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44 games, 33-11 and just drop to 2nd for overall HCA. All this because Phil's insistence on making Pau option number 1 in the post. For the last couple of years it's been all type of post saying how Drew and Pau can't play together and Drew should be traded. All of that is (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Drew and Pau can play perfectly together only thing Pau has to drop to the second option in the post.

Over the last couple of weeks guys on this very board have been calling for Drew to be traded, and guys think the Lakers can win a title with Pau being the sole threat in the post............false. He doesn't have the physical make up it takes to play the 5 on a 82 game basis. Hubie Brown his coach in Memphis even said himself that Pau isn't made for the 5 spot.

Yet all I see here is guys clamoring over Pau, the same guy who can't even realize he should've taken the summer off to rest. When I took that opinion up here all I got was this "he wants to play for his country" ...yeah yeah I got all that. But priority number 1 is the Los Angeles Lakers bottom line period.

He's breaking down and seems to have the lack of strength on a game by game basis to be the main threat from the interior. Phil is blinded by the overall skill set of Pau, but in basketball it's always been easier when you have a big that can score buckets and shoulder the load doing it.

For example the Dallas game two weeks ago, Drew played well and got key buckets down the stretch and made Dampier who usually plays well against Drew look like a rag doll.

The time has come for Phil to just suck it up and make Drew the main interior post option, even if it's just for this year at least until Pau gets right. We have 11 losses and I can directly recall at least 4 games we've lost because of Pau not showing up or playing tough enough. He was and is the main reason the Lakers get the "soft" label thrown at them from the media.

We though for sure signing Ron Ron would trash that label but it hasn't, and truth be told it won't go away until Pau mans up once in for all in big games. Think about it besides that week he was rebounding his butt off for his extension......how many games has Pau came up big in the elite games ?

Look I was one of Drew's harshest critics here on this board, but it was nothing more than me just wanting to see the effort I know he can put forth. But now that the season seems like it can end in flames because Phil want's Pau as option 1 in the post, I'd rather see Drew in that role because simply put Pau can't handle it and we won't be having no parade if this keeps up. What the hell do we have to lose but say only a chance at a repeat ?

Some times thing just bottom out and this obsession with Pau has, it's time to let Drew have the post.

Sounds great but Phil will always have it his way and his way doesn't include Drew getting the post.

Deep I knew this day was coming. I'm going to start off by giving you credit, I always knew you were riding Drew because of what you knew he could do potentially but I know you know your ball. So now that you have told it like it is I wonder where all the it's easy to hate on Drew band wagoners are going to run to now?

Especially the "whatever DEEP says" posters. This is why I always stood firm on Drew being given the time to get back after missing what was equivalent to a full season over the last 2 seasons. It's so funny how when he plays well most are quite then when he has bad games, "he sucks" or "trade him" comes fast. All while being blinded by Pau's ineptness to sustain at the 5.

This should have been realized when the C's punked him all the way out in '08. I think Pau is an outstanding player & wouldn't trade him for any other 4 in the game but we still have to call him for what he is & most of the time he's "soft". I think you are correct about Phil being blinded by his overall skill set because most here are blinded by the same thing. Plus its easy to ride a bandwagon that you know most will be on.

In summary those that ran to the let's hate on Drew because it appears that what DEEP3CL is doing, where are you going to run to now? See DEEP knows what he's talking about & why. We don't always agree but I respect his opinion, but this is why you should use your own mind & watch the game within the game. DEEP much props to you.

The Skyhook wrote:Sounds great but Phil will always have it his way and his way doesn't include Drew getting the post.

DEEP is right though. Drew has been dominant & has been rebounding well to go with his scoring. He was 1 short of a double double tonight.

more like kobe should play like this every game and bynum should just be spoon fed by kobe and use energy on playing defense, kind of like 07-08

IMO offense is not the problem

Drew should have 3 blocks per game and Pau should have 2 and they should 25 rebs between the 2 of them.

Thats what we need.

Maybe, but Bynum still doesn't have nearly the post savvy or versatility that Pau does down there.

I like how it went early today, establish them both down there, and today it should have been Andrew who got the call in the second half more often, but he doesn't have the same court sense Gasol does down the stretch, nor the ability to stay as focused for a full 48.

But you're right in that he needs to be considered more often. Against brute frontcourts like the Cs, and even the Cavs, it makes more sense to ride out Bynum's own brute ability, since despite his developing post game, he wouldn't be effective without his raw strength, and go to Pau against the teams that double the pivot more often, since that plays to his craftiness and then some.

But I think if the Lakers are going to win again, it will be on Pau to deliver, but recognize Bynum's big nights early in the game and give him some vital 3rd quarter IF it makes sense, not as a guarantee.

For this year at least.

I think our problems

on offense:

-where not running our offense

-gasol is decent we're treating him like hes been trash or something. he still delivers. but I agree that we should go to bynum right now...not because pau sucks but because I think he needs some rest. he looks tired and he doesn't seem to be that explosive when making offensive moves. And I think bynum would be more efficient right now because hes more healthy than pau and the kid's been improving every game.

-kobe's been forcing a lot. the ball's taking too damn long in his hands. how the hell our players gonna contribute, when there is 6 seconds left when they get the ball. like gasol I think he should take it easy right now. try to get healthy, stick to the offense and keep moving the ball to get easier shots.

-again just keep running our offense, feed the bigs

-fish has not been hitting his shots..hes disappearing

-I think we should use artest more. we're not getting the full artest....we should try and post him a lot especially right now kobe's injured. right now on offense, artest has just become a spot-up shooter.

-the farmar and brown combo has been great...because I think they're the complete opposite of our starting players..they stick to the offense, the ball movement is good when they're both on the floor. plus they hustle and play hard.

-again just keep running our offense and feed the bigs X100


on defense

-fish is old...but I think hes been pretty decent the past couple of games though

-defensive rotation sucks(typical lakers though) and an older fisher and an injured kobe and artest are making it worst

-both our bigs our being lazy on defense and a tired gasol's not helping. And they being out-hustled

-actually everyone's being lazy..no one's hustling...we just start focusing on D when there is 4-2 mins left in the 4th (again typical lakers)

We need to use Bynum like we used Pau last year in the playoffs just running PnR with Kobe as seen last night it results in easy buckets, Drew is just more physical and Pau isn't right yet so we should put more on Drew and let Pau rest until the playoffs

Bynum can't play a complete game... He starts getting tired halfway through the first quarter and starts picking up stupid fouls... That's generally when Phil sits him... It's not Phil being a big meanie...
He's just trying to make sure we have Bynum for the finals...

Gasol may be playing bad ove the last 3 games, and he may be lilly-soft... But he's still our second best all around player by far... It's not even close.
He's even way better in the post than Bynum....

The goal was never for Gasol to be in the post with Bynum... It was for Pau to pop out to PF with Bynum in the post. The problem with that is that Bynum can't defend or post up by himself.

I'd love to see Bynum step up to starting and finishing center for us...
I'd love to see Pau move out to PF...

But I believe there's a reason it hasn't worked... I don't think either one of them are comfortable in those roles...

I think Pau likes the post, and I think Bynum sees himself as some sort of run-n-gun, catch and release PF/C hybrid... Which he wouldn't be very good at.

This team has a real identity problem in the paint...
If we're going to embrace Bynum in the paint, then we probably need to move Pau for a proper shooting PF... (and Bynum needs to figure out how to play solid D)
If we're going to embrace Pau as out PF/C then we probably need to move bynum for a physical, D oriented, big-body...

That being said , the best, potentially most successfull, solution is for both Bynum and Gasol to figure out how to work together and give us a proper twin-towers threat down low.

I've seen enough of Bynum/Kobe PnR to tell you that it isn't going to work. Bynum simply isn't quick enough to slip through the defenders, not sure if the knee is still bothering him, but you rarely see a switch on assignments when Bynum sets a screen for anyone. I do agree that Bynum needs more time in the post. Right now many things are better than Kobe trying for 30+ shot attempts, and it's not like Bynum is totally inept at passing out of double teams. With Bynum down low at least you can play Pau at the FT line extended where he can either hit a 15 footer or take his opponent off the dribble.

DEEP3CL wrote:how many games has Pau came up big in the elite games ?

Anklebreaker702 wrote:All while being blinded by Pau's ineptness to sustain at the 5.

Uh, didn't we win a championship last year with Pau playing, and playing well, as our primary post option?

Three disclaimers:

1. I did not catch last night's game (I was too busy watching my Vikings fork over a Super Bowl berth to New Orleans) so if this has any direct correlation with what went down I can't speak.

2. I am NOT advocating anything negative in terms of trading Andrew. For a fat high school kid taken on a gamble, he's drastically exceeded any and all reasonable expectations. He's a critical part of our team. Would I trade him for a significant upgrade at PG? Hell, yes. (I don't buy that stupid big-for-small maxim.) But then, I might trade Pau, too.

3. Ankle, for you of all people to be calling anybody out for riding a particular player's bandwagon is the ultimate case of hypocrisy. Not saying there's anything wrong with playing favorites -- that's part of the fun -- but why do you rage about this when you do the exact same thing? Pot, meet kettle.

To me, the big issue here isn't so much which one gets the top spot on the pecking order but rather team emphasis, as dictated by Phil and, perhaps even a larger degree, Kobe.

We've got two elite caliber post options, and just about every single game, with notable exceptions like the earlier Phoenix game where we made a concerted and consistent effort to pound the ball in the paint, it always seems like neither were utilized properly.

This goes back to our coach and star player. The former has to make this a priority by pounding the idea into our players' heads at every practice, every film session, every shoot around: Dump the ball inside. The latter, as a 14-year veteran, shouldn't need that kind of prompting, especially with the physical issues he's dealing with.

The direction has to come from somewhere, because the rest of our team obviously isn't going to figure it out.

Another issue, despite what Deep will argue, is the fact that these two clearly and obviously don't play well together. Their preferences as low-post players overlap. They don't have nearly enough skills to complement each other. Maybe if we wanted to stick Pau out on the perimeter and hoist up mid-range Js at a 33% clip, which is what he's shooting right now. Otherwise, both need time, space and touches in the low post to be effective.

Put another way -- you wouldn't just throw a bunch of deep threats out on the football field together. You need balance -- somebody to stretch the field, somebody to work underneath, somebody who can make critical third-down catches. It's the same issue here, compounded by the fact that our 3-point shooting has been mediocre.

Ideally, there would be more high/low balance, and one would focus on offense and the other defense, a la Robinson and Duncan. But I'm just about convinced I've got a better chance of finding Lucy Pinder waiting naked in bed for me when I get home, so that's not a realistic hope any more.

So, barring a complete sea change in our attitude, and we need to choose a go-to guy in the fourth quarter...this is even a question?

Andrew continues to develop. He's a quality player who proves that he can produce when he gets touches. But how, exactly, has Pau failed us on this account?

Deep, you say you can pinpoint at least four games we've lost because of Pau's softness -- well, what about the others we've won because of him? What about the job he did last year in the Finals? More recently, what about the dominant fourth quarter he put up against the Knicks?

You can't play any better than he did -- 10 points, five boards, three blocks, two assists, a drawn charge -- yet afterward there was nothing but mewling about how Andrew didn't get any time in the fourth quarter. When pressed on the matter, a few guys tossed off some marginal compliments ("He played a good quarter, I'll give him that"; gee, how generous) and went back to the subject at hand.

I mean, if there was legitimate proof that Andrew was producing better, then I'd buy this. But he's not. Their effective FGs are almost exactly the same. Pau draws more slightly more free throws. He's a slightly better rebounder. He's an infinitely better passer than Andrew -- a flaw that only becomes more pronounced when games get tighter, possessions more valuable and the opponent knows they can fluster him with double teams.

I know you hate this stuff, Deep, but advanced measures show we score about six points per game more with Gasol on the court than Andrew. No matter how much you blow it off, that's tangible, numerical evidence that we're a more effective offensive team with Pau on the court.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Pau has actually proven himself in the playoffs. Has he had some bad moments? For sure, but even Kobe's fallen on his face on numerous occasions. Andrew, on the other hand, has yet to show he can play well in a single playoff series.

So, other than the fact Gasol doesn't pass the pick-up-game smell test with his skin tone and finesse style, what exactly are we complaining about here?

Come on Pau has barely been back from injury..

We are still doing ok, keeping games close and losing by a one possession here and there.
Both the Cavs and the Raptors game could have gone our way and we would not have had this thread..

Pau did win us the ring last year, and bad luck with bynum has always failed at crucial moments , the last two years.. Imagine with bynum healthy we would have had a 3 peat..

So let us not give up on Pau so early.. Bynum has the size but still has a long way to go as shown by his matchup against Shaq.. He needs to learn to make outlet passes like Shaq and Pau make and stay on the floor without gathering fouls, Altering shots..

I still think Pau is our best option in the post..

kevin_405 wrote:Come on Pau has barely been back from injury..

We are still doing ok, keeping games close and losing by a one possession here and there.
Both the Cavs and the Raptors game could have gone our way and we would not have had this thread..

Pau did win us the ring last year, and bad luck with bynum has always failed at crucial moments , the last two years.. Imagine with bynum healthy we would have had a 3 peat..

So let us not give up on Pau so early.. Bynum has the size but still has a long way to go as shown by his matchup against Shaq.. He needs to learn to make outlet passes like Shaq and Pau make and stay on the floor without gathering fouls, Altering shots..

I still think Pau is our best option in the post..

With Bynum healthy this would have been a completely different team. Had Bynum been healthy I doubt we would have acquired Gasol. Marc Gasol would also be on the Lakers.

Great post Sedale. I was going to defend Pau but I know Deep and Ankle wouldn't listen.

I have to say Bynum is hands down the better and more efficient scorer in the post compared Gasol this year. I don't know if I would feature Bynum more than we are now though, like Phil I'm going to trust Gasol in the long run and closing out the playoffs.

But what Bynum is showing us is he's going to hit that next level in the next year. Does anyone think that Bynum's knee is getting stronger as the season goes on? There was that stretch where he looked like he was laboring on that knee about a month ago, but now he's got his lift back which we haven't seen for a while. I haven't thought about the words "athletic" together with Bynum since before the two knee injuries, but I think he's got the confidence back to get up in the air a little more and his knee is responding well.

Two years ago Bynum probably got 75% of his points from Kobe assists, the triangle, and his ability to catch a lob. Since then he hasn't been able to get up there and finish the lob pass and he's been doing his work with his post game. Now I think he's ready to throw it all together and grab those lobs and score at will in the post.

Anklebreaker702 wrote:

The Skyhook wrote:Sounds great but Phil will always have it his way and his way doesn't include Drew getting the post.

DEEP is right though. Drew has been dominant & has been rebounding well to go with his scoring. He was 1 short of a double double tonight.

oh yeah I totally agree with DEEP. I am not for trading Bynum and would be against it but I have stated before that Bynum seems to be in Jackson's dog house for a while now and I'm sure he inst happy. Its almost as if he doesn't care for Bynum. Some players need to be encouraged differently. Phil seems to approach things in only one way and that isn't the way Bynum should be approached. Bynum should be rewarded for doing well early on in the game and should not be sat for the majority of the 4th. The way Phil plays Lamar you would think Bynum is the 6th man.

I fear that management might see this and attempt to move Bynum to satisfy Phil Jackson. I personally am against the way Phil has been handling things but then again who am I to say anything. The man has 10 championships on his resume so he must know what hes doing whether fans like it or not.

Pau needs a shot doctor, his shooting form needs a lot of work. IMO it's Gasol's inability to spread the floor with his shooting ability (ala KG) that has hurt the Pau/ Bynum front court duo.