Top 5 forwards in the NHL, goalies and D men

[Mr Swagtastic]

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"playing out of his mind" doesn't necessarily qualify him as a top 5 goaltender this season. There simply has been better players in the position.

Not going to argue with you Crowned, you have your reason (which I respect) and I have mine. I think MAF is a great goalie for the Pens future.

Who should I pick instead? Raycroft and his 37-24-9 record with a .895 save % and 2.94 GAA (Goals agenst avarage)

Maybe I should have picked Jean-Sebastien Giguere over MAF but it's hard to go agenst either of those 2 (JSG or MAF) both have great save % and a good win to loss record.

[moose man]

Theres no doubt in my mind I'd take MAF as my goalie for the future, but right now. He's top 10, just not top 5 in the league at the moment.

[timd1218]

You guys all have valid points as to why he is/isn't a top 5 goalie. Can we all atleast agree he is a top 10?

[moose man]

Yeah I agree with that tim, hes definitely a top 10 goalie right now. Top 3 in 2-3 years.

[peteXmaravich]

of course theyre bad defensively. theyre playing on the cheap back there other than Gonchar (who isnt exactly a shutdown D-man). thats not to say the cheapos havent picked up their game though. but theres a lot of times the offense keeps HIM in the game also. against buffalo hes struggled, 19 shots - 15 saves, they still squeak out the win. thats a save from the offense in my book. his sv% is pretty poor too. hes in the bottom half of the league. his GA is in the bottom half too. great amount of wins thanks to offense. im not saying the kid isnt coming around or he isnt talented. i think just inconsistent still. all there wins this month have been 4+ GOAL wins other than one. hot month but a lot of scoring. his SV% for the month of March has been .887... not exactly amazing.

theres goalies with better stats on worse teams and less wins.
Roloson has pretty solid stats for being on a team that struggles to score and has a defense that can barely get the puck out of the zone + major injuries all year all around.

how many OT wins do the penguins have with 9 losses?
10 SOW / 6 SOL (17 GF - 12 GA)

thats great, but when it gets to the playoffs, theres no more shootouts.
every goalie lets in some squeakers but some of the ones ive seen lately (past month maybe) out of him have been bad. i think every time hes been bailed out.

and using the system as an excuse is kind of weak. every team in the NHL could run that system if they wanted, especially teams with speed like Pittsburgh to clog the neutral zone. Vancouver and NJ just have better goalies / D for it to work at a high percentage. SJ could do it, they dont. so could DET. Minnesota does it and they dont have an amazing D-unit by any means (227 GF).

i want Pburgh to succeed in the playoffs and go all the way. that would be great but i think the biggest problem is going to be weak D and squeaker goals.

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Fluery has one of the best overtime and shootout records. This is when all the pressure is on him. I've seen Brodeur let in worse goals. If Fluery played on a team like New Jersey, Detroit, etc, Fluery would be getting the recognition. These teams have a good offense, and a great defense. Watch 5 Pens games in a row, and then you'd realize just how bad defensively the Pens are. Fluery is a huge reason this team is where it is right now.

[timd1218]

I don't necessarily see how using the system is weak?

Pittsburgh is offensive minded, which will give the defensemen the opportunity to jump into the play and leaving only 1 back. Thus leading to many more scoring opportunities for the other team.

Look at New Jersey and Detroit. New Jersey plays a trap with really good defensemen. So the shots Brodeur's facing, they are the toughest to save. Look at Hasek's Shot Against stats. He's faced 1309 shots. His stats are as good as they are because of the system and the players he has.

[timd1218]

Joe Melichar, Rob Scuderi, Alaine Nasardine.

Joe Melichar has been a top 2 guy for the majority of the season.

These 3 D-Men would not be an option has a D-Men for any other Top 5-10 goalie.

[Crowned]

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Not going to argue with you Crowned, you have your reason (which I respect) and I have mine. I think MAF is a great goalie for the Pens future.

Who should I pick instead? Raycroft and his 37-24-9 record with a .895 save % and 2.94 GAA (Goals agenst avarage)

Maybe I should have picked Jean-Sebastien Giguere over MAF but it's hard to go agenst either of those 2 (JSG or MAF) both have great save % and a good win to loss record.

First of all, I'm not sure where Andrew Raycroft's name came from...just because I'm a Leaf fan doesn't mean I think every player on the team is elite.

There are several other candidates over MAF in the "top 5 category". MAF's age and potential doesn't give him additional benefits and allow him to bump other goaltenders out of the rankings. MAF doesn't have a "great save %", infact, he's amongst the leagues worst in that statistic.

[Crowned]

I don't necessarily see how using the system is weak?

Pittsburgh is offensive minded, which will give the defensemen the opportunity to jump into the play and leaving only 1 back. Thus leading to many more scoring opportunities for the other team.

Look at New Jersey and Detroit. New Jersey plays a trap with really good defensemen. So the shots Brodeur's facing, they are the toughest to save. Look at Hasek's Shot Against stats. He's faced 1309 shots. His stats are as good as they are because of the system and the players he has.

Martin Brodeur has lost defenseman such as Scott Niedermayer and Scott Stevens over the years, and haven't really been replaced. His statistics this season have been better than the majority of his career, when he had the "really good defenseman" infront of him. So far this season, he's got the most wins and shutouts he's ever recorded, and his best save percentage since 1996. Take a look at Brodeur's Shots Against stats...he's faced the most shots out of every goaltender in the NHL.

[Mr Swagtastic]

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First of all, I'm not sure where Andrew Raycroft's name came from...just because I'm a Leaf fan doesn't mean I think every player on the team is elite.

There are several other candidates over MAF in the "top 5 category". MAF's age and potential doesn't give him additional benefits and allow him to bump other goaltenders out of the rankings. MAF doesn't have a "great save %", infact, he's amongst the leagues worst in that statistic.

Can you please name these "other goaltenders"? I am talking this season only so please don't bring up anybody else's numbers from last year or whatever.

A 90.4 save percentage is pretty good and ranks up in the top 30 but some of the players ranked ahead of him have played alot less mins.

[timd1218]

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Martin Brodeur has lost defenseman such as Scott Niedermayer and Scott Stevens over the years, and haven't really been replaced. His statistics this season have been better than the majority of his career, when he had the "really good defenseman" infront of him. So far this season, he's got the most wins and shutouts he's ever recorded, and his best save percentage since 1996. Take a look at Brodeur's Shots Against stats...he's faced the most shots out of every goaltender in the NHL.

He's also played the most amount of games. I'm not saying Fluery is better than Brodeur, I'm saying if Fluery played in a system like Brodeur's and with the D-Men he has this season, his numbers (GAA and Save %) would be higher.

[Crowned]

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Can you please name these "other goaltenders"? I am talking this season only so please don't bring up anybody else's numbers from last year or whatever.

A 90.4 save percentage is pretty good and ranks up in the top 30 but some of the players ranked ahead of him have played alot less mins.

Which goaltenders have been better, playing wise...or statistically?

Statistically better:

Martin Brodeur
Roberto Luongo
Mikka Kiprusoff
Dominik Hasek
Marty Turco
(there's 5 goaltenders right there....how is MAF better than the above list?)
Henrik Lundqvist
JS Giguere
Rick Dipietro
Ray Emery
Kari Lehtonen
Ryan Miller

...the only statistic that MAF excels in is wins. If you want to place emphasis on that statistic, then you've got to place Andrew Raycroft up there with MAF, because they're separated by a single victory.

MAF has a .904 save %, which is comparable to goaltenders such as Ed Belfour, Tim Thomas, Fredrik Norrena and Peter Budaj. Players above him in the category include Manny Legace, Dwyane Roloson and Olaf Kolzig.

MAF has a 2.87 g.a.a...which places him towards the bottom of that category as well. Players above MAF include, Ed Belfour, Kari Lehtonen, Dwyane Roloson and Peter Budaj.

Please inform me how MAF is considered a top 5 goaltender in this league. Again, a single victory separates him from Andrew Raycroft. Has Raycroft been fantastic for the Leafs this season? No. Has he been solid? I think so. I'm not saying MAF hasn't played well this season, or that he deserves the credit he's recieving...but cmon, he's not a top 5 goaltender in the NHL this season.

[Crowned]

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He's also played the most amount of games. I'm not saying Fluery is better than Brodeur, I'm saying if Fluery played in a system like Brodeur's and with the D-Men he has this season, his numbers (GAA and Save %) would be higher.

If he was a top 5 goaltender in the NHL, that excuse wouldn't apply to him. He'd be much better despite who was infront of him. Remember, we're not talking about a weak team in Pittsburgh, we're talking about a team that has 100+ points. Their defenseman do need help, which is their biggest weakness. Again, if MAF were a top 5 (elite) goaltender this season in the NHL, he'd be showing it.

[Rhyno]

Who are the 5 best forwards in the NHL this season?

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Joe Thornton
3. Joe Sakic
4. Vincent Lecavalier
5. Dany Heatley

Who are the 5 best defensemen in the NHL this season?

1. Scott Niedermayer
2. Nicklas Lidstrom
3. Chris Pronger
4. Tomas Kaberle
5. Lubomir Visnovsky

Who are the 5 best goalies in the NHL this season?

1. Martin Brodeur
2. Roberto Luongo
3. Dominik Hasek
4. Ryan Miller
5. Henrik Lundqvist

[The_Child_Prodigy]

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The goalies you just listed, take a look at their defense and them compare them to the Pens defense. It's about 5 times better. With the exception of Luongo, who has 2 times the better D. Just because Gonchar is a top 5 D-man, doesn't mean he is spectacular at playing D. Compared to other top defenseman, he is terrible at playing Defense.

Canuck fans think they have the best defens ein the leauge. Just because they dont hav ena ybig name players on d doesnt mean tehy arnt a great defensive core.

Kiprusoff was playing out of his mind with a much worse offense, dfense and special teams then the Pens in 04 and had a 1.76 GAA. That is special. Fleurym of course is gonna be a leaguenleader in wins becaus ehe has such a high scoring team.

Regher was Kiprusoff's defens eand that was it. Igina on offence not much else. Fleury is in a great situation. Pens are basically always on attack. Thats easy for a goaltender.

He cose Caada the gold, you dont see Brodeur, Kiprusoff or Luongo the Gold do you? That was such a weak goal dont even get me started. Fleury is average and a bust because of whre he was picked at.

[dunkonu21]

#1 Forward=Marion Gaborik
#2 Brian Rolston
#3 Pavol Demitra
#4 Piere-Marc Bouchard
#5 Mikou Koivu

#1 Defensive=Brent Burns
#2 Kim Johnnson
#3 Nick Schultz
#4 Kieth Carney
#5 Umm, Me?

#1 Goalie=Niklas Backstrom
#2 Josh Harding
#3 Manny Fernandez

#1 Meanest Player=Derrek Boogaard

GO WILD!!!!!!

[timd1218]

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Canuck fans think they have the best defens ein the leauge. Just because they dont hav ena ybig name players on d doesnt mean tehy arnt a great defensive core.

Kiprusoff was playing out of his mind with a much worse offense, dfense and special teams then the Pens in 04 and had a 1.76 GAA. That is special. Fleurym of course is gonna be a leaguenleader in wins becaus ehe has such a high scoring team.

Regher was Kiprusoff's defens eand that was it. Igina on offence not much else. Fleury is in a great situation. Pens are basically always on attack. Thats easy for a goaltender.

He cose Caada the gold, you dont see Brodeur, Kiprusoff or Luongo the Gold do you? That was such a weak goal dont even get me started. Fleury is average and a bust because of whre he was picked at.

A. Most fans of their teams will be biased towards their teams.

B. In 2003-2004, when Kiprusoff had a 1.76 GAA, there was no such thing as offense. Goalies didn't have regulations for the size of their equipment like they do today. Teams would be lucky to score 3 + goals then. Goalie stats were inflated.

C. Being a goalie on a team that attacks all the time isn't easy for a goalie. It can easily take them out of a game because they aren't invloved in any action.

D. Saying he is a bust at 22 is just outragous. And Average???? HAHAHAHA. That is a joke. I guess Ryan Miller is average.

[moose man]

a. Fair enough

b. If goalies stats were inflatted then why weren't all the goalies around this mark? you can blame it on pad size, but Kiprusoff never changed the size of his pads. You can say goals weren't scored, thats a fair statement but then why weren't all goalies under 2.00 GAA?

c. Being a goalie on a team with good defense can be just as hard. You are always cold because you face only a limited number of shots. Most goalies say they'd rather face more shots then none at all.

d. I agree, he is much better than average and is far from a bust.

[Islanders82]

1. Crosby
2. Heatley
3. Thornton
4. Jagr
5. Iginla

HM- Hossa, Spezza, Sakic.

Let me see Vinny have more than 1 really good year before he cracks the list.