RealGM

I was thinking about this and I wanted to get you guys opinions on this topic. I would have posted it on the GB but trying to have a good laker conversation on the GB is pretty much impossible. Defensively, can Ron Artest be for the lakers what KG was to boston a couple of years ago? IIRC Boston was not a very good defensive team before he got there, KG on the wolves was not a defensive stopper, Ray Ray was not a defensive stopper, and niether was Pierce. But when you put them together, you saw what happened. On paper, Lakers have better tools to be a better defensive team, its just about putting it together.

can artest spark a defensive attitude within the sometimes lacksidaisical and slack lakers?

maybe if kobe finds it an afront to his chances of making the All-NBA defensive 1st team

and then the other peons will fall into line...

Akiho wrote:can artest spark a defensive attitude within the sometimes lacksidaisical and slack lakers?

maybe if kobe finds it an afront to his chances of making the All-NBA defensive 1st team

and then the other peons will fall into line...

Yeah thats the thing. Boston went hard every game. Knowing Kobe and Phil there's a slim chance of that happening. I still hope Ron Artest can bring some fire on Defense. If he show fire..I dont see Kobe letting Ron-Ron out due him. I kinda see them having a friendly competition of who can get more steals this year. Kinda like how Kobe and Payton had a competition with who can hit the most left hand shots.

iamworthy wrote:

Akiho wrote:can artest spark a defensive attitude within the sometimes lacksidaisical and slack lakers?

maybe if kobe finds it an afront to his chances of making the All-NBA defensive 1st team

and then the other peons will fall into line...

Yeah thats the thing. Boston went hard every game. Knowing Kobe and Phil there's a slim chance of that happening. I still hope Ron Artest can bring some fire on Defense. If he show fire..I dont see Kobe letting Ron-Ron out due him. I kinda see them having a friendly competition of who can get more steals this year. Kinda like how Kobe and Payton had a competition with who can hit the most left hand shots.

sounds like a recipe for disaster

cant have kobe AND artest continually gambling for steals

kobe irks us enough already when he tries his "free safety" sh*t (am i using it right?? gridiron isnt available in australia)

its going to piss us all off if we see ronron doing it as well instead of bodying up his man

I think it's fair to say we were an average team with Bynum last year. Without Bynum we were below average to average. So I'm thinking if Bynum can play the full season plus Artest's toughness we're going to be on par with Boston and Cleveland defensively. On the ball toughness is what I see us getting from Artest and I think that'll ease the burden on Bynum/Gasol to cover up all game for our breakdowns.

If you subtract the defensive ups and downs we had last year from that "overloading the ballhandler defense" experiment that got exposed after a month and that stupid bet going on between (I think) Kobe, Farmar, and Ariza we're going to be way better.

I really hope we don't see another bet going on about getting steals; UNLESS they're Gary Payton on-the-ball type steals and not that gambling on your own man crap we had going on.

what would jack bauer do? wrote:I think it's fair to say we were an average team with Bynum last year. Without Bynum we were below average to average. So I'm thinking if Bynum can play the full season plus Artest's toughness we're going to be on par with Boston and Cleveland defensively. On the ball toughness is what I see us getting from Artest and I think that'll ease the burden on Bynum/Gasol to cover up all game for our breakdowns.

If you subtract the defensive ups and downs we had last year from that "overloading the ballhandler defense" experiment that got exposed after a month and that stupid bet going on between (I think) Kobe, Farmar, and Ariza we're going to be way better.

I really hope we don't see another bet going on about getting steals; UNLESS they're Gary Payton on-the-ball type steals and not that gambling on your own man crap we had going on.

#6 in defensive efficiency proves that we were "only an average team"???

without bynum for half the year, we finish #6 in defensive efficiency and we're "below average to average"???

we underrate the lakers defense this much??

It's possible.

The Lakers, when motivated, are damn good defensively. Remember the tear we went on to start the 2008-09 season? We were the best defensive team (by far) the first 15 games or so. One of the biggest reasons that our defense was so damn good was that Radmanovic was actually playing it for a change (go back to the early season game threads -- quite a few folks were giving him props). Now that Artest fills in at his spot I imagine that we'll have that type of intensity there for a full 82 games.

Another factor is Bynum. He was a force in the middle early in the season. Remember how we would say that once Bynum got a block the game was over? Well, when he came to play we were virtually guaranteed a victory. Perhaps this is where Artest can help us the most. If he can get Bynum to buy into being a defense first player then he'll already be making a huge impact. Bynum is the guy that can take us from being the #5 or #6 defense in the league to the #1 defense.

Akiho wrote:#6 in defensive efficiency proves that we were "only an average team"???

without bynum for half the year, we finish #6 in defensive efficiency and we're "below average to average"???

we underrate the lakers defense this much??

There is some truth to the statement that we are average. We were absolutely dominant the first 1/4 of the season on defense, then we started somewhat of a free fall that we never really recovered from. Throughout the season our dRtg was steadily dropped starting sometime in early/mid December. We were downright atrocious at times and half the board knew it. Heck I was calling for Phil's and Kobe's heads for not stepping to the plate and being more vocal about it.

semi-sentient wrote:It's possible.

The Lakers, when motivated, are damn good defensively. Remember the tear we went on to start the 2008-09 season? We were the best defensive team (by far) the first 15 games or so. One of the biggest reasons that our defense was so damn good was that Radmanovic was actually playing it for a change (go back to the early season game threads -- quite a few folks were giving him props). Now that Artest fills in at his spot I imagine that we'll have that type of intensity there for a full 82 games.

Another factor is Bynum. He was a force in the middle early in the season. Remember how we would say that once Bynum got a block the game was over? Well, when he came to play we were virtually guaranteed a victory. Perhaps this is where Artest can help us the most. If he can get Bynum to buy into being a defense first player then he'll already be making a huge impact. Bynum is the guy that can take us from being the #5 or #6 defense in the league to the #1 defense.

ha!

i remember starting a thread on what was more impressive, vlad's defense? or trevor's 3pt shooting...

lakers started that season with a chip on their shoulder after being bombarded from ALL ANGLES for 3 straight months with questions about their toughness, defense and desire to win.

maybe thats what the lakers needed: a siege mentality

however, that defensive scheme was also built to hide our perimeter defensive deficiencies, especially ability to stay in front of our man. and by always shading them towards the baseline, it guaranteed opposition penetration was directed into a 7ft near the baseline where they threw up an errant shot or passed over 2-3 sets of arms.

having a 6'10" SF helped greatly and when ariza came in, his long gangly arms had the same effect...

with artest and his more physical man-to-man brand of defense, that scheme might be a bit redundant

i also remember those threads where the crazy statistic was that in games in which bynum got a block, lakers were 97% (25/26 or something) likely to win the game...

brings back memories...

semi-sentient wrote:

Akiho wrote:#6 in defensive efficiency proves that we were "only an average team"???

without bynum for half the year, we finish #6 in defensive efficiency and we're "below average to average"???

we underrate the lakers defense this much??

There is some truth to the statement that we are average. We were absolutely dominant the first 1/4 of the season on defense, then we started somewhat of a free fall that we never really recovered from. Throughout the season our dRtg was steadily dropped starting sometime in early/mid December. We were downright atrocious at times and half the board knew it. Heck I was calling for Phil's and Kobe's heads for not stepping to the plate and being more vocal about it.

tbh, it was really only the first 6 or so games where we built up a giant lead over #2 defensive team

the media caught on, the lakers believed the hype and then slacked off

over the next 15 or so games, we still lead but it was already slipping...

but its a game of averages, in the end we were 6th which is still much much better than #15th

Bynum having a defense first mentality would be awesome. Gasol would be the main post scorer. I believe teams are much better defensively when their big man is a good defensive player. If I had the chose to sign a player to my team based on just his defensive ability I would pick a big man over the perimeter player almost every time.

We definitely have the personnel to be an elite defensive team. The question is will he have the commitment and the proper defensive schemes. Remember, Boston has their defensive guru Tom Thibedeau, it wasn't just KG's presence that made them great defensively.

sorry, didn't read the posts yet, but my first reaction was that if watching kobe/artest get after it doesn't inspire the defensive effort, its never going to get to the elite level. just thinking about the EFFORT that those two will put out there is exciting. people can talk about both kobe's and ron's declining defense, but no one will out hustle them.

semi-sentient wrote:It's possible.

The Lakers, when motivated, are damn good defensively. Remember the tear we went on to start the 2008-09 season? We were the best defensive team (by far) the first 15 games or so. One of the biggest reasons that our defense was so damn good was that Radmanovic was actually playing it for a change (go back to the early season game threads -- quite a few folks were giving him props). Now that Artest fills in at his spot I imagine that we'll have that type of intensity there for a full 82 games.

Another factor is Bynum. He was a force in the middle early in the season. Remember how we would say that once Bynum got a block the game was over? Well, when he came to play we were virtually guaranteed a victory. Perhaps this is where Artest can help us the most. If he can get Bynum to buy into being a defense first player then he'll already be making a huge impact. Bynum is the guy that can take us from being the #5 or #6 defense in the league to the #1 defense.

I agree 100% on all of the above.

We all know artest isn't as fast as ariza but artest is better built to guard them hard when the ball stops at the 3 or in the paint. Ariza was gambling more on steals as well as kobe... Not being that fast, i doubt artest will do the same as ariza in steals. But his mentality on court and tough attitude is what brings that bad attitude in us out.
I remember how everyone was just telling us how boston was more aggressive.. we were too weak but now we have the answe to that i think. i believe we're going to see a better defensive team this season compared to last season.. hopefully the offense follows as well hehe.

Last year, Rambis was responsible for the defensive game plan. Who will it be this year?

Erik Eleven wrote:

semi-sentient wrote:It's possible.

The Lakers, when motivated, are damn good defensively. Remember the tear we went on to start the 2008-09 season? We were the best defensive team (by far) the first 15 games or so. One of the biggest reasons that our defense was so damn good was that Radmanovic was actually playing it for a change (go back to the early season game threads -- quite a few folks were giving him props). Now that Artest fills in at his spot I imagine that we'll have that type of intensity there for a full 82 games.

Another factor is Bynum. He was a force in the middle early in the season. Remember how we would say that once Bynum got a block the game was over? Well, when he came to play we were virtually guaranteed a victory. Perhaps this is where Artest can help us the most. If he can get Bynum to buy into being a defense first player then he'll already be making a huge impact. Bynum is the guy that can take us from being the #5 or #6 defense in the league to the #1 defense.

I agree 100% on all of the above.

about the bynum thing, everyone remember how he went one on one against duncan and did a stellar job on him? i think it was in the middle of bynum's crazy run where he put up impressive numbers. i remember the conversation being that despite the spurs game being his least impressive stat wise, it was probably the best game of the season considering the defense he played.

You're right, I guess I was selling us short by calling us average defensively. I think compared to the rest of the league last year we're definitely one of the better defensive teams, but when I say we're average I'm thinking of good defensive teams throughout the last 30 years. I think we blew way too many big leads and we should've never been outplayed by Houston without Yao.

Anyways I just got pumped again about Artest being here. I kept thinking during that Houston series "if only we could get guys like this on our roster". And I'm pretty sure we just cut out and implanted a part of the soul of that team... which is going to turn our team into a whole other beast. I'm thinking we still got 3 or 4 more championships left in us.

We got three pitbulls on our team in Fisher, Kobe, and Artest. Plus, Bynum ain't bad when healthy and Gasol steps up defensively when he realizes what's on the line. Odom is an underrated defender in my opinion too. If you're going to say Fish sucks and is old you're half right... he might have stunk it up in the playoffs, but his defense on the bigger guards was good. I just don't think anyone in the league can guard the smaller pg's anymore. Plus he'll be right in there with Kobe and Artest showing what type of effort our whole roster should put up.

We're stacked from top to bottom when healthy, so I don't see our bench blowing many leads this year.

dcash4 wrote:sorry, didn't read the posts yet, but my first reaction was that if watching kobe/artest get after it doesn't inspire the defensive effort, its never going to get to the elite level. just thinking about the EFFORT that those two will put out there is exciting. people can talk about both kobe's and ron's declining defense, but no one will out hustle them.

Well Cash stole my thunder of what I thought from Day 1 after getting Ron. Him and Kobe will up the ante for everybody else not to be a weak link. Bottom line is the rest better pick up their effort cause if not, they got some explaining to do to two of the best defensive guys on the team.

dcash4 wrote:

Erik Eleven wrote:

semi-sentient wrote:It's possible.

The Lakers, when motivated, are damn good defensively. Remember the tear we went on to start the 2008-09 season? We were the best defensive team (by far) the first 15 games or so. One of the biggest reasons that our defense was so damn good was that Radmanovic was actually playing it for a change (go back to the early season game threads -- quite a few folks were giving him props). Now that Artest fills in at his spot I imagine that we'll have that type of intensity there for a full 82 games.

Another factor is Bynum. He was a force in the middle early in the season. Remember how we would say that once Bynum got a block the game was over? Well, when he came to play we were virtually guaranteed a victory. Perhaps this is where Artest can help us the most. If he can get Bynum to buy into being a defense first player then he'll already be making a huge impact. Bynum is the guy that can take us from being the #5 or #6 defense in the league to the #1 defense.

I agree 100% on all of the above.

about the bynum thing, everyone remember how he went one on one against duncan and did a stellar job on him? i think it was in the middle of bynum's crazy run where he put up impressive numbers. i remember the conversation being that despite the spurs game being his least impressive stat wise, it was probably the best game of the season considering the defense he played.

I remember that, it was right after he dropped like 42 and 16 on the Clippers. It's scary to think of our team if Bynum can get to 100% by the end of next season. Even during his hot streak he still wasn't getting much air and he struggled catching a lob. You could see he wasn't 100%, but he still was good on defense. Just goes to show we got a diamond in the rough, bynum is that far ahead of Oden in defensive fundamentals.