Philly acquires Timonen and Hartnell

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Post#21 » by timd1218 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:52 pm

Crowned wrote:#1/#2 defenseman are making 5+ mil a year now. Don't blame Philly for spending that much on Timonen, talk to the Habs. They set the bar this offseason when they gave Markov his contract. To be honest, I'd take Timonen over Markov anyways. Kimo Timonen isn't an average defenseman, he's actually quite underrated...mainly because he's in Nashville and doesn't recieve the recognition that players like McCabe, Kaberle, Souray, Markov, Redden and Chara recieve. They overpaid by approximately $700,000- $900,000 per for him. So what? They had the money to spend, and needed a top notch defenseman, so they went out and signed one.


I'll take Timmonen over the players that are in bold. I guess Montreal did set the bar for defenseman, but Philly did not need to spend 4.2 million a year on a player that averages 20-25 goals a season. That is a joke. You can blame Philly on that one. I think that is going to set the bar high for players who have some potential. Buffalo is really screwed now because before this Hartnell signing, Vanek would have probably gotten a 4 million a year contract. But I think he'll hold out for 6 million.
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Post#22 » by Crowned » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:04 pm

Scott Hartnell was rumoured to be signed for approximately 3.5 mil this offseason. The flyers paid 4.2, without any sort of bidding war.
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Post#23 » by timd1218 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:17 pm

Crowned wrote:Scott Hartnell was rumoured to be signed for approximately 3.5 mil this offseason. The flyers paid 4.2, without any sort of bidding war.


I heard 2.5 - 3 million a season for Hartnell. The Flyers paid 4.2 without any bidding war because every other GM knows how dumb they are for signing him for that much money.
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Post#24 » by Crowned » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:16 pm

You're not going to get Scott Hartnell for 2.5 mil per season, it just wouldn't happen. They overpaid by $700,000 for him, big deal.
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Post#25 » by timd1218 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:43 pm

Crowned wrote:You're not going to get Scott Hartnell for 2.5 mil per season, it just wouldn't happen. They overpaid by $700,000 for him, big deal.


Why not? He hasn't proven himself to be a 3.5 - 4.5 million dollar type guy. All he has right now is potential. He was overpaid by 1-1.5 million a season. Tomas Vanek doubled his goals this season. Should his pay be doubled as well?
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Post#26 » by Crowned » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:29 pm

Why? Because you're not. Harnell scored 22 goals in limited action, while playing on Nashville's third line. He's capable of increasing that total. Hartnell isn't a natural goal scorer like Vanek, so I'm not so sure why you're comparing the two. Hartnell is a 25 year old UFA, which is rare. His gritty style of play, and his 'in your face' mentality is also valuable. Again, he wasn't going to recieve under 3 mil per season from any team. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. He would've probably been offered 3 or so per year, and would then have been increased through bidding wars, which would've likely ended up at 3.5 per. That's how free agency happens. Nowadays, players recieve more than what they're worth.

Again, there's no point in arguing with me because I, like you, believe he's overpaid. However, his value would obviously be much higher on the open market through free agency.
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Post#27 » by timd1218 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:40 am

Crowned wrote:Why? Because you're not. Harnell scored 22 goals in limited action, while playing on Nashville's third line. He's capable of increasing that total. Hartnell isn't a natural goal scorer like Vanek, so I'm not so sure why you're comparing the two. Hartnell is a 25 year old UFA, which is rare. His gritty style of play, and his 'in your face' mentality is also valuable. Again, he wasn't going to recieve under 3 mil per season from any team. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. He would've probably been offered 3 or so per year, and would then have been increased through bidding wars, which would've likely ended up at 3.5 per. That's how free agency happens. Nowadays, players recieve more than what they're worth.

Again, there's no point in arguing with me because I, like you, believe he's overpaid. However, his value would obviously be much higher on the open market through free agency.


I compared Vanek and Hartnell because Vanek can compare his stats with Hartnell's and say since I doubled them, I want double the money, even though they are different type of players.
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Post#28 » by MAS » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:52 am

I agree with Crowned, you aren't going to get Hartnell for 2.5 per season. The guy is a young FA at 25 with some potential left in him. He would have been a well sought out FA.

Given a bidding war, his price probably would've ended up right where it's out now

With that said Vanek>Hartnell and does deserve more than him. However, Vanek doesn't have the leverage Hartnell did cause Vanek is a RFA, he can either sign what Buffalo wants to pay him or go to arbitration. Hartnell was a UFA so he had the power in that negotiation
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Post#29 » by BringBackPopeye » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:58 pm

his price probably would have ended up around what philly got for him, but whichever team ended up paying that bill would be regretting it. He is a solid player, but he's not a front line star and while he still is young, he's old enough that you're pretty sure of what you're going to get for better or worse.

Timonen's deal is terrible, he's overpaid right now, and it's just going to get worse and worse. This guy is not young, and he's signed for 6 years. Trading a first round pick for the privilege of overpaying a couple free agents seems like a questionable move.

People seem to be bagging on markov a bit here, I would put him in timomen's class easily the problem is he doesn't get the press he probably should just because the of the guy he plays with. (like kaberle, underrated, and mccabe, crazy overrated).

The problem with overpaying players 1 mill, 750k here and there might not be a big deal for one player, but consider that if you combine the two (and even I would say 1.75 is on the low end) right there you've got the salary for a pretty solid NHLer. You do that with too many and you end up with a roster like the leafs, a team that was at the cap but really had nothing, and not much in the way of trade value (with the exception of the tucker and kaberle deals)

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