) is his rotations on defense. He usually does a pretty good job, but a lot of the times, just like everybody else on this team, he's asleep at the wheel it seems. Also, instead of playing the passing lanes and being 15 feet off his man, I wish he'd get about 5 feet from his man.

The issue for me it's not so much rotations, but the fact that alot of guards get by him with relative ease. It seems that he is on skates. He has all the tools to be a hawk, yet he really isn't one.

Even joe johnson did that today who isn't the quickest of dudes. I agree that he should give space and deny the drive, then use his length to contest jump shots.

In regards to my comment, I was just saying there has not been a signature Kobe perfomance on D that I can recall in recent years, that's all. All the great memories stem from what he did on offense.

Check that, I do recall one in 2004 vs Orlando. McGrady was tourching fab 4 at home, then kb switched on him and put his fire out. KB then proceeded to take every shot for the Lakers and win it on his own.

I recall GP watching in disbelief as KB took over the damn game on his own.

How can I almost forget that?

the defense does start and end with kobe,but to be honest,no one can really shut anyone completely down now. if guys shoot enough they are going to score. also there are to many ticky tack fouls called now in days. i agree with ty that when kobe wants to he could probably be the best defensive player in the game. his defense on wade,and lebron this year was great,but that's what's wrong. he seems to only get up for big names,while d league players have career games sometimes. yet still one guy wanting to play defense does not make your team a great defensive team. odom has never played defense. pau has never been one to play defense,fisher is older,and bynum is out. who on our team besides trevor and kobe are known as defensive players?

magic1fan wrote:the defense does start and end with kobe,but to be honest,no one can really shut anyone completely down now. if guys shoot enough they are going to score. also there are to many ticky tack fouls called now in days. i agree with ty that when kobe wants to he could probably be the best defensive player in the game. his defense on wade,and lebron this year was great,but that's what's wrong. he seems to only get up for big names,while d league players have career games sometimes. yet still one guy wanting to play defense does not make your team a great defensive team. odom has never played defense. pau has never been one to play defense,fisher is older,and bynum is out. who on our team besides trevor and kobe are known as defensive players?

In Miami Kobe was ouplayed by dwade... I was there and it killed me. The bottom line is that anyone who wants to be considered even just a solid defender has to be able to stay in front of his man most of the time. Kobe routinely gets blown by even by guys that aren't quicker than him.

For anyone who has played nba2k9, it's like the freakn game. Nearly impossible.