Shawn Marion wants to play for a winner...

Post #21 » by **milesfides** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:29 pm

Btw, Shawn Marion is terrific at moving without the basketball. He hardly ever had a play run for him in Phoenix. He's all hustle, offensive rebounds, etc. He'd be better than expected in the triangle offense, as long as we run it. His biggest weakness is that of a spot up shooter, yet over his career, he's been better than Odom, Ariza, or Walton at doing it.

Post #22 » by **Kilroy** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:39 pm

I think Marion is a little over-rated...

I think he'd be an improvement over what we have only if he's motivated.

I think it's hard to replace an Odom, and an Ariza that have put it out there that they want to stay in LA with a guy playing for a Championship and nothing else...

Teamwork wins championships and if Marion only buys in for a season, it could really hurt us.

I also think when people say "I want to play for a winning team," I think what they're really saying is "I wanna play with LeBron"... I base that on nothing really, but I just think that's what Marion is really saying. I think we'd be on his list but not first...

DoctaJ · Post #23 » by **DoctaJ** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:56 pm

Depending on the price tag (MLE ish), I'd like him here.

I've been mixed about Marion, though. Like him before he left Phoenix, didn't like him when he left or in Miami but then I started liking him again when he got to Toronto and tried to light a fire under the team and get them going.

But yeah, if the price is good, I think he'd be a good fit.

That Nicka · Post #24 » by **That Nicka** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:05 pm

Screw it... open up your wallet Buss!

Hinrich/Fisher/Brown
Bryant/Vujacic
Marion/Ariza
Gasol/Odom/Powell
Bynum/Gasol/Mbenga

microfib4thewin · Post #25 » by **microfib4thewin** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:15 am

milesfides wrote:Btw, Shawn Marion is terrific at moving without the basketball. He hardly ever had a play run for him in Phoenix. He's all hustle, offensive rebounds, etc. He'd be better than expected in the triangle offense, as long as we run it. His biggest weakness is that of a spot up shooter, yet over his career, he's been better than Odom, Ariza, or Walton at doing it.

There's no denying that he will be a good boost on the SF spot. The problem here is, aside from demanding a huge pay he's also worn out after running with the Suns for 4 years. He can obviously still ball, but injury is a concern, and unlike Ariza, who's 6 years younger, and Walton, who's more reliant on his IQ, an injured Marion will be a much bigger dip from a healthy Marion you would wish you could burn the 10 mil on something else.

Post #26 » by **milesfides** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:40 am

Check out how many games Marion missed over his career; compare that with Ariza and Walton's numbers.

microfib4thewin · Post #27 » by **microfib4thewin** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:25 am

You mean the years when he was with the Suns training staff? Their staff and Detroit's is probably one of the best in the business at keeping their players away from the disabled list. I can't say I have the same faith in the Lakers training staff when they have Mihm play for a month after missing an entire season only to have him take another surgery because they found something wrong with his ankle. How on earth did that happen? I have trouble believing it was due to him playing on court since he wasn't playing much. Until there is evidence to the contrary I am assuming it was a problem they missed during his rehab.

Post #28 » by **Slava** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:34 am

Shawn Marion is one of the most durable players in the league if not the best of all. Agreed that the Phx training staff have been pretty good and also luck plays a part with guys like Grant Hill but Shawn has stayed fit and ready wherever he's played. Ofcourse you cannot guarantee anything and even the most durable players like KG can be susceptible to injury but still Marion is more of a sure thing than Ariza, Walton, Ammo and whoever we play at SF combined.

microfib4thewin · Post #29 » by **microfib4thewin** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:15 pm

Marion already missed 13 games this season. There isn't just one negative aspect, but several. When you combine them together it make sense to be hesitant on acquiring him. He feels so under-appreciated in Phoenix he was relieved to be traded to a bottom feeder, his health status is uncertain, he's 31, he will demand a contract at least twice as large as Walton's, and he relies purely on athleticism. Had he been younger and didn't have a questionable attitude he would be someone I would look for in the offseason.

That Nicka · Post #30 » by **That Nicka** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:04 pm

microfib4thewin wrote:he will demand a contract at least twice as large as Walton's

naw, not if he really "wants to play for a winner" If he means what he says then MLE is all he will get considering thats all any "winner" has to offer right now (Detroit isnt about to blow their wad on him lol)... Unless of course he does a sign and trade, but I really dont see any winning teams trading for him if he has a contract over MLE...

For me, I just dont see Buss paying about 18 mil for 3 SFs (Luke tops out at 6 mil, which is probably about what Ariza will make and Marion will probably get full MLE)... Especially not when Marion and Ariza are so similar

ROB-G · Post #31 » by **ROB-G** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:55 am

he doesn't fit in our system !!!

Dr Aki · Post #32 » by **Dr Aki** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:05 am

ROB-G wrote:he doesn't fit in our system !!!

if ariza fits our system, how doesnt marion?

DEEP3CL · Post #33 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:41 am

Akiho wrote:
ROB-G wrote:he doesn't fit in our system !!!

if ariza fits our system, how doesnt marion?

Because Ariza isn't a volume shooter like Marion, that's why he doesn't fit. You can't sit here and tell me Marion isn't looking to take a lot of shots.

Dr Aki · Post #34 » by **Dr Aki** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:51 am

DEEP3CL wrote:
Akiho wrote:
ROB-G wrote:he doesn't fit in our system !!!

if ariza fits our system, how doesnt marion?
Because Ariza isn't a volume shooter like Marion, that's why he doesn't fit. You can't sit here and tell me Marion isn't looking to take a lot of shots.

yes, i can sit here and tell you marion wont take a lot of shots, but i wont guarantee it

but im sure, as part of negotiations, kupchak and phil will thoroughly explain marion's role within the team, which is play defense and shoot when its the proper time to shoot

if marion wont accept that role, then we let him find another team who will take a chance on him. much the same way kupchak let ronny leave for GSW

there are plenty of players throughout the years who have sacrificed their game in order to become a role player and win championships. if marion isnt looking to sacrifice his game, hes not welcome here

DEEP3CL · Post #35 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:03 am

Akiho wrote:
yes, i can sit here and tell you marion wont take a lot of shots, but i wont guarantee it

I know what type of player he is, been watching him since UNLV. Marion wants to be a major part of an offense, that was his complaint all the time in Phoenix. It was the reason he was jealous of Nash and Amare and the chief reason he wanted out.

Akiho wrote:if marion wont accept that role, then we let him find another team who will take a chance on him. much the same way kupchak let ronny leave for GSW

He won't accept that for most of the reasons I explained in first response. And letting Ronny go had nothing to do with his role, it had to do with finances more than anything. Ronny knew that with Drew coming back his minutes would be limited.......he wanted money period.

Dr Aki · Post #36 » by **Dr Aki** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:15 am

DEEP3CL wrote:
Akiho wrote:
yes, i can sit here and tell you marion wont take a lot of shots, but i wont guarantee it
I know what type of player he is, been watching him since UNLV. Marion wants to be a major part of an offense, that was his complaint all the time in Phoenix. It was the reason he was jealous of Nash and Amare and the chief reason he wanted out.

i thought it was because he thought he was entitled to be a major part of the offense seeing as he was there since 1999 and felt left out

DEEP3CL wrote:
Akiho wrote:if marion wont accept that role, then we let him find another team who will take a chance on him. much the same way kupchak let ronny leave for GSW
He won't accept that for most of the reasons I explained in first response. And letting Ronny go had nothing to do with his role, it had to do with finances more than anything. Ronny knew that with Drew coming back his minutes would be limited.......he wanted money period.

during one interview with mitch kupchak he mentions ronny turiaf

kupchak basically sat ronny down and asked "would you be happier sitting on the bench here or getting minutes in GSW

ronny said (and im paraphrasing) "i need to feel wanted and important to the team im playing on" and so kupchak didnt match GSW's contract, (and i can find u a source if given the time). the lakers were that close to being another 4M into the luxury tax (3.25M if u minus josh powell)

edit: heres a related linked article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3496084

ronny wanted the minutes, not the money, the money was locked in when he signed the 17M/4yr deal with GSW. kupchak was more than willing to match, if ronny had wanted to stay with the lakers in a very reduced role

there are a lot of parallels to be drawn, especially the part where kupchak asks ronny if he'd be happy in a reduced role. ronny, felt he was more needed in GS and thus left. if thats the way marion feels about taking on a reduced role, hed need to find another team to take him on

DEEP3CL · Post #37 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:19 am

Never knew that interview happened as far I know, but good stuff anyway. Yes your right in a sense because Marion had been there the longest but saw other guys getting credit.

SPuL · Post #38 » by **SPuL** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:19 am

That Nicka wrote:We already have Ariza who does what Marion does for less money... No way Buss would pay Ariza, Luke and Marion all 6 mil+ to play the same position

We dump Luke for expirings just like we did Vlade mid season.

That Nicka · Post #39 » by **That Nicka** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:50 pm

SPuL wrote:
That Nicka wrote:We already have Ariza who does what Marion does for less money... No way Buss would pay Ariza, Luke and Marion all 6 mil+ to play the same position

We dump Luke for expirings just like we did Vlade mid season.

Easier said than done... Luke's contract goes through 2013 for one... For two he doesnt have a valuable attribute like Rad who is an elite shooter... Luke's game wouldnt translate well into most systems... I'm pretty sure we're stuck with him

ROB-G · Post #40 » by **ROB-G** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:00 pm

DEEP3CL wrote:
Akiho wrote:
ROB-G wrote:he doesn't fit in our system !!!

if ariza fits our system, how doesnt marion?
Because Ariza isn't a volume shooter like Marion, that's why he doesn't fit. You can't sit here and tell me Marion isn't looking to take a lot of shots.

Also, Ariza is highly coachable.