Jerry West: Lebron is better than Kobe

[TommyTheCat]

i agree with west. no shame to kobe though because he's been the best over the last few years and still has some great ball in him

[MeatWad0]

I had this year as Kobe's last year as the #1 swingman in the league...

You where a year late.

[USA]

Lebron is better than Kobe. One day someone will come along and be better than lebron.

[magic1fan]

I had this year as Kobe's last year as the #1 swingman in the league...

i can agree with that. i don't think kobe really cares,anymore,but i will say i would rate wade as taking kobe's spot. that guy has been unreal this season...if he can stay healthy i think wade will be the best for the next two or three years.

[LA Warrior]

Personally i could careless who the best in the league is, As long as the Lake Shows on top. If Kobes #1 great if not oh well its not the end of the world. It didnt seem to make that big of a difference for the Lakers or cleveland last yr when the celtics beat them both.

The one thing i can say with a great amount of pride is IF Kobe isnt the best, it IS NOT because of lack of effort. NO ONE works harder...

P.S. i still think Lebron took roids...

[TonyMontana]

WOW Logo has a few good points but I still take Kobe over Lebron.

[milesfides]

With all due respect to the Logo, he's wrong. Lebron had the better season, statistically - as ESPN's John Hollinger would remind you, again and again. A note: how objective is it for a espn writer to argue for a player's superiority using a ratings system he himself came up with?

A more balanced viewpoint is in order, using not only statistics but observation, and a whole lot of common sense.

Defense:

Lebron joined Kobe on this year's All Defensive First Team, something Kobe did seven times, and counting. Kobe also was the defensive stopper for Team USA in the Olympics last summer.

Due to Lebron's better shotblocking (from the weakside), and helped by the contrast principle, I would say he's a better team defender, while Kobe the better individual defender. This certainly seems the case as Kobe relishes the opportunity to guard the opponent's best perimeter scorer, while Lebron mainly helps from the weakside.

I would still give the edge to Kobe, simply because Lebron is not a game changer on defense (not like Andrei Kirilenko a couple years ago) from the small forward position. While Kobe can lock down and limit the opponent's best offensive threat, which is frequently more valuable.

Although many might disagree because Kobe tends to leave role players to help his teammates, I believe this is overstated since this has been a mainstay in the Lakers' defensive strategy. While the Lakers may get burned in a game or two because of this, over the course of a year, or even a series, forcing guys like Ronnie Brewer, Rondo, and others to become scorers for their team is an effective strategy.

But make no mistake, when a team has a star offensive player, Kobe will be on him and be very effective. This is why Kobe nearly matched Dwight Howard in the All-Defensive Team voting, which the coaches voted for. Since I believe the opinions of NBA head coaches matter more than the media, I'll go with Kobe's defense.

Rebounding:

Lebron averages a couple more rebounds. Due to his size advantage, it's not surprising. This is a clear advantage for Lebron. However, Lebron's no Shawn Marion (double digit rebounder small forward).

Passing, ballhandling:

Lebron averages a couple more assists (and turnovers), but I think that's more due to the differences between the Cavs and the Lakers' offenses. The Cavs run their offense through Lebron. For Kobe, although the ball does gravitate to him, especially in the fourth quarter, the triangle offense involves too many trigger passes and requires a certain amount of ball movement that makes it difficult for any player to average more than 5, 6 assists.

In fact, 82games.com rates Lebron's passing one point higher than Kobe's, 10 - 9. Also ballhandling, 23 - 22. I think it's close enough to be a wash.

Shooting/scoring:

Kobe's a better jump-shooter, one of the finest midranges in the game, and a high percentage finisher. Lebron is a decent jump-shooter, and a terrific finisher. The difference lies in the kinds of shots each takes - Lebron takes far more closer shots, so he ends up with a higher field goal percentage. This comes as no surprise, because many of Lebron's points come off dunks. Likewise, he draws more fouls. At this point, Lebron was like Kobe earlier in his career - relentless going to the basket, and putting constant pressure on defenses. Which one is better? Lebron has the statistical advantage on average, but what happens when teams are able to slow down Lebron's drives? In that sense, he's not quite as versatile and balanced a scorer as Kobe is.

Kobe's faced some elite individual and team defenses, and maintained his season and career averages. Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, and even Ronnie Brewer are among the league's best, if not best, wing defenders. And Houston was among the league's best team defenses this season.

I think Lebron's next playoff series against the Magic will test the versatility in his game. Can he win from the outside? Can he impose his will on the Magic? Will he be limited at all? I think he'll have to adjust - and again in the Finals, if we get there, because he had trouble against the Lakers (and Kobe's defense). In the two season matchups against the Lakers, he shot 25% and 36%, which speaks to both Kobe's defense and Lebron's offense.

How about Wade?

Dwayne Wade also deserves some mention. During the Olympics, both he and Kobe showed which players rose to the occasion when faced by adversity.

Nonetheless, Wade has his weakness, and it's a somewhat unreliable perimeter game. Although Wade clearly needs better teammates, against a prepared, decent defense (Atlanta), he was limited to well below his season fg% and a very high turnover rate.

Kobe suffered a similar fate against Boston last year (as did Lebron), but that team, for that one season, was quite possibly one of the greatest defensive teams in the history of the NBA.

Back on point, as it stands, due to his individual ability on defense, and more versatile offensive moves, I think Kobe is still the best overall player in the league. It also says something when he even qualifies his statement with Kobe's superiority in the clutch - something that most NBA head coaches agree upon.

So for the intangibles, the assassin-mentality, with the game on the line, most informed people would pick Kobe, and to me, that says it all. Beyond the stats, hype, and spite.

The redemption of USA basketball is a testament to what kind of qualities Kobe has, spoken and unspoken things that Lebron simply does not possess.

[semi-sentient]

like i said he will be an all time great,but their stats are not that far apart imo, considering minutes played,and the systems they play in. to each their own though,and at the end of the day i would rather have the best team over the best player anyday...

The best team right now is the Cavs until we prove otherwise when it matters, so the city of Cleveland has both at the moment.

BTW, I don't think there is a significant difference between Kobe and LeBron. All this "easily the best" talk is bogus. If we're judging by stats only, then yeah, LeBron is "easily" better, but I don't look only at the stat sheet. You have to take skill and all the other intangibles into account which is pretty much the only reason this is even a discussion at this point. In fact, I have gone back and forth this entire season on who I thought the best was, so in all likelihood the best in the league may very well be determined by who wins the championship. Right now the pendulum can swing in Kobe's favor if he finishes strong and brings home a championship, but up until this point I think LeBron has been more consistent on both ends of the floor so I'll give him the slight edge.

To reiterate, I do think Kobe is more skilled and always will be, but skill is not the only way to determine who the best player in the league is. Was Shaq even remotely close to being the most skilled player in the league? Hells to the no. He was just downright dominant and effective. That's the territory that LeBron is approaching, like it or not.

[NetsForce]

I had this year as Kobe's last year as the #1 swingman in the league...

You where a year late.

False. I was on point like always.

[magic1fan]

like i said he will be an all time great,but their stats are not that far apart imo, considering minutes played,and the systems they play in. to each their own though,and at the end of the day i would rather have the best team over the best player anyday...

The best team right now is the Cavs until we prove otherwise when it matters, so the city of Cleveland has both at the moment.

BTW, I don't think there is a significant difference between Kobe and LeBron. All this "easily the best" talk is bogus. If we're judging by stats only, then yeah, LeBron is "easily" better, but I don't look only at the stat sheet. You have to take skill and all the other intangibles into account which is pretty much the only reason this is even a discussion at this point. In fact, I have gone back and forth this entire season on who I thought the best was, so in all likelihood the best in the league may very well be determined by who wins the championship. Right now the pendulum can swing in Kobe's favor if he finishes strong and brings home a championship, but up until this point I think LeBron has been more consistent on both ends of the floor so I'll give him the slight edge.

To reiterate, I do think Kobe is more skilled and always will be, but skill is not the only way to determine who the best player in the league is. Was Shaq even remotely close to being the most skilled player in the league? Hells to the no. He was just downright dominant and effective. That's the territory that LeBron is approaching, like it or not.

i think you misunderstood me. i was saying i would rather the lakers be champions and kobe not be the best,then kobe being the best and us being sent home. like i said lebron is a great player,but i just don't see what everyone else sees. some might find that wrong,but to me kobe is just the more consistent player. lebron seems more about stats,and for all of the dominating and being able to bull his way to the basket talk,i have seen him turned into a weak jumpshooter quite a few times.

[magic1fan]

With all due respect to the Logo, he's wrong. Lebron had the better season, statistically - as ESPN's John Hollinger would remind you, again and again. A note: how objective is it for a espn writer to argue for a player's superiority using a ratings system he himself came up with?

A more balanced viewpoint is in order, using not only statistics but observation, and a whole lot of common sense.

Defense:

Lebron joined Kobe on this year's All Defensive First Team, something Kobe did seven times, and counting. Kobe also was the defensive stopper for Team USA in the Olympics last summer.

Due to Lebron's better shotblocking (from the weakside), and helped by the contrast principle, I would say he's a better team defender, while Kobe the better individual defender. This certainly seems the case as Kobe relishes the opportunity to guard the opponent's best perimeter scorer, while Lebron mainly helps from the weakside.

I would still give the edge to Kobe, simply because Lebron is not a game changer on defense (not like Andrei Kirilenko a couple years ago) from the small forward position. While Kobe can lock down and limit the opponent's best offensive threat, which is frequently more valuable.

Although many might disagree because Kobe tends to leave role players to help his teammates, I believe this is overstated since this has been a mainstay in the Lakers' defensive strategy. While the Lakers may get burned in a game or two because of this, over the course of a year, or even a series, forcing guys like Ronnie Brewer, Rondo, and others to become scorers for their team is an effective strategy.

But make no mistake, when a team has a star offensive player, Kobe will be on him and be very effective. This is why Kobe nearly matched Dwight Howard in the All-Defensive Team voting, which the coaches voted for. Since I believe the opinions of NBA head coaches matter more than the media, I'll go with Kobe's defense.

Rebounding:

Lebron averages a couple more rebounds. Due to his size advantage, it's not surprising. This is a clear advantage for Lebron. However, Lebron's no Shawn Marion (double digit rebounder small forward).

Passing, ballhandling:

Lebron averages a couple more assists (and turnovers), but I think that's more due to the differences between the Cavs and the Lakers' offenses. The Cavs run their offense through Lebron. For Kobe, although the ball does gravitate to him, especially in the fourth quarter, the triangle offense involves too many trigger passes and requires a certain amount of ball movement that makes it difficult for any player to average more than 5, 6 assists.

In fact, 82games.com rates Lebron's passing one point higher than Kobe's, 10 - 9. Also ballhandling, 23 - 22. I think it's close enough to be a wash.

Shooting/scoring:

Kobe's a better jump-shooter, one of the finest midranges in the game, and a high percentage finisher. Lebron is a decent jump-shooter, and a terrific finisher. The difference lies in the kinds of shots each takes - Lebron takes far more closer shots, so he ends up with a higher field goal percentage. This comes as no surprise, because many of Lebron's points come off dunks. Likewise, he draws more fouls. At this point, Lebron was like Kobe earlier in his career - relentless going to the basket, and putting constant pressure on defenses. Which one is better? Lebron has the statistical advantage on average, but what happens when teams are able to slow down Lebron's drives? In that sense, he's not quite as versatile and balanced a scorer as Kobe is.

Kobe's faced some elite individual and team defenses, and maintained his season and career averages. Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, and even Ronnie Brewer are among the league's best, if not best, wing defenders. And Houston was among the league's best team defenses this season.

I think Lebron's next playoff series against the Magic will test the versatility in his game. Can he win from the outside? Can he impose his will on the Magic? Will he be limited at all? I think he'll have to adjust - and again in the Finals, if we get there, because he had trouble against the Lakers (and Kobe's defense). In the two season matchups against the Lakers, he shot 25% and 36%, which speaks to both Kobe's defense and Lebron's offense.

How about Wade?

Dwayne Wade also deserves some mention. During the Olympics, both he and Kobe showed which players rose to the occasion when faced by adversity.

Nonetheless, Wade has his weakness, and it's a somewhat unreliable perimeter game. Although Wade clearly needs better teammates, against a prepared, decent defense (Atlanta), he was limited to well below his season fg% and a very high turnover rate.

Kobe suffered a similar fate against Boston last year (as did Lebron), but that team, for that one season, was quite possibly one of the greatest defensive teams in the history of the NBA.

Back on point, as it stands, due to his individual ability on defense, and more versatile offensive moves, I think Kobe is still the best overall player in the league. It also says something when he even qualifies his statement with Kobe's superiority in the clutch - something that most NBA head coaches agree upon.

So for the intangibles, the assassin-mentality, with the game on the line, most informed people would pick Kobe, and to me, that says it all. Beyond the stats, hype, and spite.

The redemption of USA basketball is a testament to what kind of qualities Kobe has, spoken and unspoken things that Lebron simply does not possess.

i don't have the patience to break it down like that,but your post is spot on...

[DanChee33]

Dear Mr. West,
I respectfully disagree. Overall Kobe is a much much better player. Yes Lebron has the physical ability that Kobe does not possess. But he has yet to prove he can out duel Kobe's cerebral part of the game. Let him get 3 or more rings and then we can have this conversation.

Ok.
Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

[magic1fan]

Dear Mr. West,
I respectfully disagree. Overall Kobe is a much much better player. Yes Lebron has the physical ability that Kobe does not possess. But he has yet to prove he can out duel Kobe's cerebral part of the game. Let him get 3 or more rings and then we can have this conversation.

Ok.
Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

i hate when people say stupid stuff like that. how do you know for a fact that shaq and lebron would win three rings? you don't! that's like assuming kobe and duncan or kobe and zo could have won three rings. the only thing that holds true is before kobe matured shaq had none,and he and kobe won them together. lebron's shot is not solid now,so there is no way he could duplicate what shaq and kobe did back then...

[AmusingFiddle]

Dear Mr. West,
I respectfully disagree. Overall Kobe is a much much better player. Yes Lebron has the physical ability that Kobe does not possess. But he has yet to prove he can out duel Kobe's cerebral part of the game. Let him get 3 or more rings and then we can have this conversation.

Ok.
Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

Please go back and watch the 3 rings that the Lakers won with Kobe and Shaq. Will put your argument to rest.

And give Lebron what Kobe had when they played Phoenix a couple of years back - Lebron wouldn't even make it to the playoffs in the WC.

[magic1fan]

Dear Mr. West,
I respectfully disagree. Overall Kobe is a much much better player. Yes Lebron has the physical ability that Kobe does not possess. But he has yet to prove he can out duel Kobe's cerebral part of the game. Let him get 3 or more rings and then we can have this conversation.

Ok.
Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

Please go back and watch the 3 rings that the Lakers won with Kobe and Shaq. Will put your argument to rest.

And give Lebron what Kobe had when they played Phoenix a couple of years back - Lebron wouldn't even make it to the playoffs in the WC.

exactly...

[TommyTheCat]

With all due respect to the Logo, he's wrong. Lebron had the better season, statistically - as ESPN's John Hollinger would remind you, again and again. A note: how objective is it for a espn writer to argue for a player's superiority using a ratings system he himself came up with?

A more balanced viewpoint is in order, using not only statistics but observation, and a whole lot of common sense.

well, this is jerry west's opinion and hollinger has nothing to do with it. so you are indicating that jerry west doesn't have a balanced viewpoint or a whole lot of common sense? he even admits in the article that he has a hard time being objective because of his ties to kobe, which would bode well in kobe's favor. one thing the reuters article (link in the OP) doesn't mention is this quote from the interview:

"If you look at basketball today, it's not always the big guys that win for you, it's the intermediate-size guys," West said, according to Bloomberg. "[He] can play four positions if you ask him to do so, and his ability to get everyone involved in the game is just remarkable for someone his age. I don't know if there's a better athlete I've ever seen play professional basketball."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4178437

lebron being able to play 4 positions is a huge advantage when compared to kobe.

[LA Warrior]

lebron being able to play 4 positions is a huge advantage when compared to kobe.

he may have the size to play the 4 but not the proper skill set to be nearly as effective as being on the wing.

[LLcoleJ]

I agree with Jerry's comments. Physically nobody can Match Lebron and his talent is their and should only get better. I also agree that I still take Kobe taking the last shot. That being said, I never have cared much for the " Best Player in the Game" title. It means little. Not little... nothing.

I am a Laker fan and my only goal is to be the best team in the game = title ( s )

[LA Warrior]

Dear Mr. West,
I respectfully disagree. Overall Kobe is a much much better player. Yes Lebron has the physical ability that Kobe does not possess. But he has yet to prove he can out duel Kobe's cerebral part of the game. Let him get 3 or more rings and then we can have this conversation.

Ok.
Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

so a team of shaq, kobe, malone, and payton is guaranteed to win one as well right?

I do see the point your trying to make but you cant just throw names together and expect championships. Alot of things happened during our 3 peat that you just dont know if it would have worked out the same with any other players. It wasnt Shaq just dunking on people non-stop (well sometimes). There were ALOT of very close games that could have gone either way, we had the players and coaches at the time to pull those out. Chemistry is very underated.

[crazyeights]

Give LeBron his Shaq (in his prime!) and he would do it for you! Just for the example: give him Dwight Howard - who is now not as good as Shaq in his prime - and do you say with straight face that he won't get 3 or more rings? C'mon...

(Now I know this is a different topic entirely, but I can't help it...

Not only is Dwight Howard "not as good as Shaq in his prime" now, but he will never be.

Really the only thing Dwight Howard has in common with Shaq is that he calls himself Superman.

Go ahead and block 12 shots a game and grab 40 boards, I don't care. The question is can you drop 40 points on any given night?

Being a franchise player is about handling the scoring load. Dwight Howard is infinitely more limited around the basket than Shaq. Does he even have a go-to move? A counter-move? Or is that just dunk?

(And we're not even getting into size...Howard's not even a 7-footer.)

Shaq is one of the GOATs. Dwight is....not.)