Are the Coyotes headed back to Winnipeg?

[WEFFPIM]

I would urge you to not use a slanted, biased website to get your information. That's like saying we should watch Fox News to get the full story.

[KGISDAMAN]

alright tell me where the website is wrong with its information then? of course some of the website seems a little biased, it is a return of the jets website lol . but you cant argue with facts.

keep the team in phoneix and keep losing millions every year?

what are the other options besides winnipeg right now. quebec with no arena or kc no owner?

winnipeg has both and is the best option for the nhl right now if the have to relocate a team.

[WEFFPIM]

The best option is to not relocate the team, figure out a deal that makes Glendale and Goldwater happy, put Hulsizer in charge and grow in Phoenix. Period.

In fact, looking at the website, I don't see many actual facts as to why Winnipeg will be a good market other than there's an owner with interest. Things like "the building will be loud," and "this is a hockey city" aren't facts.

And funny thing about the whole CBA topic they address, saying the new CBA allows teams in different types of markets to succeed...isn't that a good reason to keep the team in Phoenix? This part's my favorite:

It is now understood that league parity is an important factor for a competitive and exciting league. Revenue sharing also allows those teams with smart front offices to recieve financial help if, despite spending adequate money each year, they still report a loss. The new CBA also links league revenues to players salaries. This now puts Winnipeg in a favourable category in the players minds. As they play in half-empty arenas in a dozen current NHL markets they now view Winnipeg as an ideal choice to relocate. This is because they realize that Winnipeg can generate more revenue than many teams because we buy hockey at full price and actually show up at the games.

That's a prediction, not a fact, and a pretty difficult one to swallow considering one player has already voiced his displeasure about possibly moving to Winnipeg.

I also love how the site says the NBA creates the need for the size of the buildings it's in. The two leagues share 10 buildings with each other across two countries, removing just a few hundred seats to transition from basketball to hockey. Half the NBA operated at under 90% capacity this season, just a third for the NHL. The NBA was the worst comparison this site could have made to try and explain why it would have the smallest building in the NHL by nearly 2,000 seats.

I spent five minutes on this site and find these problems in that span. Like I said, this site isn't a information page, it's a rallying cry. It says nothing about the financial benefits of moving a team to Winnipeg versus keeping a team in Glendale. In fact, I haven't found any dollar amounts on here except for potential ticket prices (lulz).

If you want actual information for all of this, use the AP.

[KGISDAMAN]

ya i should have been clear, i meant the message board on jetowner not the actual website if people wanted information. like every ap article is posted and discussed on the message board. things that twri7 were saying were not true or had more to it.

i understand why the nhl would want teams in phoenix and atlanta im not that stupid lol, but it is just not working. how is having a owner in phoenix gonna all of a sudden change things , how much time do you wait and how much money do you lose before it works?

they signed that new tv contract so i guess they dont have to worry about getting a new one for 10 years so there free to relocate teams lol. but it would be good for the nhl in 10 years to have phoenix and atlanta instead of winnipeg and quebec when looking for a new big money tv contract

[darth_federer]

1) The Coyotes averaged 14k or whatever but a lot of the tickets were given away and they re also very cheap

2) The Lightning might fill up the place but is there brand loyalty? Fans stop showing up if the team sucks and the team ends up losing millions. Its very hard to do business in a place like that because you essentially need to win every year. dont see Hulk Hogan at games anymore.

3) Yes the growth of the league is in the US but Phoenix is just a huge waste of money. Look if you want to move it to Kansas City go ahead, but Phoenix is a deep dark pit and the NHL is just wasting 25 million a year there.

[WEFFPIM]

1. Every team gives tickets away. Plus, they don't give out merchandise and concessions with the tickets, those are still bought.

2. You just described certain teams in every professional sports league. Hell, the Chicago Cubs aren't selling out every game anymore, is there a question of brand loyalty there? Same with the Oakland Raiders. What about the Toronto Raptors?

3. I think with a proper owner committed to growing the product in Phoenix, it think it can thrive like San Jose has thrived. The on-the-ice product is there now, get a competent off-the-ice team running things and it can succeed. People look at this year's attendance numbers and say "See? It's not working." But this season, the Coyotes had next to no marketing budget and the still massive dark cloud hanging over them that the team could leave. The one thing the Coyotes have never had in their time there is a smart owner and a good team at once. It can work in Phoenix.

[trwi7]

it is possible for the mts center to expand a little bit if they wanted.

I heard there's no way they can expand with the roof the way it is.

only 960 more fans true , however winnipeg fans will be paying a lot more for tickets lol . tickets are pretty cheap in phoneix.

A lot more?

Compare ticket prices between Phoenix, Calgary and Edmonton.

http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=56861

http://flames.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=40762

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=33825

The Coyotes price higher on their "expensive seats" while the Flames and Oilers price higher on the "cheap seats."

They just aren't going to jack up ticket prices that high in that small a market because if you go too high, games won't sell out no matter how much fans like the sport.

what city do u suggest they move the team to?

Houston (the Aeros get great support) with expensive tickets (for the AHL anyways) I might add and they're always near the top in attendance. There are a ton of people in the Houston metro area and they have an NHL ready arena to play in.

Kansas City is the obvious choice. The only sport they would be competing with is the Chiefs who play once a week and they have the Sprint Center.

Ontario deserves another team before Winnipeg, they have enough people to support one. Not that I endorse a team moving there.

Pacific Northwest could use a team. Seattle would need a new arena and I'm not sure Portland could support both the Blazers and an NHL team, but if they felt they could I would move a team there.

Milwaukee (homer pick) if the Bucks ever move they could be a possibility. The Bradley Center was built for an NHL team and while it's out of date they could probably update it enough to make it a better option than Winnipeg.

[KGISDAMAN]

they can expand a LITTLE if the wanted by adding 4 suites in each four corners or extra seats in some sports , im pretty sure it was gm place that added suites after the original construction.

15,000 is still better than the 12,098 that they maybe get at games. have you seen pictures of games no people there at all in the lower bowl where the expensive seats are. tons of detroit fans in the playoffs.

it could have something to do with moving to glendale instead of scottsdale which is where a lot of the original fans are. ive read that it is a long drive from scottsdale or phoenix especially when its during the week with traffic. i know the nfl is in glendale but that's only 8 games and on weekends, and not 41 games.

i agree all those cities are better than winnipeg, if they had both an arena plus owner that was willing to bring a team there. but they dont, winnipeg is the best and possibly the only option right NOW if there is relocation. that could change but as of right now winnipeg is high on the list. hulsizer did mention kc the other day at the meeting between cog and gw but it was out of frustration supposedly.

[Nolan]

Once again, here's my problem with Winnipeg.

The entire province of Manitoba has 1.2 million people. The city of Phoenix alone has 1.4 with a metro area of over 4 million.

The MTS Centre only holds 15,015 for hockey with no place for expansion.

The Coyotes have had an average attendance of 14,055 the last 10 years. That less than 1,000 of what the entire MTS Centre can hold. How much growth is there by adding 960 fans?

I don't know when this whole moving Phoenix to Winnipeg **** storm started but the last two years they've only averaged 12,098. Maybe the speculation of the team moving has driven fans away.

The point about Winnipeg selling out every game isn't a great one imo because of the capacity of MTS Centre. 23 teams this year averaged more than 15,015, 25 teams did in 09-10, 26 teams did in 08-09, 26 teams did in 07-08 and 23 did in 06-07. Where's the earning potential? With 630,000 in Winnipeg and another 600,000 spread out all over the province (the second biggest city in Manitoba is Brandon at 42,000 and they're 2.5 hours away from Winnipeg.)

Even if they sell out every game they're still in the bottom third of attendance and with so few people over such a huge area there's really no place for earning potential.

Keep the team in Phoenix or if you are going to move it, move it to a place that's actually big enough to support a team.

They are planning to expand the MTS Centre and if they get the team i'm sure it'll be done ASAP.

[WEFFPIM]

But how much can they realistically expand it to? They have a long ways to go to even get to Edmonton's capacity.

[KGISDAMAN]

ya not that much lol ,ive heard 16300 -16800 depending on what they decide to do. but you gotta wonder if its even worth the money if its only cheap seats, probably worth it if its suites.

[trwi7]

ya not that much lol ,ive heard 16300 -16800 depending on what they decide to do. but you gotta wonder if its even worth the money if its only cheap seats, probably worth it if its suites.

So it would be the second smallest arena capacity in the smallest market in the NHL where a team has already been moved. Let's not move it there.

[KGISDAMAN]

okay lets keep it where the lowest attendance is in the nhl and where they are losing millions of dollars a year. Calgary, Atlanta ,and Minnesota didn't deserve a second chance either? okay maybe Atlanta didn't.

[trwi7]

Yes, let's keep a team in a place with enough people to go to games and enough money to support the team. Crazy idea, I know.

[WEFFPIM]

The Islanders had the worst attendance last year.

[P.D.B.E.]

Official Attendace imho is a joke

This is a pic of Coyotes-Blue Jackets, 24 march

http://twitpic.com/4czny2

official attendance 11.172 for nhl.com, ahhahahahahahah

[KGISDAMAN]

if more people start spending money to attend games it will work.

2nd lowest then. they have only averaged a couple of hundred more than what the mts center holds the last ten yeas and that was only 2 years they did that. the rest was below 15000.

just have to wait and see what bettman decides to do.

[Nolan]

Yes, let's keep a team in a place with enough people to go to games and enough money to support the team. Crazy idea, I know.

Well it hasn't worked so far and when it comes to hockey population really doesn't seem to mean much. For the most part hockey is the 4th sport in most US cities whereas in Canada Hockey in the numero uno sport. The entire city of Winnipeg, the province or Manitoba and part of Saskatchewan will all be behind the team. Meanwhile in Phoenix the Coyotes have been and always will be an afterthought for most sports fans.

[WEFFPIM]

I'm getting tired of reiterating it, but I'll do it again...the Coyotes, in their time in Phoenix, have NEVER had a competent owner and a competent team at the same time, and have rarely had either. They have the team now, a damn good one. Now a competent owner comes along and forces beyond his and the team's control is forcing the team out.

The NHL wants to see what this team does with both in Phoenix, and the Coyotes should get that opportunity.

[trwi7]

I'm getting tired of reiterating it, but I'll do it again...the Coyotes, in their time in Phoenix, have NEVER had a competent owner and a competent team at the same time, and have rarely had either. They have the team now, a damn good one. Now a competent owner comes along and forces beyond his and the team's control is forcing the team out.

The NHL wants to see what this team does with both in Phoenix, and the Coyotes should get that opportunity.

This. Once again, moving a team to a tiny market with a tiny arena does not scream smart to me. No matter how hockey crazed they are.