Buyer won seller won deadline done

[MasterIchiro]

Which buyer won the deadline?

Which seller won the deadline?

I have Knicks winning as buyer. Anunoby, Bog, Burks, Precious. No outgoing 1sts mortgaged.

Hornets front office negotiated the best deadline for the sellers,.

Your top buyer and seller?

[jayjaysee]

I’d have Charlotte winning if they only did either the Dallas or Miami trade. Doing both makes them the clear winner to me.

Dallas gave up the most value, but got “the most” better... So while I feel they’re the losers, there’s still a chance it all works out. They still could upset the fan base further and trade Lively and the rest of the picks for a younger star this offseason?

I’d have the losers as the teams that did nothing though. Namely the ones with guys who don’t have too many runs left (Curry/LBJ).. but really I think I’m looking at the warriors. Once LaVine got hurt, I really didn’t know who LAL could afford because o don’t blame them for wanting a star for that last first round pick. And no star costs only one first round pick.

Golden State though.. They have the salary matching ability. They have the ability to trade picks that aren’t 5 years out.. They have some youth they could trade.. Their star is older, but they have a 2-3 year window with him..

Chicago also. Sitting still with an old roster that’s fighting for the play-in, but doesn’t have a top 20 player.. and their best player is a pending UFA.. and the only pick they owe is well protected.. or we probably would’ve mostly laughed at a win now move, but at least it would have been something.

TLDR:

Dallas and Miami lost as actual buyers. Philly and NY won as buyers. Small moves but really nice around edges. OKC took a good bet, but should’ve cut Dallas out.

The actual sellers that lost? I thought Washington could’ve done better. I think Utah and Toronto both made some weird choices

[Fencer reregistered]

As discussed in another thread, there was scope for a win-win deal between Brooklyn and Houston:

-- Houston returns picks to Brooklyn and gets generous value for them.
-- Brooklyn then increases the value of those picks by tanking.

So they're joint losers by not actually making that happen.

[brackdan70]

Which buyer won the deadline?

Which seller won the deadline?

I have Knicks winning as buyer. Anunoby, Bog, Burks, Precious. No outgoing 1sts mortgaged.

Hornets front office negotiated the best deadline for the sellers,.

Your top buyer and seller?

I’d agree with you. I kind of liked Indiana adding Siakam and moving Hield.

I was thrilled with the Celtics moves in Tillman and Springer for 3 seconds and 2 guys who don’t play.

Miami acquiring Rozier seemed a surprisingly bad move.

[K_chile22]

As discussed in another thread, there was scope for a win-win deal between Brooklyn and Houston:

-- Houston returns picks to Brooklyn and gets generous value for them.
-- Brooklyn then increases the value of those picks by tanking.

So they're joint losers by not actually making that happen.

I don't really see how Houston is a loser for not blowing through their draft capital to make a win now trade on a team that is primarily 22 and under outside of two starters and end of bench guys, and not even getting an all star back

[MoneyTalks41890]

Not a lot of high level action, but I think Utah and Charlotte did well in targeted sell offs.

[JKiddy]

As discussed in another thread, there was scope for a win-win deal between Brooklyn and Houston:

-- Houston returns picks to Brooklyn and gets generous value for them.
-- Brooklyn then increases the value of those picks by tanking.

So they're joint losers by not actually making that happen.

It seems like the Nets by not trading Bridges to "redo" any mistakes made with Harden. It seems this way with the makeup of the team taking place over the next 24 months. If they get the 1 to Bridges 2 or 2b then the Nets won here. If not, and it comes out that Houston was giving up 5 picks and Whitmore then it might have been a mistake. We won't know this information nor the results for 2 years.

Remind me at that time and let's discuss then.

[jbk1234]

The Hornets won.

I don't know that Dallas lost as badly as people are making out. It really comes down to how much value that 2027 1st would've held in a future trade, and whether it would've been enough to land a real difference maker. That always seemed pretty optimistic to me. Luka and Kyrie are on the team now. If you look at where the Clippers and Suns are weak, it's the frontcourt. The Mavs prospects of advancing are better than what they were on Monday.

I suspect the Lakers will be happy they didn't trade that 2029 1st in the long-term. Their window has closed, and if you're not honest with yourself about that, all you're going to do is make the hangover longer and worse.

I feel similarly about GS. People will say they should've put Kuminga into a deal with Klay or CP3 and gotten a difference maker, but if you push them on who that person is, there's no clear answer. Once O.G. was traded to the Knicks, that player was no longer on the market.

I have the Pistons, Nets, and Blazers as losers. Detroit for not trading Bojan and Burks last season when their value was higher (I do like them nabbing Grimes tho).

Maybe the Nets are convinced Mitchell won't extend this summer, but if he does, they really should move Bridges and DFS rather burn through more of those team-friendly deals.

The Blazers should've traded Brogdon for the best return they could get. I don't know how you watch what happened with O'Neale and Bojan and decide waiting was the better play.

The Heat lost when they traded that pick for Rozier.

[Fencer reregistered]

As discussed in another thread, there was scope for a win-win deal between Brooklyn and Houston:

-- Houston returns picks to Brooklyn and gets generous value for them.
-- Brooklyn then increases the value of those picks by tanking.

So they're joint losers by not actually making that happen.

I don't really see how Houston is a loser for not blowing through their draft capital to make a win now trade on a team that is primarily 22 and under outside of two starters and end of bench guys, and not even getting an all star back

I'm not claiming the precise trade in any particular rumor was good for Houston. I'm just claiming that there was a good deal to be made in there somewhere.

[theBigLip]

I think the Pistons won. Nothing earth shattering but solid. Got some playable two way guys in Grimes and Fontecchio. Got off Bagley’s contract. And they still have $60-70M in cap space. Things are looking better.

[MasterIchiro]

The Hornets won.

I don't know that Dallas lost as badly as people are making out. It really comes down to how much value that 2027 1st would've held in a future trade, and whether it would've been enough to land a real difference maker. That always seemed pretty optimistic to me. Luka and Kyrie are on the team now. If you look at where the Clippers and Suns are weak, it's the frontcourt. The Mavs prospects of advancing are better than what they were on Monday.

I suspect the Lakers will be happy they didn't trade that 2029 1st in the long-term. Their window has closed, and if you're not honest with yourself about that, all you're going to do is make the hangover longer and worse.

I feel similarly about GS. People will say they should've put Kuminga into a deal with Klay or CP3 and gotten a difference maker, but if you push them on who that person is, there's no clear answer. Once O.G. was traded to the Knicks, that player was no longer on the market.

I have the Pistons, Nets, and Blazers as losers. Detroit for not trading Bojan and Burks last season when their value was higher (I do like them nabbing Grimes tho).

Maybe the Nets are convinced Mitchell won't extend this summer, but if he does, they really should move Bridges and DFS rather burn through more of those team-friendly deals.

The Blazers should've traded Brogdon for the best return they could get. I don't know how you watch what happened with O'Neale and Bojan and decide waiting was the better play.

The Heat lost when they traded that pick for Rozier.

I appreciate the thoughtful post as is standard from you. You've always approached exchanges and proposals in a fair-and-balanced manner. You're one of the main reasons I return to this forum despite some inherent toxicity which resulted in devalued Hornets, not just from fans of teams outside Charlotte but also from within.

On a broader scale, fans tend to lose sight of the limiting factors of overall market dynamics on a GM. Timing is everything.

The Heat and Thunder demonstrated acceleration to contender status in a short span with the play-in as the starting point of their respective rise.

I imagine the pressure to pay premiums for upgrades reached crescendo this deadline. Last deadline Rozier goes for 2nd rounder smorgasbord. Hayward goes for bad money or barely neutral value. PJ Washington goes for a late first.

The fanbase accuses the front office of "sitting on their hands" with a GM who has his "thumb stuck up his butt". It's emotional tripe I try to avoid. Defeatism is so unhealthy no matter how many losses your team accumulates. Fans want to blow up or gut a roster. They don't want to differentiate between long term assets and fungible pieces.

As it stands, moving forward Charlotte has zero bad contracts with significant cap space leverage, 2 high lottery talents (LaMelo & Brandon Miller) with 1 incoming via 2024 draft (I adore Nik Topic of Serbia who apparently and naturally plays an unselfish brand of ball influenced by Nik Jokic), Mark Williams (fingers crossed on his back), Miles Bridges, Nick Smith Jr., 2 lightly protected 1sts (Heat, Mavs), and control of all the team's own 1st round picks after surely missing the playoffs next season (1st owed the Spurs 2024-25 conveys as 2 second rounders from Kai Jones HR hack).

The offseason following this one, Hornets can bundle a trove of 1st round picks to add a third star to the 2 budding ones on the roster long term.

It didn't happen overnight and couldn't happen last deadline, mainly given market dynamics.

Some of the fanbase asserts new ownership "forced" the GM at gunpoint to make these moves. There's zero context in this take.

You always analyzed context and never succumbed to herd mentality and dog piling on players perceived as losers based on team performance.

All said, Thunder look legit even without the luxury of Gordon Hayward on a managed load playing off their bench. They're stacked with more PG talent than any team in the league, bleeding talent from their surplus here with Tre Mann (I like him as a change of scenery candidate comparable to Malik Monk). Thunder can really do no wrong. Presti's rebuild is the model Philadelphia envisioned but never achieved through The Process. Historical.

The Mavs never stagnate. Their owner and front office operate with constant maneuvering. PJ Washington has always been more talented to scouts than fans give him credit. Immense pressure to mortgage picks. Just when you think they're stuck, they manufacture some flexibility. PJ will be excited to play meaningful games. He never fears the moment. He was the only Hornet who looked like a real player through the play-in massacres. He's tough. But he's better catching and shooting. Perfect fit for their roster.

Terry fits in with Heat culture, but he's miscast as their PG. Can't blame Miami for doubling down after their run last season. 100% of the stars love the city. They will always spend big and land highly sought free agents.

[JustBuzzin]

Charlotte won

They got picks for players who weren't helping them win games. So essentially they got 2 future 1st while also keeping their young core pieces Melo/Miller/Bridges/Mark

[MasterIchiro]

Charlotte won

They got picks for players who weren't helping them win games. So essentially they got 2 future 1st while also keeping their young core pieces Melo/Miller/Bridges/Mark

And Nick Smith Jr. He's a pure scorer who profiles comparably to Malik Monk as well.

Someone inside the Hornets forum once assessed Monk's shooting form as inferior to PJ Hairston's.

I hope this deadline opens some minds to the dexterity of the GM. I consider him a good scout first and foremost despite swings and misses common to any and every GM.

He negotiated the deadline given parameters set by ownership. He was allowed to do his job on the trade front. I strongly feel and suspect MJ strapped bombs to him and married the organization to the idea that a ballstopper like Terry could eventually lift this team to a playoff run like he partly did in Boston, despite makeshift coaching and late-to-the-party G-league ownership. Absolutely no development program in support of the draft talent surrounding Rozier, and Gordon Hayward.

A picturesque sell-off I hope we can all enjoy and appreciate.

It's time to move on.

I do love these core pieces you cite here. And I've been a huge fan of NSJ since Summer League.

And don't look now, but dread pirate Miles Bridges is shooting a 3-ball 1% short of Brandon Miller, a player the fanbase widely considers potentially one of the game's most prolific snipers in good time.

Kupchak will preside over the 2024 draft.

[MasterIchiro]

On the Terry front, I want to add that Heat plunged from Lillard to Jrue to Rozier.

It's quite the drop for their roster needs.

I don't know whatever they did with their negotiations with Portland (sent both Lillard and Jrue to EC rivals), but the outcome was not good.

The bully paid for his own lunch this season.

[MasterIchiro]

Blazers even held Brogdon hostage. He's a better fit than Rozier for Heat's roster on top of it all.

[jayjaysee]

I think the Pistons won. Nothing earth shattering but solid. Got some playable two way guys in Grimes and Fontecchio. Got off Bagley’s contract. And they still have $60-70M in cap space. Things are looking better.

Yeah, I think Detroit really did great considering what they gave up and their free agency plan.

A lot of focus on selling earlier, but how much value did they really lose by not? They didn’t hold onto a star too long and cost themselves a lottery pick or real value.. they went from getting a probable late first to getting Grimes. Probably a lose, but not a franchise changing one.. not even a season changing one most likely.

Simone and Grimes take up less than 8 mil? of cap space and you’re happy with them playing 40-50 minutes combined if needed.

Sets the team up to draft BPA and split their cap space between either 2 forwards or a forward/guard depending on Topic/Williams (hopefully?)

The free agents will probably be overpaid, but thats an okay problem to deal with in a few years if the team is back to the play-in.

[MasterIchiro]

I think the Pistons won. Nothing earth shattering but solid. Got some playable two way guys in Grimes and Fontecchio. Got off Bagley’s contract. And they still have $60-70M in cap space. Things are looking better.

Yeah, I think Detroit really did great considering what they gave up and their free agency plan.

A lot of focus on selling earlier, but how much value did they really lose by not? They didn’t hold onto a star too long and cost themselves a lottery pick or real value.. they went from getting a probable late first to getting Grimes. Probably a lose, but not a franchise changing one.. not even a season changing one most likely.

Simone and Grimes take up less than 8 mil? of cap space and you’re happy with them playing 40-50 minutes combined if needed.

Sets the team up to draft BPA and split their cap space between either 2 forwards or a forward/guard depending on Topic/Williams (hopefully?)

The free agents will probably be overpaid, but thats an okay problem to deal with in a few years if the team is back to the play-in.

Please don't send Topic anywhere but Charlotte!

[jbk1234]

The Hornets won.

I don't know that Dallas lost as badly as people are making out. It really comes down to how much value that 2027 1st would've held in a future trade, and whether it would've been enough to land a real difference maker. That always seemed pretty optimistic to me. Luka and Kyrie are on the team now. If you look at where the Clippers and Suns are weak, it's the frontcourt. The Mavs prospects of advancing are better than what they were on Monday.

I suspect the Lakers will be happy they didn't trade that 2029 1st in the long-term. Their window has closed, and if you're not honest with yourself about that, all you're going to do is make the hangover longer and worse.

I feel similarly about GS. People will say they should've put Kuminga into a deal with Klay or CP3 and gotten a difference maker, but if you push them on who that person is, there's no clear answer. Once O.G. was traded to the Knicks, that player was no longer on the market.

I have the Pistons, Nets, and Blazers as losers. Detroit for not trading Bojan and Burks last season when their value was higher (I do like them nabbing Grimes tho).

Maybe the Nets are convinced Mitchell won't extend this summer, but if he does, they really should move Bridges and DFS rather burn through more of those team-friendly deals.

The Blazers should've traded Brogdon for the best return they could get. I don't know how you watch what happened with O'Neale and Bojan and decide waiting was the better play.

The Heat lost when they traded that pick for Rozier.

I appreciate the thoughtful post as is standard from you. You've always approached exchanges and proposals in a fair-and-balanced manner. You're one of the main reasons I return to this forum despite some inherent toxicity which resulted in devalued Hornets, not just from fans of teams outside Charlotte but also from within.

On a broader scale, fans tend to lose sight of the limiting factors of overall market dynamics on a GM. Timing is everything.

The Heat and Thunder demonstrated acceleration to contender status in a short span with the play-in as the starting point of their respective rise.

I imagine the pressure to pay premiums for upgrades reached crescendo this deadline. Last deadline Rozier goes for 2nd rounder smorgasbord. Hayward goes for bad money or barely neutral value. PJ Washington goes for a late first.

The fanbase accuses the front office of "sitting on their hands" with a GM who has his "thumb stuck up his butt". It's emotional tripe I try to avoid. Defeatism is so unhealthy no matter how many losses your team accumulates. Fans want to blow up or gut a roster. They don't want to differentiate between long term assets and fungible pieces.

As it stands, moving forward Charlotte has zero bad contracts with significant cap space leverage, 2 high lottery talents (LaMelo & Brandon Miller) with 1 incoming via 2024 draft (I adore Nik Topic of Serbia who apparently and naturally plays an unselfish brand of ball influenced by Nik Jokic), Mark Williams (fingers crossed on his back), Miles Bridges, Nick Smith Jr., 2 lightly protected 1sts (Heat, Mavs), and control of all the team's own 1st round picks after surely missing the playoffs next season (1st owed the Spurs 2024-25 conveys as 2 second rounders from Kai Jones HR hack).

The offseason following this one, Hornets can bundle a trove of 1st round picks to add a third star to the 2 budding ones on the roster long term.

It didn't happen overnight and couldn't happen last deadline, mainly given market dynamics.

Some of the fanbase asserts new ownership "forced" the GM at gunpoint to make these moves. There's zero context in this take.

You always analyzed context and never succumbed to herd mentality and dog piling on players perceived as losers based on team performance.

All said, Thunder look legit even without the luxury of Gordon Hayward on a managed load playing off their bench. They're stacked with more PG talent than any team in the league, bleeding talent from their surplus here with Tre Mann (I like him as a change of scenery candidate comparable to Malik Monk). Thunder can really do no wrong. Presti's rebuild is the model Philadelphia envisioned but never achieved through The Process. Historical.

The Mavs never stagnate. Their owner and front office operate with constant maneuvering. PJ Washington has always been more talented to scouts than fans give him credit. Immense pressure to mortgage picks. Just when you think they're stuck, they manufacture some flexibility. PJ will be excited to play meaningful games. He never fears the moment. He was the only Hornet who looked like a real player through the play-in massacres. He's tough. But he's better catching and shooting. Perfect fit for their roster.

Terry fits in with Heat culture, but he's miscast as their PG. Can't blame Miami for doubling down after their run last season. 100% of the stars love the city. They will always spend big and land highly sought free agents.

Thank you for the kind words.

Tbc, I think the Hornets *won* because they found the two teams who were willing to pay them above what I consider market for their players. Timing is important, but it never hurts to find that one team that's desperate and/or irrationally high on a player. Unlike the Mavs, the Heat clearly lost that trade.

For a bunch of reasons, I put that PJ/Grant Williams trade into a different category. I'm not as sure as you that Grant Williams has positive trade value on that contract. You still make that trade 10 times out of 10 if you're the Hornets, but Grant may be around for awhile.

I was relieved to see the Hornets abandon the scrambling for the play-in approach that has plagued the organization for the last couple decades. It may not be that new ownership put a gun to Kuptchak's head so much as hip checking Jordan out of the way as he's been impatient to the organization's detriment for a long time.

[MasterIchiro]

The Hornets won.

I don't know that Dallas lost as badly as people are making out. It really comes down to how much value that 2027 1st would've held in a future trade, and whether it would've been enough to land a real difference maker. That always seemed pretty optimistic to me. Luka and Kyrie are on the team now. If you look at where the Clippers and Suns are weak, it's the frontcourt. The Mavs prospects of advancing are better than what they were on Monday.

I suspect the Lakers will be happy they didn't trade that 2029 1st in the long-term. Their window has closed, and if you're not honest with yourself about that, all you're going to do is make the hangover longer and worse.

I feel similarly about GS. People will say they should've put Kuminga into a deal with Klay or CP3 and gotten a difference maker, but if you push them on who that person is, there's no clear answer. Once O.G. was traded to the Knicks, that player was no longer on the market.

I have the Pistons, Nets, and Blazers as losers. Detroit for not trading Bojan and Burks last season when their value was higher (I do like them nabbing Grimes tho).

Maybe the Nets are convinced Mitchell won't extend this summer, but if he does, they really should move Bridges and DFS rather burn through more of those team-friendly deals.

The Blazers should've traded Brogdon for the best return they could get. I don't know how you watch what happened with O'Neale and Bojan and decide waiting was the better play.

The Heat lost when they traded that pick for Rozier.

I appreciate the thoughtful post as is standard from you. You've always approached exchanges and proposals in a fair-and-balanced manner. You're one of the main reasons I return to this forum despite some inherent toxicity which resulted in devalued Hornets, not just from fans of teams outside Charlotte but also from within.

On a broader scale, fans tend to lose sight of the limiting factors of overall market dynamics on a GM. Timing is everything.

The Heat and Thunder demonstrated acceleration to contender status in a short span with the play-in as the starting point of their respective rise.

I imagine the pressure to pay premiums for upgrades reached crescendo this deadline. Last deadline Rozier goes for 2nd rounder smorgasbord. Hayward goes for bad money or barely neutral value. PJ Washington goes for a late first.

The fanbase accuses the front office of "sitting on their hands" with a GM who has his "thumb stuck up his butt". It's emotional tripe I try to avoid. Defeatism is so unhealthy no matter how many losses your team accumulates. Fans want to blow up or gut a roster. They don't want to differentiate between long term assets and fungible pieces.

As it stands, moving forward Charlotte has zero bad contracts with significant cap space leverage, 2 high lottery talents (LaMelo & Brandon Miller) with 1 incoming via 2024 draft (I adore Nik Topic of Serbia who apparently and naturally plays an unselfish brand of ball influenced by Nik Jokic), Mark Williams (fingers crossed on his back), Miles Bridges, Nick Smith Jr., 2 lightly protected 1sts (Heat, Mavs), and control of all the team's own 1st round picks after surely missing the playoffs next season (1st owed the Spurs 2024-25 conveys as 2 second rounders from Kai Jones HR hack).

The offseason following this one, Hornets can bundle a trove of 1st round picks to add a third star to the 2 budding ones on the roster long term.

It didn't happen overnight and couldn't happen last deadline, mainly given market dynamics.

Some of the fanbase asserts new ownership "forced" the GM at gunpoint to make these moves. There's zero context in this take.

You always analyzed context and never succumbed to herd mentality and dog piling on players perceived as losers based on team performance.

All said, Thunder look legit even without the luxury of Gordon Hayward on a managed load playing off their bench. They're stacked with more PG talent than any team in the league, bleeding talent from their surplus here with Tre Mann (I like him as a change of scenery candidate comparable to Malik Monk). Thunder can really do no wrong. Presti's rebuild is the model Philadelphia envisioned but never achieved through The Process. Historical.

The Mavs never stagnate. Their owner and front office operate with constant maneuvering. PJ Washington has always been more talented to scouts than fans give him credit. Immense pressure to mortgage picks. Just when you think they're stuck, they manufacture some flexibility. PJ will be excited to play meaningful games. He never fears the moment. He was the only Hornet who looked like a real player through the play-in massacres. He's tough. But he's better catching and shooting. Perfect fit for their roster.

Terry fits in with Heat culture, but he's miscast as their PG. Can't blame Miami for doubling down after their run last season. 100% of the stars love the city. They will always spend big and land highly sought free agents.

Thank you for the kind words.

Tbc, I think the Hornets *won* because they found the two teams who were willing to pay them above what I consider market for their players. Timing is important, but it never hurts to find that one team that's desperate and/or irrationally high on a player. Unlike the Mavs, the Heat clearly lost that trade.

For a bunch of reasons, I put that PJ/Grant Williams trade into a different category. I'm not as sure as you that Grant Williams has positive trade value on that contract. You still make that trade 10 times out of 10 if you're the Hornets, but Grant may be around for awhile.

I was relieved to see the Hornets abandon the scrambling for the play-in approach that has plagued the organization for the last couple decades. It may not be that new ownership put a gun to Kuptchak's head so much as hip checking Jordan out of the way as he's been impatient to the organization's detriment for a long time.

All around fair and honest appraisal.

[nykballa2k4]

I think the Pistons won. Nothing earth shattering but solid. Got some playable two way guys in Grimes and Fontecchio. Got off Bagley’s contract. And they still have $60-70M in cap space. Things are looking better.

Not the biggest fan of the Fontecchio deal, but obviously I think Grimes was a great move. Overall a good reset for a team that needed one.