RealGM

Bryant - 22.1 fgapg - 45.8%
Gasol - 12.6 fgapg - 52.6%
Bynum - 10.7 fgapg - 56.8%
Artest - 9.7 fgapg - 41.5%
Odom - 8.6 fgapg - 46.3%
Brown - 6.9 fgapg - 43.9%
Fisher - 6.8 fgapg - 38.4%
Farmar - 6.4 fgapg - 44.3%

Anyone else notice a problem here. It is time for Phil and Kobe to figure out that Kobe needs to scale back the attempts. Kobe on average attempts nearly as many shots as Gasol and Bynum combined. That is the main reason that Gasol and Bynum aren't working out together. Our guards seem to struggle passing into the post, and Kobe is taking way too many shots. Interesting fact, Lebron plays with less talent around him, yet he only averages 20.1 fgapg (even though he manages to shoot over 50%, imagine if he could start hitting 3's at a more respectable clip). We need to find a way to get more attempts for Gasol and Bynum. Just for reference Blatche gets 20.3 fgapg!!! (in 16 games since the Jamison trade), Nowitski gets 18.8 fgapg, Jamison gets 17.1 (WAS) + 14.5 (CLE) fgapg, Bosh + Randolph get 16.6 fgapg, Kaman gets 16 fgapg, Stoudemire gets 15.3 fgapg, Lee + West get 15.2 fgapg, Jefferson gets 15.1 fgapg (down a lot this year), Aldridge gets 14.6 fgapg, Duncan gets 14.5 fgapg, Al Harrington gets 14.3 fgapg, Boozer gets 14.1 fgapg, Bargnani gets 14.0 fgapg, Lopez gets 13.8 fgapg, Bogut gets 13.4 fgapg, Beasley gets 13.3 fgapg, and Scola gets 12.7 fgapg. All of those are PF's and C's that get more fgapg than Gasol or Bynum get. We need to look more like this.

Bryant - 17 fgapg - 49-51%
Gasol - 15 fgapg - 51-53%
Bynum 14 fgapg - 53-56%
Odom 10 fgapg - 47-49% (we need his extra shots to be in the paint thus the % increase)
Artest 8 fgapg - 43-45%
Brown - 6 fgapg - 43-45%
Fisher - 6 fgapg - 40-43%
Farmar - 6 fgapg - 43-45%

That team would be absolutely dominant, the sad part is that is our team, only difference is that is them playing right on offense. We should be the best offensive team in the league, period. Yet some games we actually seem to struggle greatly. It isn't a talent problem, it is a shot distribution problem.

Also, other than his last year here Shaq was always between 18.1-21.1 fgapg while with us. Plus he got between 9.4-13.1 ftapg showing a lot of other productive post touches.

I agree Kobe could scale back a bit,

i think there's something to the idea that the perception that bynum/gasol isn't working has a lot to do with kobe taking up so many shots. its kinda inexcusable that he takes as many shots as gasol/bynum combined.

Kobe actually averaged 28 shots pg in the year he won the scoring title. He has no need to do that now. He could ave 8 assists if he wanted, I'd like that better.

Yes, I like it nice and rough.

I can agree on the most part but you do realize teams are scouting us like crazy. They know our game plan is to pound the inside which leads to double team kick outs to our perimeter players which are not hitting at a reasonable %. About 4-5 of those kobe attempts where from bail outs.

kobe shouldn't be averaging more than 17-19 fgapg

Tee212 wrote:I can agree on the most part but you do realize teams are scouting us like crazy. They know our game plan is to pound the inside which leads to double team kick outs to our perimeter players which are not hitting at a reasonable %. About 4-5 of those kobe attempts where from bail outs.

Then we have them all fooled, because I have yet to see a week where we make an effort to pound it inside consistently. They think we want to pound it inside, but we really don't, I like it, get 2 7 foot monsters to fool them all.

it's not all kobes fault. how many times during a game does the team give it up to kobe to bail them out wen the shot clock is getting low?

also in the 4th quarter, our lineup should be kobe artest lamar pau bynum. those are our best players...they should be finishing the game.

Tee212 wrote:I can agree on the most part but you do realize teams are scouting us like crazy. They know our game plan is to pound the inside which leads to double team kick outs to our perimeter players which are not hitting at a reasonable %. About 4-5 of those kobe attempts where from bail outs.

This...

22 shots isn't redicukous for Kobe, 19-20 would be better but 22 isn't terrible, especially considering how disfunctional the offense has been at times. Now some of that is Kobe's fault, especially during 'the finger stretch' but I've been way more discouraged by Fish, Farmar, and Browns lack of willingness and ability to pass the ball into the post. Doubly contributing has beenn their lack of consistent shooting too which all too often leaves the ball in Kobe's hands late in the clock with not a whole lot of options. Its that point, sub 7 secs or so where I think he really starts to only trust himself to create something. And rightly so, considering even Pau takes a good 7 or 8 secs to get into what he wants to do unless he has really deep position. Yet another problem, 'pounding it down low' to Pau 10 ft out isn't quite the same thing.

The answer isn't that simple and if you think pounding it in every position is key you just don't understand basketball. You need some sort of outside presence to keep floor balance, otherwise it will just get packed in and sloppy. Offense has looked better getting it inside last few games, but look at the front lines we went up against... The one thing I think we need to do much better though is at least getting the inside touch earlier and more often. WAY too often the wings just look inside for a few secs then swing, without ever entering. Thats the inside out offense we need more then just straight pounding it in for shots. Thats the biggest problem our guards have had, Kobe included much of the time. The amount of shots guy are getting isn't a direct correlation to how we attack the paint. If Kobe is getting the majority of his shots on post play, open kickouts, and dives/drives to the bucket then him getting up 25+ shots is a really good thing and often means the D is collapsing on the bigs and we are spacing and attacking properly. Lots of jumpshots and late in the clock bailouts is what Kobe needs to not shot, but much of the time the team needs to help out a bit with that to avoid those situations. The key is not the amount of Kobe's shots, its the type...

Also comparing straight up shot totals to the other guys isn't exactly correct, factor in FTs and turnovers and guys like Bron and Mello are taking more shots and using more possessions overall. USG and Shot totals he's right there between 6th and 3rd which despite the talent on the team but considering who he is and his gifts... is about right...

Ideally he'd shot a little less and the team more, but causality is sometimes reversed, and more often in my opinion. To put it better, more often to me Kobe shoots less because the offense is running better not The offense runs better because Kobe is shooting less... make sense? Not always the truth, runs the other was too, but from my own observation I think its the former more often...

I've been saying it forever.

Gasol and Bynum can only be sucessful together with a pass first PG who "wills" the ball inside.

I wish Kobe could be that type of cerebral dude who consisently sacrafices his game but he's never really consistently shown that capacity ... even with Shaq.

Kobe plays too much like Jordan and not enough like Magic or LeBron.

With our current roster, we need a Magic not a Jordan.

Unfortunately, eventually one our centers will have to be dealt because Kobe CAN'T be our "unselfish, floor general" for 3 and a half quarters.

I have no idea why other people don't get it


BYNUM AVERAGE 10 attempts/ GAME

GASOL AVERAGE 12.6 attempts/ GAME

12.6 + 10 = 22.6

THAT IS TWO ALL STAR CALIBER 7 FOOTERS

KOBE AVERAGE 22 attempts/ GAME

that's inexcusable

ohh and 22 apg is the highest in the league right now

because if we keep pounding it inside, teams are going to sag off and block off the paint. if you guys havent realised by now, teams are daring the lakers to make shots over their clogged lane.

you cant expect oppositions not to notice how talented our bigs/kobe are in the post, or how well we do in regards to inside scoring and not design their defenses to compensate. theyre thinking, "if they make shots, they deserve to win. if we let them have easy shots in and around the bucket, we deserve to lose."

if we go into the post all the time, teams adjust, and we end up with something like the @charlotte game, where theyll overplay and deny the post entry pass and try to muck up our lobs/bounce passes into the paint.

thats why in some games, we're taking 25+ 3pt attempts just to space the floor at times.

thats why kobe jacks so much from mid-range, sure not all of kobe's shots are in the flow, but teams are giving him single cover. again, teams design their defenses against kobe first and foremost. but the idea is not to allow the lakers to have balanced scoring, they probably think they have a better chance at winning if kobe goes into jack-mode then if 5-7 lakers score in double figures, and theyre right in that regard.

the solution to this will always be to make shots, to force the opposition to open up space in the paint to operate.

chefy wrote:ohh and 22 apg is the highest in the league right now

assists per game

supaflash wrote:

Tee212 wrote:I can agree on the most part but you do realize teams are scouting us like crazy. They know our game plan is to pound the inside which leads to double team kick outs to our perimeter players which are not hitting at a reasonable %. About 4-5 of those kobe attempts where from bail outs.

This...

22 shots isn't redicukous for Kobe, 19-20 would be better but 22 isn't terrible, especially considering how disfunctional the offense has been at times. Now some of that is Kobe's fault, especially during 'the finger stretch' but I've been way more discouraged by Fish, Farmar, and Browns lack of willingness and ability to pass the ball into the post. Doubly contributing has beenn their lack of consistent shooting too which all too often leaves the ball in Kobe's hands late in the clock with not a whole lot of options. Its that point, sub 7 secs or so where I think he really starts to only trust himself to create something. And rightly so, considering even Pau takes a good 7 or 8 secs to get into what he wants to do unless he has really deep position. Yet another problem, 'pounding it down low' to Pau 10 ft out isn't quite the same thing.

The answer isn't that simple and if you think pounding it in every position is key you just don't understand basketball. You need some sort of outside presence to keep floor balance, otherwise it will just get packed in and sloppy. Offense has looked better getting it inside last few games, but look at the front lines we went up against... The one thing I think we need to do much better though is at least getting the inside touch earlier and more often. WAY too often the wings just look inside for a few secs then swing, without ever entering. Thats the inside out offense we need more then just straight pounding it in for shots. Thats the biggest problem our guards have had, Kobe included much of the time. The amount of shots guy are getting isn't a direct correlation to how we attack the paint. If Kobe is getting the majority of his shots on post play, open kickouts, and dives/drives to the bucket then him getting up 25+ shots is a really good thing and often means the D is collapsing on the bigs and we are spacing and attacking properly. Lots of jumpshots and late in the clock bailouts is what Kobe needs to not shot, but much of the time the team needs to help out a bit with that to avoid those situations. The key is not the amount of Kobe's shots, its the type...

Also comparing straight up shot totals to the other guys isn't exactly correct, factor in FTs and turnovers and guys like Bron and Mello are taking more shots and using more possessions overall. USG and Shot totals he's right there between 6th and 3rd which despite the talent on the team but considering who he is and his gifts... is about right...

Ideally he'd shot a little less and the team more, but causality is sometimes reversed, and more often in my opinion. To put it better, more often to me Kobe shoots less because the offense is running better not The offense runs better because Kobe is shooting less... make sense? Not always the truth, runs the other was too, but from my own observation I think its the former more often...

+1
This just pound it in stuff is driving me crazy! The difference in this team right now is Andrew Bynum. He has decided to play like the second option on this team and it shows. He is getting out on the PnR, jumping twice for rebounds, and running the floor with a purpose and playing great defense. His play is amazing. He's guarding the other centers at the three point line. He's bending his knees and getting low. People that are talking about Kobes shots arent watching the games. Its all Bynum, The kid is hitting his stride like he did in January the past couple of years. He is finally healthy...He's taking care of his body more by spending time with the trainers and its all coming out to be a positive. Kobe reiterate again on FOXSPORTS radio today that the difference is Bynum is not playing second fiddle to Gasol anymore or backing down to Gasol. We can continue to talking about whos taking the shots on a team that averages around 103pts per game, or we can talk about Artest and the defense he's been playing, or How Bynum has really stepped it up.

iamworthy wrote:

supaflash wrote:

Tee212 wrote:I can agree on the most part but you do realize teams are scouting us like crazy. They know our game plan is to pound the inside which leads to double team kick outs to our perimeter players which are not hitting at a reasonable %. About 4-5 of those kobe attempts where from bail outs.

This...

22 shots isn't redicukous for Kobe, 19-20 would be better but 22 isn't terrible, especially considering how disfunctional the offense has been at times. Now some of that is Kobe's fault, especially during 'the finger stretch' but I've been way more discouraged by Fish, Farmar, and Browns lack of willingness and ability to pass the ball into the post. Doubly contributing has beenn their lack of consistent shooting too which all too often leaves the ball in Kobe's hands late in the clock with not a whole lot of options. Its that point, sub 7 secs or so where I think he really starts to only trust himself to create something. And rightly so, considering even Pau takes a good 7 or 8 secs to get into what he wants to do unless he has really deep position. Yet another problem, 'pounding it down low' to Pau 10 ft out isn't quite the same thing.

The answer isn't that simple and if you think pounding it in every position is key you just don't understand basketball. You need some sort of outside presence to keep floor balance, otherwise it will just get packed in and sloppy. Offense has looked better getting it inside last few games, but look at the front lines we went up against... The one thing I think we need to do much better though is at least getting the inside touch earlier and more often. WAY too often the wings just look inside for a few secs then swing, without ever entering. Thats the inside out offense we need more then just straight pounding it in for shots. Thats the biggest problem our guards have had, Kobe included much of the time. The amount of shots guy are getting isn't a direct correlation to how we attack the paint. If Kobe is getting the majority of his shots on post play, open kickouts, and dives/drives to the bucket then him getting up 25+ shots is a really good thing and often means the D is collapsing on the bigs and we are spacing and attacking properly. Lots of jumpshots and late in the clock bailouts is what Kobe needs to not shot, but much of the time the team needs to help out a bit with that to avoid those situations. The key is not the amount of Kobe's shots, its the type...

Also comparing straight up shot totals to the other guys isn't exactly correct, factor in FTs and turnovers and guys like Bron and Mello are taking more shots and using more possessions overall. USG and Shot totals he's right there between 6th and 3rd which despite the talent on the team but considering who he is and his gifts... is about right...

Ideally he'd shot a little less and the team more, but causality is sometimes reversed, and more often in my opinion. To put it better, more often to me Kobe shoots less because the offense is running better not The offense runs better because Kobe is shooting less... make sense? Not always the truth, runs the other was too, but from my own observation I think its the former more often...

+1
This just pound it in stuff is driving me crazy! The difference in this team right now is Andrew Bynum. He has decided to play like the second option on this team and it shows. He is getting out on the PnR, jumping twice for rebounds, and running the floor with a purpose and playing great defense. His play is amazing. He's guarding the other centers at the three point line. He's bending his knees and getting low. People that are talking about Kobes shots arent watching the games. Its all Bynum, The kid is hitting his stride like he did in January the past couple of years. He is finally healthy...He's taking care of his body more by spending time with the trainers and its all coming out to be a positive. Kobe reiterate again on FOXSPORTS radio today that the difference is Bynum is not playing second fiddle to Gasol anymore or backing down to Gasol. We can continue to talking about whos taking the shots on a team that averages around 103pts per game, or we can talk about Artest and the defense he's been playing, or How Bynum has really stepped it up.

Good topic. Simple math is right. Just like last night game. Both Bynum & Gasol should have had more looks.

cmon guyss 22 fga!

KOBE IS LEADING THE LEAGUE IN FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS!

and hes in a team that has gasol,bynum,artest,odom!!!

Why can't we do simple math? Pound it inside!!!

I did that and have 4 kids now.