Rubio for Andrew Bynum....

[Verbal]

Can rooks sign a 1 year deal and become an unrestricted fa so they can get away for a bad team w/o pulling an ELI MANNING

I know who is he, but what does "pulling an Eli Manning" mean?

[Verbal]

how about 2nd round draft picks?

I think Gilbert got paid after his two years were up.

2nd round picks have contracts that last 2 years and are RFAs at the end of that contract

and can be held against their will for a max of 3 yrs

arenas left the GSW because they wouldnt match the massive contract he got from the wiz

Thanks for the reply, Akiho.


Is there a limit to how much a 2nd rounder can make?

[tkb]

So you're saying the triangle is bad for players who have strong play making abilities?

Rubio is only 18 years old, has excellent play making abilities and is already a better defender than what we currently have at point guard. He'd be an upgrade and he has a ton of room to improve on his range.

Ask yourself, why do we need anymore play making in the starting line up? He would not be an upgrade over Fisher right now because we do not need what he does best: playmaking. Do we want to take the ball away from Kobe more? Do we want Pau to play PnR with a PG without a jumpshot instead of letting him post up?

You can only make plays in today's league when there is spacing and Rubio would kill the spacing in this team. There isn't one reliable 3pt shooter in the lineup. Yea, Fisher has been bad but at least he's still a threat.

He would make our offense worse.

And what makes you think that Rubio, a 180 pound European ROOKIE, is a better defender than a vet like Fisher and a physical force like Shannon Brown this year? That's ridiculous. Even though Fisher is slow, he has 13 years of NBA experience and he has so many little veteran tricks.

What Kobe needs now, at 30 years old, are veterans, not 18 year old rookies. I would not trade Bynum for Rubio.

All we need is a PG who can defend and shoot the 3. That's it. We don't need a Lamborghini.

Why he'd be an upgrade? Because that fantastic point guard rotation we have only got outsucked by Minnesota, Washington, Sacramento and Oklahoma City this year? You can never have too much play making abilities in your starting lineup. The same way you can never have too much rebounding abilities.

Derek Fisher might be the worst point guard in the NBA defensively. His contributions on defense are negative IMO. He can't stay in front of his man, he doesn't draw charges well longer, he doesn't pick the passing lanes and he isn't great at rotating even though that's the only thing he doesn't flat out suck at.

Shannon Brown was a breath of fresh air this season, and I'm happy we got him so I don't have to watch D-Fish's D all the time, but Rubio's tenacity and ball awareness is still better (even as a rookie).

In PER difference this is how we rank in the league:
C - 2nd
PF - 10th
SF - 12th
SG - 2nd
PG - 26th

We're above average at every position except PG where we are one of the worst teams in the league. Rubio would by default make us a better team because he's better than one of the worst point guards in the league, even at 18.

And Fisher's shooting in these playoffs haven't been of any value either. On average, he MISSES 16 of 21 3s he attempts. Even Rubio could hit at that rate.

The way Fish is playing, he's the worst starting point guard in the league, and there is no way around it. I haven't said I'd want to trade Bynum for Rubio, but Rubio would for sure be an upgrade at point guard, and the point guard spot is for sure where we need to spend money if we're going to use the MLE this summer. I never want to see Fisher as the starter again. I'd be happy with having him as a backup that can be a glue guy and mentor for our younger players, he doesn't cut it as a starter.

[aroba]

And what makes you think that Rubio, a 180 pound European ROOKIE, is a better defender than a vet like Fisher and a physical force like Shannon Brown this year? That's ridiculous. Even though Fisher is slow, he has 13 years of NBA experience and he has so many little veteran tricks.

You don't know Rubio, do you?
A lot of people talks about European players and haven't seen a complete single game of them.

Rubio CHANGES games only because of his defense. He's unexpectedly so LONG and has such a great court vision that makes him a hell of a pressing defender, and projected all time NBA stealer. Remember Olympics Rubio's full court press vs Chris Paul? He just couldn't pass midcourt and lost the ball. And that's a usual feature on his game, few guards can pass him when on pressing mode.

Besides, he's such a magician at distributing and always shares the ball. A pretty unique once in a decade player (Magic, Kidd..).
So he's 180 punds? ok, that means he'll only become a monster on the defensive end when he works 2 o 3 years with NBA trainers.

[Sofa King]

Can rooks sign a 1 year deal and become an unrestricted fa so they can get away for a bad team w/o pulling an ELI MANNING

I know who is he, but what does "pulling an Eli Manning" mean?

I hope its nothing sexual and doesn't involve his brother.

[microfib4thewin]

rubio in the triangle is absolutely not good for:
1. the lakers
2. rubio

1. lakers don't need a 19yo euro rookie.

Considering we have absolutely no clue on what our future holds for the PG rotation I'd say that's an empty statement. Brown has played well, but he's backup material just like Fisher and Farmar. At some point we will need to find real help in the backcourt so Kobe doesn't have to create everytime. I am pretty much convinced Farmar is not the answer, maybe for other teams, but not for a team that plays halfcourt. Getting Rubio would mean:

1. A less tired Kobe.
2. Much better playmaking than any PG on this team.
3. Potentially a much better defender than either Fisher or Farmar.
4. A franchise player that Kobe can pass the torch to once he retires.

sure, hes got mad skills both offensively and defensively, but at this point in time, short pseudo SGs like fisher and shannon that will be required to play off-the-ball and shoot the 3 three. rubio for all his great positives in playmaking and vision and handles does not have great lift on his jumper and definitely is not a great shooter. whereas i do agree that rubio will be better defensively ONCE he bulks up for the larger point guards like deron, billups etc..., and eventually his work ethic will help him develop a decent jumper but kobe's got a very definite window for winning everything, and rubio despite his vast plying experience is not what the lakers are looking for and would end up costing them more than what theyre willing to pay

And you somehow believe that running undersized SG at the point will give us a better chance? Fisher's shooting has become painful to watch I don't want him to get more than 15 minutes as a backup next year. In the chance Brown stays we don't know if it's just a fluke he's playing this well, and Farmar is not a starter unless he's on a team that runs ala the Warriors or the Pacers.

2. rubio doesnt want the lakers.

rubio will want a team that will showcase rubio. in any draft pick analysis, there always seems to be a note that compares him to jason kidd, pistol pete or magic johnson, and that in ANY TEAM, his style of play will eventually dominate and become that teams primary offense.

How does playing in the most popular basketball team alongside Pau Gasol not showcase him? If Kobe can't handle the ball being taken away on some of the possessions that's Kobe's problem, not Rubio's.

[Erik Eleven]

On radio ESPN today:

Bynum admits to not being 100%. Four-five weeks of rest is the only thing that can bring him to full recovery. Let's hope he has an injury free season next year.

[Slava]

The more I watch the more I'm convinced that we'd be better off with a physical center that compliments Gasol well and can stay on the floor long enough to make an impact.

Re: Bynum still not being injury free, I agree that he'd be converting on a lot more alley oop plays if he had his explosion back but his tendency to pick up tick tack fouls frustrates me. We can get away with playing Pau at C and Odom at PF against 95 % of the teams in the league and we only need a physical C to match up against Boston, Houston or Orlando at the moment.

Am I willing to pay $ 14 mil for Bynum to do just that or address a more pressing issue at PG? I choose the latter. A star PG with defensive qualities like Rubio would give us match up advantage over almost 70 % of the teams that run a PG oriented offense.

[AceFresh]

no and no

[daddyfivestar]

Lakers beat writer from OC Reg said on 830 that for all of Bynum's ability and potential, even if he fully recovers, he is missing a key ingredient to greatness - a fire in his gut to be the best; the internal drive that separates the great from the greatest. He doesn't have what Kobe, Duncan, etc have. We want the heir apparent to Kareem, Shaq, but might get the next in the line of Divac and Elden, Scary thought.

[Dr Aki]

rubio needs the ball in his hands, the triangle is predicated on ball movement from all 5 players.

not that im saying that rubio wouldnt find a way to thrive in the triangle, but honestly, he's better off in a team that utilizes his skills to full effect.

when that rookie contract runs out, and hes a 23yo, hes going to want the max, because he definitely has enough talent to command that.

im not sure how he'd command the max averaging ~10-15ppg, 6-8apg all the while needing to develop a decent shot. especially with kobe dominating the ball, it isn't a matter of giving him rest, its also a matter of how kobe is going to trust rubio to make those 3s fisher makes. this is a kid that WILL average 11-12apg in his rookie year.

it isnt an ego thing either, he knew when he was playing for dkv joventut, to defer to the team's true superstar in rudy fernandez. and whereas rudy has transitioned well this year, to ask a 19yo rookie to instantly make the transition to become the teams starting PG all while not utilizing his best attributes? kobe has how many years to win rings? give or take 5? (after these finals)

im not only debating rubio's fit for the lakers, im sure that given enough time and practice, rubio would get familiar, develop a jumpshot and mold the triangle in his image. but theres simply no time to sit and see where the chips fall.

and then we want to trade bynum for him? our point guard defense isnt so horrible as the only option is to trade our true defensive center with real paint intimidation and natural shot blocking talent for.

if we want to improve our PG defense, id sooner explore free agency then to gamble our interior defense on a 19yo. there are plenty more PGs/combo guards/pseudo SGs out there than there are legitimate centers (ie. jason kidd)

[milesfides]

^Those are good points to bring up, but I'd like to put in my two cents:

1. Ok, Rubio might be utilized better without the triangle. That being said, one could say that about a lot of players, including Lamar Odom and even Kobe Bryant. True point guards would always be somewhat limited in the triangle offense, which requires a more fair distribution of the ball to be run correctly. However, ballers are ballers - the triangle utilizes talent like any other offense, and Rubio is immensely talented. Lastly, who knows how longer Phil will coach. If he doesn't, the triangle offense argument becomes a moot point. Pick and rolls with Rubio/Kobe and Gasol all day and night.

Regarding Andrew Bynum - he would be better on another team too. As long as he's on a team with Kobe, Bynum, and Odom (and to a large extent, guys like Fisher, Ariza, etc. non playmakers), Bynum will most likely be a secondary offensive option - at best. On another team? Bynum would be forced to be the primary option, and that would be better for his individual game as well.

So I don't see a major difference between Rubio and Bynum's suitability for the triangle offense; both will have to make individual sacrifices for the team.

2. Kobe will easily trust Rubio, just how he trusts all the guys on our team. Aside from forcing up a last second shot at the end of the 4th quarter yesterday, he has no problem kicking it out to unproven shooters like Ariza, who's been a nonfactor from behind the arc for most of his career. Kobe respects game, and I don't think there would be problems at all - in fact, I think Kobe would benefit the most in the 2nd half of his career with another true playmaker (like Jordan's Pippen).

3. I believe point guard defense has been our biggest weakness for the better part of a decade. I said this before, but I challenge people to find a team that had worse point guards for the past 10 years. There ain't many, we're right there at the bottom. I'll say it again, and tkb pointed out the PER differentials, PG is our biggest weakness. We lose Bynum, believe it or not, we'll still be one of the best teams in the league. It's a fact, because we've proven that when he was out. With an elite point guard like Rubio (and there's no doubt this kid will be elite, he's played against in elite competition, which is why he's a lock for a top 3 pick), our team will get the biggest boost by addressing our weakest position.

4. Point guards who can fill our team needs at point guard even adequately are hard to find. Superbly? Rare. I don't even like Kirk Hinrich, but I'd have to admit he's probably the best fit for us and the most available among decent point guards. And again, I think he's wildly overrated and limited in his game.

5. Bottom line: If Bynum is next in line among the league's great centers, then you keep him and build around him as Kobe retires. Nothing more rare than a Tim Duncan. The question is, is he a Tim Duncan? Is he a dominant center for the next 10 years?

Personally, I don't know. I like certain things, I don't like certain things. I have to admit, I was a skeptic from the beginning. He never had the natural talent as a 17-year-old (unlike Shaq). He had to really work on his game, and he opened my eyes the summer after Kobe wanted to "ship his ass out." Then, he was uneven.

Rubio, on the other hand, has exceptional written all over him. This kid is a genius with the ball. You can't learn that. You can't teach the kind of vision he has. He's fearless as well. This kid has been balling on the highest stage outside of the NBA as a teenager. And above all, this guy plays elite defense, and he LOVES TO PLAY DEFENSE. That's game over.

I've posted about Rubio for awhile now. All I can say is this: at this point, I'd probably choose him over Bynum to carry this Laker team if Kobe retires. Rubio would bring showtime back to L.A. And with his unique skills, ensure the trophy remains in L.A.

As much as everybody loves the status quo, I'd be willing to trade one of our three quality big men for a comparable talent at point guard. Because I truly believe with our biggest weakness addressed, we would be blowing teams out - and the stats tend to support that as well as our observation.

With a guy like Rubio at point, we'd be destroying teams silly, it would be a clinic offensively and defensively. And it'd be beautiful to watch.

Rubio, Kobe, Ariza, Odom, and Gasol - that would be unbelievable to watch. Ball movement, hustle, defensive lockdowns, highlight finishes...the Lakers would redefine another era in the NBA, and the game of basketball.

[milesfides]

Lastly, I wouldn't get ahead of ourselves regarding Bynum as "our future." Is there any indication that we'd have a better chance winning rings with Bynum than with Kobe?

Because Kobe is truly a once in a generation player. Don't waste the one of the all time greats that we have. We go for broke with this stud, and once it's over, then start over.

I'd definitely trade Bynum and his potential for the chance to win 5 rings now with Kobe and current company.

That's no offense to him. If we could trade Luke Walton for Rubio, that would be perfect, but alas, Bynum is that hot commodity that could get us big time help.

[LAKESHOW]

we also have to look at our opponents. the up and coming team in our conference, and even our division in my estimation is portland. theyve got 3-7footers. they have been absolutely stronger than us on the interior because of the number of bigs that they have.

a healthy yao ming and houston is also another team that is very strong in our conference.

denver is good, but we have a strong advantage over them with our heigth.

and of course the spurs.

with those prospects in front of us, we cannot go smaller. we must keep our size if not improve upon it. to give up bynum, we have to get equal or better size talent. like a wishful thinking of a bosh or somethin like that. but no way bynum for a small euro player. we have those already. and it would be a mistake.

without bynum? dwight howard has an easier time. get pau gasol in foul trouble and we are dead in the water. so no way should we go, in my estimation, big for small.

[microfib4thewin]

Why is anyone still bringing in this triangle crap? How often do we even run the triangle nowadays? Half the plays are Kobe dribbling around to get an open look, a quarter of times it's Gasol holding the ball for 10 seconds before he decides to flip a shot, then the rest are a random assortment of Bynum posting up, Lamar going left, or Fisher/Farmar/Sasha shooting anytime they have an inch of space away from the defender. They always try to initiate using the triangle but never finish it by playing the triangle properly. With Phil's possible retirement next year how players work in the triangle seem even more trivial. Odom, Ariza, and Farmar are all terrible fit for the triangle, and they have played well(Farmar did at one point). I can't see any rationalization why a PG who's young, works hard, has the potential to be one of the best playmaker, and plays defense would not help this team. We need more than just PG defense, we need better quality at the 1 spot in general, and that have been going on since Van Exel's departure.

As for not going small, we can sign veteran bigs who can play defense with partial MLE, there is no necessity at having centers be offensively gifted in this era of perimeter oriented offense. Realistically Kupchak wouldn't do this deal even if it was possible, but I don't agree with people dismissing the impact Rubio would have with this team.

[hermes]

Can rooks sign a 1 year deal and become an unrestricted fa so they can get away for a bad team w/o pulling an ELI MANNING

I know who is he, but what does "pulling an Eli Manning" mean?

Eli got drafted by the chargers but didn't want to play for them, so he pretty much forced the chargers to trade him to the giants

[daddyfivestar]

That's why the magic that is the lakers braintrust has to pull off another amazing coup and get Marc Gasol w Rubi. Impossible... probably but LA has been doing this to the league for 35 years so nothing is impossible. '75 Kareem, '77 Wilkes, '77 Dantley. '79 Magic, '82 Worthy, '83 Byron, '87 Mychal, '96 Kobe, '96 Shaq, '97 Horry, '07 Ariza, '08 Pau ... do it Mitch.

[Verbal]

Can rooks sign a 1 year deal and become an unrestricted fa so they can get away for a bad team w/o pulling an ELI MANNING

I know who is he, but what does "pulling an Eli Manning" mean?

Eli got drafted by the chargers but didn't want to play for them, so he pretty much forced the chargers to trade him to the giants

Oh my.


-This reminds me of something off-topic. hahah.

[mnkinga23]

I have a trade proposal for you all that would land Rubio in LA. In the OKC forums, the Pistons have a trade proposal and this is an expansion of that trade.

Detroit sends #15 and Amir Johnson/ receive #25
OKC sends #3, #25, and Earl Watson/ receive Andrew Bynum
Lakers send Andrew Bynum/ receive #3, #15, Amir Johnson, and Earl Watson

Detroit clears some cap space for the summer of '09. The Thunder get the young center of their future. With the expiring contracts of both Johnson and Watson, the Lakers are able to allocate the money that they save from Bynum's contract for Odom and Ariza without their payroll getting into the low 90s. They can also use the picks that they get to get some young talent to supplement the veterans on their roster. Obviously this only works if Rubio makes it past Memphis.

[Arroyo30]

bynum stays, rubio will be a bust you'll see