RealGM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4146333

Apparently they filed chapter 11. Jim Balsillie put in a bid to buy and move them to Southern Ontario. Bettman is skeptical though.

I wish they would go back to Winnipeg instead of southern ontario.

The Toronto area can only have so much suckage. . . send them to Winnipeg, damn it.

But in the end, it could be an epic rivalry like the Habs/NoDicks. Except both teams would be awful while the other two were uber talented.

I know I'm in the minority, but I really, really want them to stay in Phoenix. Bettman is taking Balsillie to bankruptcy court to see if what Moyes did was valid. Unlike David Stern, Gary Bettman is really committed to keeping the 30 teams in their current locations, and if the NHL is trying to get back the US fan base, moving a US team to Canada, well...that's not the way to do that.

WEFFPIM wrote:I know I'm in the minority, but I really, really want them to stay in Phoenix. Bettman is taking Balsillie to bankruptcy court to see if what Moyes did was valid. Unlike David Stern, Gary Bettman is really committed to keeping the 30 teams in their current locations, and if the NHL is trying to get back the US fan base, moving a US team to Canada, well...that's not the way to do that.

NHL expanded too much, too fast in my opinion.

Move them to Milwaukee. Phoenix can take the Bucks if they want them.

sh00n wrote:

WEFFPIM wrote:I know I'm in the minority, but I really, really want them to stay in Phoenix. Bettman is taking Balsillie to bankruptcy court to see if what Moyes did was valid. Unlike David Stern, Gary Bettman is really committed to keeping the 30 teams in their current locations, and if the NHL is trying to get back the US fan base, moving a US team to Canada, well...that's not the way to do that.

NHL expanded too much, too fast in my opinion.

Yeah, I'd agree with that, but I understand why they wanted to expand southward. Phoenix would almost certainly have had a team by now. Did they get one too soon? Maybe. But Winnipeg was hemorrhaging money and Phoenix wanted a team.

I saw another comment on another message board that I think holds some weight here. This was a Canadian team back in the day and that weight has been hanging over this franchise since its move to Phoenix. Canada wants this team back, has always wanted it back. They don't want the Islanders who are, in some ways, in worse shape than the Coyotes. They want their team back.

There was a rumor that Bettman was meeting with Jerry Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf has a home in the Phoenix area and expressed interest in buying the team. Bettman is probably doing everything in his power to persuade Reinsdorf to buy them.

I think the best option to relocate within America is Kansas City. That city wants a winter sport/NHL team.

I think at least one team moving up north will happen eventually, might as well be the Coyotes.

hsb wrote:I think the best option to relocate within America is Kansas City. That city wants a winter sport.

*Cough* Chiefs *Cough*

trwi7 wrote:

hsb wrote:I think the best option to relocate within America is Kansas City. That city wants a winter sport.

*Cough* Chiefs *Cough*

I forgot about Football, probably my least watched sport. Anyways, it still holds true, well maybe if I use the word 'another.'

They have the stadium, the interest and support although not comparable to Ontario. They almost moved Nashville up there to. If there is a city in the States that can get one before Southern Ontario, it would probably be KC.

Jim Balsillie was the one who tried to move the Predators to Ontario as well.

Seriously, move an NHL team to Milwaukee. That's a city that doesn't have a winter sport and we have a hockey arena built.

It will be sad if they move because If they put a winning product on the floor people will come. I still go whether they win or lose but for most other people they only go when they win. The problem is they haven't made the playoffs since 2002 and alot of people gave up on them, from 96-02 the Coyotes were almost talked about as much as the Suns but when they go through a playoff drought for 7 years you can't really blame most fans for not going. Also having Shane Doan as your best player doesn't really help, he was the longest tenered member of the club but he's no Ovechkin or Crosby, if they had a bigger star that would also help.

One last thing would be watching them at home, they only show a select number of games on TV, if they showed everygame it would be better. So it has nothing to do about Phx fans don't like hockey because when they were making the playoffs and during the late 90s and early 00's people were going to games and talking about it.

The heart and soul of Hockey is bred in Southern Ontario. An NHL franchise in Hamilton would draw a much larger audience than any city in the United States currently without an NHL franchise. Balsillie is talking about putting a franchise in the heart and soul of hockey. The Toronto Maple Leafs would be the only team with more draw than Hamilton. It would instantly become the 2nd most popular franchise in the league. It's simple science. Within 1 hour driving distance of Hamilton (not including Toronto) you've got a few million viewers, all hockey fans, who would sell their house for a set of tickets to watch the Hamilton Blackberrys.

Hamilton - 600 thousand
Burlington - 150 thousand
Stoney Creek - 100 thousand
St Catharines - 120 thousand
Kitchener - 200 thousand
Waterloo - 150 thousand
Cambridge - 120 thousand
Brantford - 120 thousand
Mississauga - 800 thousand
Oakville - 300 thousand
Milton - 150 thousand
Guelph - 130 thousand
Brampton - 100 thousand
Stratford - 100 thousand
London - 400 thousand (hour and a half away)

These small cities are where Hockey players are born and raised, and bred. The minor league teams in Junior A sell out their arenas. The rivalry of hockey between these cities is very intense and it's very passionate. That's 3-4 million people within an hour (most of that is within 45 minutes, driveway to parking lot) of Hamilton. Throw in Toronto and the GTA and you've got a draw of between 4 and 6 million people.

I think Bettman has done an excellent job running the NHL for the past decade. He saved the league from disaster in the lockout season, and it's thriving now more than ever. But if he is willing to let his ego get in the way of taking the league most struggling franchise and turning it into an instant success, while feeding the hungry hockey fanatics in Southern Ontario, than I can't help but think he is no longer acting in the best interests of the league.

The bottom line is that an NHL franchise in Southern Ontario would be the best move Gary Bettman and the NHL could possible do.

RoyceDa59 wrote:The bottom line is that an NHL franchise in Southern Ontario would be the best move Gary Bettman and the NHL could possible do.

If he wants to continue to grow the popularity of the NHL in the US, then no it's not. I understand the history and the loyalty of it all, but alienating an entire fanbase who have no other team anywhere close to them to turn to just doesn't seem right. There's teams all around the Southern Ontario area for those fans in Hamilton, etc. to get their NHL fix.

I know I'm pretty much fighting a lost cause since I don't think Reinsdorf will be able to come through. I just think it'll be a mistake to take hockey completely out of the Southwest US.

No doubt this would work and probably be an instant success. I'm sure the GTA (Toronto, Mississauga, Brampton, etc.) would remain loyal and support the Leafs. However, the rest of Southern Ontario like Waterloo and Kitchener would have a team to call their own and probably support the Hamilton team. There's a huge market in Southern Ontario that's just waiting to be tapped.

If expanding to the US is the leagues main goal, than moving a team back to Canada would be a bad move. Which is why Bettman has fought with Balsillie twice before.

There are 2 things that need to be accepted though...

1) The economic crisis has changed everything. The league, which is largely based on revenue sharing, can't just allow southern teams to bleed money while being propped up by the more profitable ones (Canadian teams and major northern American markets, NY, Philly, Det). At some point the other owners are going to just give up Bettmans dream of being on par with the other 3 major sports leagues and go where the money is (Canada).

2) Hockey isn't a new sport in the States anymore. They've tried to put it on National TV many times on just about every network and it fails every time, there's no arguing that. What every market has shown is that they can find a niche crowd who largely make up the people who actually go to games, while being ignored by the mainstream sports fan. In many areas it's on par with arena football, MLS or even Lacrosse and behind NCAA sports. The average American just doesn't care about hockey and you can't keep hoping that they eventually will.

I think the NHL will be forced into targeting the area's that hockey is already proven to be successful simply out of financial need. It's too bad for the fans in Phoenix who actually supported the team and really got into it, but there just weren't enough of them.

Expanding Hockey to the US market is a great idea but we need to take a step back and look at this from a simplistic perspective. There is no need to get creative and try to force hockey down the throats of cities that simply do not enjoy it. The NHL needs to stick to it's core strenghts and leverage opportunities that are painless and obvious. The strongest hockey market in the WORLD is the 200 kilometer stretch between Toronto and London and it does not have a professional hockey team. Why make things complicated? A franchise will sell out every single game, every single year in Hamilton and sell more merchandise than they could print. Hockey is even bigger in this region than it is in Toronto (hard to believe). Toronto is very multicultural but once you step beyond the outskirts of the GTA, you've got dozens of medium sized cities (100-200 thousand) that eat, breath and live hockey. Hamilton is 600 thousand strong, and it is a perfect central hub to draw from the entire Southern Ontario market. Moving Phoenix to Toronto is not giving up on the dream or plan to increase the popularity of hockey in the states, but rather it is a simple business decision to take the league most struggling franchise (in the worst professional hockey city in North America) and move it to the most popular hockey spot on the planet. In any business situation, if you can take your worst franchise / asset and move it to the top of the pile, you go ahead and do it without thinking twice. It's time to keep things simple, and the move from Phoenix to Hamilton is a no brainer.

Hartford again?

RoyceDa59 wrote:Expanding Hockey to the US market is a great idea but we need to take a step back and look at this from a simplistic perspective. There is no need to get creative and try to force hockey down the throats of cities that simply do not enjoy it. The NHL needs to stick to it's core strenghts and leverage opportunities that are painless and obvious. The strongest hockey market in the WORLD is the 200 kilometer stretch between Toronto and London and it does not have a professional hockey team. Why make things complicated? A franchise will sell out every single game, every single year in Hamilton and sell more merchandise than they could print. Hockey is even bigger in this region than it is in Toronto (hard to believe). Toronto is very multicultural but once you step beyond the outskirts of the GTA, you've got dozens of medium sized cities (100-200 thousand) that eat, breath and live hockey. Hamilton is 600 thousand strong, and it is a perfect central hub to draw from the entire Southern Ontario market. Moving Phoenix to Toronto is not giving up on the dream or plan to increase the popularity of hockey in the states, but rather it is a simple business decision to take the league most struggling franchise (in the worst professional hockey city in North America) and move it to the most popular hockey spot on the planet. In any business situation, if you can take your worst franchise / asset and move it to the top of the pile, you go ahead and do it without thinking twice. It's time to keep things simple, and the move from Phoenix to Hamilton is a no brainer.

Why not move to the Raptors to the USA since there in Canada which is clearly not a basketball market? As for the "worst hockey city in America" when the Coyotes made the playoffs they sold out games. They were talked about as much of the Suns. They did pretty well from 96-02 and you never heard any talk about it being a bad move than. The problem is they havent made the playoffs since 2002 and that's the main reason they are in this mess. I still go to games and alot of other people do also, it's not like half the arena is empty it's still pretty full. It's not like people arn't interested in hockey because when they were winning they were the talk of the town. If they move to w/e sure they may sell out because it's like a new toy but once they don't make the playoffs for another 7 years I'd like to see how many people still support them.

SUNSARETHEBEST wrote:

RoyceDa59 wrote:Expanding Hockey to the US market is a great idea but we need to take a step back and look at this from a simplistic perspective. There is no need to get creative and try to force hockey down the throats of cities that simply do not enjoy it. The NHL needs to stick to it's core strenghts and leverage opportunities that are painless and obvious. The strongest hockey market in the WORLD is the 200 kilometer stretch between Toronto and London and it does not have a professional hockey team. Why make things complicated? A franchise will sell out every single game, every single year in Hamilton and sell more merchandise than they could print. Hockey is even bigger in this region than it is in Toronto (hard to believe). Toronto is very multicultural but once you step beyond the outskirts of the GTA, you've got dozens of medium sized cities (100-200 thousand) that eat, breath and live hockey. Hamilton is 600 thousand strong, and it is a perfect central hub to draw from the entire Southern Ontario market. Moving Phoenix to Toronto is not giving up on the dream or plan to increase the popularity of hockey in the states, but rather it is a simple business decision to take the league most struggling franchise (in the worst professional hockey city in North America) and move it to the most popular hockey spot on the planet. In any business situation, if you can take your worst franchise / asset and move it to the top of the pile, you go ahead and do it without thinking twice. It's time to keep things simple, and the move from Phoenix to Hamilton is a no brainer.

Why not move to the Raptors to the USA since there in Canada which is clearly not a basketball market? As for the "worst hockey city in America" when the Coyotes made the playoffs they sold out games. They were talked about as much of the Suns. They did pretty well from 96-02 and you never heard any talk about it being a bad move than. The problem is they havent made the playoffs since 2002 and that's the main reason they are in this mess. I still go to games and alot of other people do also, it's not like half the arena is empty it's still pretty full. It's not like people arn't interested in hockey because when they were winning they were the talk of the town. If they move to w/e sure they may sell out because it's like a new toy but once they don't make the playoffs for another 7 years I'd like to see how many people still support them.

Couldn;t agree more with this. Look at the Pens. When the team sucked for 3 seasons, average attendance was awful. It happens to every team, except Toronto and Montreal.