So what is Ariza worth?

[Dr Aki]

I see a hate-thread on David Lee

but no thread about discussing how much trev is worth?

i remember there being a thread 2.5 months ago (halfway through the utah series) in which i argued heavily that ariza wasnt even worth the full MLE, let alone 6+ mil that someone else wanted to give him...

and despite 32% 3pt shooting in the regular season, trevor did himself a massive favour by hitting 48% of threes in the playoffs.

i argued that trevor's skillset were a dime a dozen in the NBA where there were plenty of veterans willing to sacrifice their games and bodies in order to win championships and that there were much better 3pt bombers out there than trevor.

but we all still need to list his strengths and weaknesses

Strengths
- HEART
- reliable 3pt shooter but only because hes so wide-open all the time
- loves to play above the rim
- plays great ninja-like help-D
- is only 23, has many years of production ahead of him
- may be willing to take slight hometown & championship discount

Weaknesses
- just a role player
- crappy handles
- cant create his own shot off-the-dribble
- probably can't be a reliable 1st/2nd/3rd scoring option on any team
- still not the lockdown type defender we (in a perfect world) want him to be
- may have already hit his peak

but we can't rely on what the player is singlely worth in a free market. you need to take into account market forces and factor in demand and supply.

Teams that will have the money to chase ariza above the MLE:
- detroit * spent capspace on BG and CV *
- portland
- toronto
- memphis
- OKC
- atlanta
- sacramento (?)

Various other FAs (worth the MLE or more) that teams could instead chase instead of ariza:
- hedo
- ron artest
- LO
- marion
- millsap
- kidd
- CV * signed by DET 55M/5yr*
- david lee
- ben gordon * signed by DET 40M/5yr *
- AI (?)
- dice
- sheed
- andre miller

not to mention various other alternatives to trevor we could use if trevor does leave for anything lakers can't offer to match

Various other FAs Lakers can Pursue to replace ariza (for MLE or less), assuming kobe's just as capable at playing SF as well
- ron artest
- marion
- barnes
- a.parker
- trade for posey (ie. let ariza walk and trade ammo for posey, save maybe 1 year and ammo's 5.25mil in the process)

conclusion:
i personally think hes shown that he'll at least be thrown MLE from contending teams and am more than willing to match MLE, but not more

[NBAWestFan]

As a role player who has to work on his jumper who plays great D he is worth 5 mil because
he cannot create. He needs the dish from the point or a opening.

[Sofa King]

Ariza is worth the MLE, but with this economy, Ariza is worth this market's value. Not the market in lets say '04 where everyone was getting paid. Honestly, I could careless how much Ariza will make or is going to make. Just sign him. Get rid of Sasha and the like off the books.

[acion]

I'm not even sure Ariza is worth 5-6 million (Lakers made the mistake with both Sasha and Walton - overvaluing role players). I'd say $4M/year in todays economy. For example, compare him to Matt Barnes (who made $1.2M last year and won't get more than $2M-$3M this year: on a 2 year deal).

Ariza Barnes
ppg 8.9 10.2
rpg 4.3 5.5
apg 1.8 2.8
bpg 1.7 .7
spg .3 .3
FG% .46 .43
3pt% .319 .343
PER 12.9 12.2
height 6'8 6'7
weight 210 225
Age 24 29

Now I know different systems etc. (probably Barnes ppg and apg inflated a bit) - but Ariza is better slasher (as show by higher FG%) while Barnes is better 3pt shooter. Ariza is a better help defender (as seen by bpg) while Barnes is better down low (due to heavier body).

So I'm not saying Barnes is better than Ariza, but can you honestly tell me that Ariza is worth $2-3M per year more than Barnes? Role playing wings are easiest position to fill in NBA, don't overpay... again.

[DubaLakers]

Good poll. IMO he's worth up to 8M. I still think you guys underrate him. I want him more than I want Odom back.

NBA West he's not a role player, he starts.

How many clutch threes did he hit this year, he was even keel from regular season thru playoffs, no hiccups.

[hermes]

he may be worth 8 mil, but there is no team in the league (including us) that should or has the means to pay him that much

everyone is hard-pressed for cash- so money is going to be down big time this summer

[DubaLakers]

Hermes you'd make a bad agent .

[DubaLakers]

What is the opposite of David Lee sports agent?

Answer: Hermes Hometowndiscount III, esq. sports agent

[LLcoleJ]

Well that is the joy of this time period. We are going to find out exactly what he is worth based on interest from other clubs. I don't see the Lakers bidding against themselves and I don't see team with cap room offering him 7-8 million dollar deals. There are only a few teams with cap room out there.

That leaves the MLE vs. what the Lakers would give him.In that case I like our chances and Ariza will still be getting paid, well.

[DubaLakers]

Phil X, lol, nice name change bro, well deserved!

I get this funny feeling Lamar is gone, and Trevor is staying. If LO went to the Spurs would they be the favorites to win the title, that be fn' scary, nooooo! If I were the Spurs, the only team that can rival our management staff, I'd go hard after LO.

From what I read (realgm article) we should already know about Mbenga today, decision due yesterday, and Powell by tommorrow, decision due today.

I can barely even do work right now, FA period is more nerve racking than the Finals were.

[ALL HAIL]

Someone needs to tell me what MLE is?

I thought their were varying degrees to MLE?

I don't know if it's MLE or not but in a practical reality he is worth the Vujacic contract last year, 15 mill over 3 years, that's 5 million per.

The Lakers will give him 6 mill per over hopefully just four years (24 mill tot) but probably at five years (30 mill tot).

[TommyTheCat]

yeah, great name change phil x

ariza at most gets mle. no other team will offer more than that and i'm hopeful the lakers can nab him for 5 years starting at 4 mil with team options on years 4 & 5. i don't know if it's possible to structure a contract with the last two years being a team option..............if not i'd like to see a 4 year deal with option on the 4th.

after the luke deal, mitch shortened up sasha's deal (thank goodness) so i'm hoping he sticks with that and doesn't get into another situation where a player gets paid and falls off the charts.

and yes, despite starting ariza IS a role player and a damn good one. just like rambis & ac green were role players for the showtime lakers. nothing wrong with being a role player because you need good ones to win championships.

[microfib4thewin]

but we all still need to list his strengths and weaknesses

Strengths
- HEART
- reliable 3pt shooter but only because hes so wide-open all the time
- loves to play above the rim
- plays great ninja-like help-D
- is only 23, has many years of production ahead of him
- may be willing to take slight hometown & championship discount

Weaknesses
- just a role player
- crappy handles
- cant create his own shot off-the-dribble
- probably can't be a reliable 1st/2nd/3rd scoring option on any team
- still not the lockdown type defender we (in a perfect world) want him to be
- may have already hit his peak

If you are trying to argue that he's not worth the MLE you are doing a pretty poor job at presenting your argument. No MLE type player will be anything more than a role player, you cannot get someone with an MLE and expect him to be a 1st or 2nd option, and he's only 24, so he can still improve, he's just not going to make any astronomical jump like Durant did.

As a side note, guys like Battier and Bowen is valuable to their team as lockdown defenders because they're on teams with good defensive mindsets. They know when to help and when to stay on their assignments, plus they have great centers defending the paint. If you have Battier play on the Lakers he would look like Smush because we don't have any help defender outside of Ariza and Gasol's defense is a joke compared to Duncan or Yao. His value as a player would drop like the stockmarket because the Lakers do not know how to send help with appropriate timing and they do not have a strong defensive big that can act as an enforcer.

but we can't rely on what the player is singlely worth in a free market. you need to take into account market forces and factor in demand and supply.

Teams that will have the money to chase ariza above the MLE:
detroit
portland
toronto
memphis
OKC
atlanta
sacramento (?)

Various other FAs (worth the MLE or more) that teams could instead chase instead of ariza:
hedo
ron artest
LO
marion
millsap
kidd
CV
david lee
ben gordon
AI (?)
dice
sheed
andre miller

Aside from Dice, no one on that list could be had for the MLE. Odom is a 15/10/4 player that is excellent on the break, he's worth more, Miller averaged 16/7 this season, Kidd and Lee are both offered 8 mil on their first year of their extension, AI is too much of a ticket magnet to be paid MLE, Gordon got a 5/45 offer from the Bulls last year and he will probably demand more with his playoff performance. I can go on, but you get the idea. None of those guys you mentioned can be signed by the Lakers unless we miraculously shed Gasol's and Kobe's contract.

not to mention various other alternatives to trevor we could use if trevor does leave for anything lakers can't offer to match

Like who? Barnes is a terrible example because he is four years older than Ariza right now when he signed with the Suns, he was also playing for the Warriors and had negative press when his feud with management was publicized. Ariza came off a spectacular playoff performance, helped the team win the title, has zero PR issues, of course he has a better hand than Barnes did for a new contract. Additionally, we lacked slashers before the Ariza trade, and losing him could cause the same problem.

[Jajwanda]

Luol Deng
Ron Artest
Matt Barnes
James Posey
Hell even Rodney Carney
Stephen Jackson
Linas Klieza

That's just off the bat too.

Who cares what Barnes' history was if he's available for far cheaper and is a larger defender who won't have the size struggles Ariza had. The guy is not that irreplaceable.

[hermes]

Hermes you'd make a bad agent .

no doubt

but i'm telling you with the economy the way it is, and with only a few teams with cap room spending is going to be WAY down

and the few teams with room don't exactly roll with really deep pockets to be able to pay one guy 10 mill a year

[hermes]

Mr. David Lee is trying to buck the tread early, and get in with some serious cash before everyone gets cheap on him

[Kilroy]

The Raptors are supposedly going to offer Turk a 5/60M deal...

Is Ariza's value that much lower than Turks? I got a feeling this is going to be dicey for us.

It doesn't really sound to me like Ariza's desire to stay is that high. I get the feeling that he figures he got a Ring, now it's time to get paid...

We'll see though I guess.

[Jajwanda]

Ya considering he can't create his own shot it is much less. If any team wants to pay Ariza 10m I welcome you to it, please do it I beg of you. In fact Portland please do it, it'll make me laugh even harder if a rival does it.

There are so many players that shoot the 3, play D and move off the ball in this league it's almost ridiculous.

Matt Friggin Barnes could do what Ariza is asked to do. Hell you could even go get the expert of this art of role-play in James Posey just by trading Adam Morrison's contract.

[Dr Aki]

i see you still decide to pick and choose what you take from my posts in order to serve your purposes...

If you are trying to argue that he's not worth the MLE you are doing a pretty poor job at presenting your argument. No MLE type player will be anything more than a role player, you cannot get someone with an MLE and expect him to be a 1st or 2nd option, and he's only 24, so he can still improve, he's just not going to make any astronomical jump like Durant did.

conclusion:
i personally think hes shown that he'll at least be thrown MLE from contending teams and am more than willing to match MLE, but not more

[Danny Darko]

damnit why did Detroit start of free agency by overpaying Charlie Fricken Villanueva .... If he gets 5 years 35 trevor will want at least that.