Construct a trade where the Nets get Mitchell+another star while keeping Bridges+Claxton

[vincecarter4pres]

I don’t think either team does those trades - Cavs maybe, Wolves 100% no.

Cavs will demand Bridges, if Nets say no, Cavs have standing offers from Lakers, Heat, Knicks, and maybe a few other short list options - that have better win now talent than Johnson and Cam. Nets would have to hope Mitchell pulls a AD and demands only Brooklyn - then trade accordingly.

Still think some of you guys are way overselling other teams offers for Mitchell and underselling Brooklyn.

Are the Heat about to trade Bam or Butler for Mitchell?

Lakers about to trade AD or LeBron?

Knicks gonna send Brunson? Are they getting OG to agree to a S&T? Are we really putting OG at that high a level to offer mediocre picks attached to him? Let alone him costing $40+ mill a year on average for 43-69 games a year, pretty much literally each and every season of his career?

What win now pieces are other teams offering that are so good for Cleveland better than the Cam’s, Sharpe, factoring in the premium picks as well, and a young prospect like Whitehead? Herro? An E&T Russell that doesn’t fit at all?

Whose the mystery team? Bucks sending crippled AARP Middleton? With no picks? No prospects?

Atlanta gonna take a shot and offer Murray, but with nothing else of value? Sure, Nets will keep cap open and wait for ‘25 FA, while making a cap conscious star trade elsewhere.

I just don’t think I’m biased when we analyze the offers from other realistic suitors and say, the Nets easily have the superior offer, whether directly, or involving multiple teams.

Also you’ve come up with similar trades for Mitchell to BK, I’m confused.

Wolves can get waaaay better win now players than that puh puh platter for Towns.

Not so sure.

Again these two offers are under the premise most if not all the PHO/DAL/PHI picks and a BK pick or two are distributed in some fashion between the two trades.

You’re ignoring the immense cap savings, a starting caliber, much younger point guard. Wilson has the looks of a promising rotation player, good chance he can be an average starting level forward within a couple seasons. And again, the draft picks.

KAT is a polarizing player. Think a lot of GM’s would take Markkanen over him straight up if the asset costs were identical, and cap difference slightly in Lauri’s favor, especially if you’re looking for a 2a/b option.

Honestly, on paper asset/draft capital value, this is right about there imo.

Again, the cap savings are enormous. If he gets moved, I think the lack of suitors willing to come off big value for him are going to be slim, if they’re also offering real cap savings.

You are dealing with two teams in Cavs and Wolves that value win-now talent, not picks. Let’s break down Mitchell offer because your Towns offer is laughable (from a win-now player perspective).

Nets are offering:
Johnson
Cam Thomas
Plus picks

Heat offer:
Herro
Jaquez
Plus picks

Lakers offer:
Reaves
Rui
Plus picks

Both those offers start with better win-now players. Can Nets offer more in draft capital to make up value? Yes. Cavs will need to evaluate how much more Nets offer is to make up win-now player delta.

Well the win now evaluation is very subjective, both on the internet, in barber shops and in NBA front offices.

I do not see much of any gulf in those offers, before we get into picks. As in the difference in players.

Listen to what a majority of Heat fans on their own board and their beats in articles have to say about Herro.

Jaime is nice for a rookie, but what’s his ceiling and what’s he look like away from Spo?

My bet is Cam J looks a lot better in Rui’s role on LAL, then he does in current Brooklyn.

My bet is, Cam T in his proper first off the bench gunner role, looks like a 6MOTY candidate, he isn’t even a finished product, and young players in his vain usually take 4-6 years in the league and a team or 3 to settle into good habits and play within themselves and become efficient and impactful.

Reaves is definitely good, but how does he look outside of the gravity of LeBron and AD, and Russell’s shooting?

My point is, none of these guys are actual needle movers. They are all good starting caliber/6xth man big minute players on actual good teams with good coaching. They’re near equals. Pretty much not a one of them is suddenly going to morph into an All Star level, floor or ceiling raiser.

And you can’t discount the picks. If you want to try and sell that the other picks could be equal, do you. But the Lakers pretty much never suck for more then one draft in a row, and Riley will almost 100% demand protections on his outgoing.

The weird part is, you have come up with many similar, but more complex multi-team trades, but you’re ignoring that mine have the disclaimer, can be expanded for win now players to Cleveland/Minny.

Our offers are almost identical Brooklyn outgoing players and assets and then you say mine are DOA.

Lastly, outside of not wanting to ship Utah lottery picks, are we sure Cleveland is this obsessed with win now players in return? They shot their shot and maybe it didn’t work, but everyone important on their roster is under team control for years and is under 26.

Minny wants to clean up their cap and remain competitive. All those picks from Phoenix and Dallas provide a lot of that flexibility.

Just my opinion.

[Wolveswin]

Still think some of you guys are way overselling other teams offers for Mitchell and underselling Brooklyn.

Are the Heat about to trade Bam or Butler for Mitchell?

Lakers about to trade AD or LeBron?

Knicks gonna send Brunson? Are they getting OG to agree to a S&T? Are we really putting OG at that high a level to offer mediocre picks attached to him? Let alone him costing $40+ mill a year on average for 43-69 games a year, pretty much literally each and every season of his career?

What win now pieces are other teams offering that are so good for Cleveland better than the Cam’s, Sharpe, factoring in the premium picks as well, and a young prospect like Whitehead? Herro? An E&T Russell that doesn’t fit at all?

Whose the mystery team? Bucks sending crippled AARP Middleton? With no picks? No prospects?

Atlanta gonna take a shot and offer Murray, but with nothing else of value? Sure, Nets will keep cap open and wait for ‘25 FA, while making a cap conscious star trade elsewhere.

I just don’t think I’m biased when we analyze the offers from other realistic suitors and say, the Nets easily have the superior offer, whether directly, or involving multiple teams.

Also you’ve come up with similar trades for Mitchell to BK, I’m confused.


Not so sure.

Again these two offers are under the premise most if not all the PHO/DAL/PHI picks and a BK pick or two are distributed in some fashion between the two trades.

You’re ignoring the immense cap savings, a starting caliber, much younger point guard. Wilson has the looks of a promising rotation player, good chance he can be an average starting level forward within a couple seasons. And again, the draft picks.

KAT is a polarizing player. Think a lot of GM’s would take Markkanen over him straight up if the asset costs were identical, and cap difference slightly in Lauri’s favor, especially if you’re looking for a 2a/b option.

Honestly, on paper asset/draft capital value, this is right about there imo.

Again, the cap savings are enormous. If he gets moved, I think the lack of suitors willing to come off big value for him are going to be slim, if they’re also offering real cap savings.

You are dealing with two teams in Cavs and Wolves that value win-now talent, not picks. Let’s break down Mitchell offer because your Towns offer is laughable (from a win-now player perspective).

Nets are offering:
Johnson
Cam Thomas
Plus picks

Heat offer:
Herro
Jaquez
Plus picks

Lakers offer:
Reaves
Rui
Plus picks

Both those offers start with better win-now players. Can Nets offer more in draft capital to make up value? Yes. Cavs will need to evaluate how much more Nets offer is to make up win-now player delta.

Well the win now evaluation is very subjective, both on the internet, in barber shops and in NBA front offices.

I do not see much of any gulf in those offers, before we get into picks. As in the difference in players.

Listen to what a majority of Heat fans on their own board and their beats in articles have to say about Herro.

Jaime is nice for a rookie, but what’s his ceiling and what’s he look like away from Spo?

My bet is Cam J looks a lot better in Rui’s role on LAL, then he does in current Brooklyn.

My bet is, Cam T in his proper first off the bench gunner role, looks like a 6MOTY candidate, he isn’t even a finished product, and young players in his vain usually take 4-6 years in the league and a team or 3 to settle into good habits and play within themselves and become efficient and impactful.

Reaves is definitely good, but how does he look outside of the gravity of LeBron and AD, and Russell’s shooting?

My point is, none of these guys are actual needle movers. They are all good starting caliber/6xth man big minute players on actual good teams with good coaching. They’re near equals. Pretty much not a one of them is suddenly going to morph into an All Star level, floor or ceiling raiser.

And you can’t discount the picks. If you want to try and sell that the other picks could be equal, do you. But the Lakers pretty much never suck for more then one draft in a row, and Riley will almost 100% demand protections on his outgoing.

The weird part is, you have come up with many similar, but more complex multi-team trades, but you’re ignoring that mine have the disclaimer, can be expanded for win now players to Cleveland/Minny.

Our offers are almost identical Brooklyn outgoing players and assets and then you say mine are DOA.

Lastly, outside of not wanting to ship Utah lottery picks, are we sure Cleveland is this obsessed with win now players in return? They shot their shot and maybe it didn’t work, but everyone important on their roster is under team control for years and is under 26.

Minny wants to clean up their cap and remain competitive. All those picks from Phoenix and Dallas provide a lot of that flexibility.

Just my opinion.

Details matter. Just saying “team x can go get win-now player” or “picks” doesn’t help evaluation of your suggested trades.

We all know Cavs ask for Bridges and Nets offer Cam/Johnson plus picks. Without Bridges, Cavs evaluate all other offers (some I posted above - but others will exist). Only evaluation that matters is theirs (Cavs). But for a message board, ‘my guys’ (in your case Nets) can’t always be the best and more valuable. If Nets aren’t offering Bridges, it goes to the tape.

[DowJones]

Johnson, Clowney, 2027 and 2029 PHX first is really the lowest package I think I would accept for Mitchell as a Cavs fan. I really do believe LA and even Miami could beat a lesser offer.

And I’m thinking that will likely be the offer but with Whitehead or Wilson in place of Clowney; and the Philly pick and possibly one of the Houston swap year firsts added; and Cam Thomas, maybe rerouted for a pick in the 10-20 range in the ‘24 draft.

I don’t think the Cavs can get Bridges, but I would imagine they could get Clowney. If not, I would be very good with sending Donovan out west for that hypothetical Laker package.

[vincecarter4pres]

Details matter. Just saying “team x can go get win-now player” or “picks” doesn’t help evaluation of your suggested trades.

We all know Cavs ask for Bridges and Nets offer Cam/Johnson plus picks. Without Bridges, Cavs evaluate all other offers (some I posted above - but others will exist). Only evaluation that matters is theirs (Cavs). But for a message board, ‘my guys’ (in your case Nets) can’t always be the best and more valuable. If Nets aren’t offering Bridges, it goes to the tape.

Sure details matter, but chances are, whether it’s BK or LAL, good chance they have to settle for some average young starter level guys, picks and a prospect of some level.

And I never said the Nets guys are better or more valuable, I’m saying of the Nets, the Heat, and the Lakers, all those guys are basically equal starter level JAG’s. So which picks are the more valuable?

[vincecarter4pres]

Johnson, Clowney, 2027 and 2029 PHX first is really the lowest package I think I would accept for Mitchell as a Cavs fan. I really do believe LA and even Miami could beat a lesser offer.

And I’m thinking that will likely be the offer but with Whitehead or Wilson in place of Clowney; and the Philly pick and possibly one of the Houston swap year firsts added; and Cam Thomas, maybe rerouted for a pick in the 10-20 range in the ‘24 draft.

I don’t think the Cavs can get Bridges, but I would imagine they could get Clowney. If not, I would be very good with sending Donovan out west for that hypothetical Laker package.

I think the Nets will desperately try and hold onto to Clowney, but they certainly may cave.

But why would you take the Lakers package over the Nets if it didn’t? You genuinely believe it then better, or is it literally out of emotion and spite? Not that Dan Gilbert wouldn’t do just that, but I find it a little nuts if that’s the case.

I’m not being sarcastic, nor am I shocked if you do think the Lakers package is better, but I do find it a lot easier to see far out Suns picks being high lottery, and repeatedly, then the Lakers picks being so.

Or is it just Rui/Reaves? They could certainly continue to improve a great deal as well, though it seems more likely they’re just good young players benefiting from playing with two top 10 level stars and an ace shooter.

[DowJones]

And I’m thinking that will likely be the offer but with Whitehead or Wilson in place of Clowney; and the Philly pick and possibly one of the Houston swap year firsts added; and Cam Thomas, maybe rerouted for a pick in the 10-20 range in the ‘24 draft.

I don’t think the Cavs can get Bridges, but I would imagine they could get Clowney. If not, I would be very good with sending Donovan out west for that hypothetical Laker package.

I think the Nets will desperately try and hold onto to Clowney, but they certainly may cave.

But why would you take the Lakers package over the Nets if it didn’t? You genuinely believe it then better, or is it literally out of emotion and spite? Not that Dan Gilbert wouldn’t do just that, but I find it a little nuts if that’s the case.

I’m not being sarcastic, nor am I shocked if you do think the Lakers package is better, but I do find it a lot easier to see far out Suns picks being high lottery, and repeatedly, then the Lakers picks being so.

Or is it just Rui/Reaves? They could certainly continue to improve a great deal as well, though it seems more likely they’re just good young players benefiting from playing with two top 10 level stars and an ace shooter.

I am high on Rui and I like Reaves. I think those are 2 legitimately good players entering the prime of their career. I like the PHX picks more than the LA picks but IMO Reaves/Rui slightly tilts it in LA’s direction. I am not super high on Clowney but I think it would be bad business for the Cavs to not demand him in a trade. He is young with upside.

[Wolveswin]

To Jazz: 25/27/29 Suns 1sts + 29 Mavs 1st + Whitehead or Clowney + Simmons

To Cavs: Bridges + Cam Thomas + 29 Cavs 1st (returned via Jazz)

To Nets: Mitchell + Markkanen + Sexton

That is bones of trades. For Nets, basically same assets as keeping Bridges while acquiring just Mitchell. But instead deal is acquiring Mitchell while backfilling with Markkanen (and keeping Johnson).

Question becomes what more do Cavs need? If anything. What more donJazz need? If anything.

[vincecarter4pres]

To Jazz: 25/27/29 Suns 1sts + 29 Mavs 1st + Whitehead or Clowney + Simmons

To Cavs: Bridges + Cam Thomas + 29 Cavs 1st (returned via Jazz)

To Nets: Mitchell + Markkanen + Sexton

That is bones of trades. For Nets, basically same assets as keeping Bridges while acquiring just Mitchell. But instead deal is acquiring Mitchell while backfilling with Markkanen (and keeping Johnson).

Question becomes what more do Cavs need? If anything. What more donJazz need? If anything.

Can I ask a serious question?

Why are the Nets sending out significantly more value for Mitchell then the Cavs did originally to acquire him?

Especially given the circumstances behind the Cavs even entertaining trading him right now?

Also why would the Jazz need more? Or get anything in this stratosphere of value for Lauri and Sexton?

This is top 10 superstar return.

[Wolveswin]

To Jazz: 25/27/29 Suns 1sts + 29 Mavs 1st + Whitehead or Clowney + Simmons

To Cavs: Bridges + Cam Thomas + 29 Cavs 1st (returned via Jazz)

To Nets: Mitchell + Markkanen + Sexton

That is bones of trades. For Nets, basically same assets as keeping Bridges while acquiring just Mitchell. But instead deal is acquiring Mitchell while backfilling with Markkanen (and keeping Johnson).

Question becomes what more do Cavs need? If anything. What more donJazz need? If anything.

Can I ask a serious question?

Why are the Nets sending out significantly more value for Mitchell then the Cavs did originally to acquire him?

Especially given the circumstances behind the Cavs even entertaining trading him right now?

Also why would the Jazz need more? Or get anything in this stratosphere of value for Lauri and Sexton?

This is top 10 superstar return.

Serious question…you don’t think Markkanen (and Sexton) is worth 3x 1sts plus 1x meh youth and eating Simmons contract?

Cavs get Bridges + Cam + 1x of their 1sts back…how is that more than what they sent out to acquire him?

[vincecarter4pres]

To Jazz: 25/27/29 Suns 1sts + 29 Mavs 1st + Whitehead or Clowney + Simmons

To Cavs: Bridges + Cam Thomas + 29 Cavs 1st (returned via Jazz)

To Nets: Mitchell + Markkanen + Sexton

That is bones of trades. For Nets, basically same assets as keeping Bridges while acquiring just Mitchell. But instead deal is acquiring Mitchell while backfilling with Markkanen (and keeping Johnson).

Question becomes what more do Cavs need? If anything. What more donJazz need? If anything.

Can I ask a serious question?

Why are the Nets sending out significantly more value for Mitchell then the Cavs did originally to acquire him?

Especially given the circumstances behind the Cavs even entertaining trading him right now?

Also why would the Jazz need more? Or get anything in this stratosphere of value for Lauri and Sexton?

This is top 10 superstar return.

Serious question…you don’t think Markkanen (and Sexton) is worth 3x 1sts plus 1x meh youth and eating Simmons contract?

Cavs get Bridges + Cam + 1x of their 1sts back…how is that more than what they sent out to acquire him?

Per your evaluation, all the picks and prospects is what it would cost to obtain Mitchell.

To me that is a wild overpay.

Bridges for Markkanen is a fair straight swap.

The Nets wouldn’t need Sexton. Good young player, but what’s his on paper worth? Regardless, it makes things more complicated then what they should be imho, just to get the Jazz a legitimate superstar return on two good young players.

The Nets would be looking to grab Mitchell, retain Bridges, and add a player like Markkanen.

In the outside chance Bridges is dealt in any form, they’re going to look for a pairing of Mitchell or an equivalent, and a young unanimous top 10 player.

Maybe not even Mitchell.

Something like Ja and Ingram, or Fox and AD.

Whether that seems realistic or not, why go all in like this while losing Bridges if it’s not an above level pairing?

Even if it did somehow take all that to get Mitchell, why wouldn’t they hold on Bridges, still have neutral and slightly positive value salary filler(Schröder/Cam J/DFS/Sharpe/re-signed Clax) their own future picks, ‘28 Suns swap, and the Sixers pick, with near max cap in the summer of ‘25, and opportunistically grab the next forward on the market who will cost significantly less?

Sexton isn’t even a good fit with Mitchell, you need a taller, bigger secondary ball handler, Mitchell would be better suited at point, not with a 6’2 combo guard or Schröder starting next to him.

[Wolveswin]

Can I ask a serious question?

Why are the Nets sending out significantly more value for Mitchell then the Cavs did originally to acquire him?

Especially given the circumstances behind the Cavs even entertaining trading him right now?

Also why would the Jazz need more? Or get anything in this stratosphere of value for Lauri and Sexton?

This is top 10 superstar return.

Serious question…you don’t think Markkanen (and Sexton) is worth 3x 1sts plus 1x meh youth and eating Simmons contract?

Cavs get Bridges + Cam + 1x of their 1sts back…how is that more than what they sent out to acquire him?

Per your evaluation, all the picks and prospects is what it would cost to obtain Mitchell.

To me that is a wild overpay.

Bridges for Markkanen is a fair straight swap.

The Nets wouldn’t need Sexton. Good young player, but what’s his on paper worth? Regardless, it makes things more complicated then what they should be imho, just to get the Jazz a legitimate superstar return on two good young players.

The Nets would be looking to grab Mitchell, retain Bridges, and add a player like Markkanen.

In the outside chance Bridges is dealt in any form, they’re going to look for a pairing of Mitchell or an equivalent, and a young unanimous top 10 player.

Maybe not even Mitchell.

Something like Ja and Ingram, or Fox and AD.

Whether that seems realistic or not, why go all in like this while losing Bridges if it’s not an above level pairing?

Even if it did somehow take all that to get Mitchell, why wouldn’t they hold on Bridges, still have neutral and slightly positive value salary filler(Schröder/Cam J/DFS/Sharpe/re-signed Clax) their own future picks, ‘28 Suns swap, and the Sixers pick, with near max cap in the summer of ‘25, and opportunistically grab the next forward on the market who will cost significantly less?

Sexton isn’t even a good fit with Mitchell, you need a taller, bigger secondary ball handler, Mitchell would be better suited at point, not with a 6’2 combo guard or Schröder starting next to him.

Maybe this will help you:

1) Nets offer without Bridges:
Johnson/Cam/Whitehead or Clowney/3x 1sts (at least - debate which 1sts)

2) Nets offer with Bridges:
Bridges/Cam/1x 1st (at least - debate which 1st)

If Nets value their youth more than Cavs, not a deal breaker to remove, Cavs would see them as meh. But more premium draft capital required.

So in above deal, Nets offer #2 PLUS get Markkanen and Sexton too for: 3x 1sts + youth.

[vincecarter4pres]

Serious question…you don’t think Markkanen (and Sexton) is worth 3x 1sts plus 1x meh youth and eating Simmons contract?

Cavs get Bridges + Cam + 1x of their 1sts back…how is that more than what they sent out to acquire him?

Per your evaluation, all the picks and prospects is what it would cost to obtain Mitchell.

To me that is a wild overpay.

Bridges for Markkanen is a fair straight swap.

The Nets wouldn’t need Sexton. Good young player, but what’s his on paper worth? Regardless, it makes things more complicated then what they should be imho, just to get the Jazz a legitimate superstar return on two good young players.

The Nets would be looking to grab Mitchell, retain Bridges, and add a player like Markkanen.

In the outside chance Bridges is dealt in any form, they’re going to look for a pairing of Mitchell or an equivalent, and a young unanimous top 10 player.

Maybe not even Mitchell.

Something like Ja and Ingram, or Fox and AD.

Whether that seems realistic or not, why go all in like this while losing Bridges if it’s not an above level pairing?

Even if it did somehow take all that to get Mitchell, why wouldn’t they hold on Bridges, still have neutral and slightly positive value salary filler(Schröder/Cam J/DFS/Sharpe/re-signed Clax) their own future picks, ‘28 Suns swap, and the Sixers pick, with near max cap in the summer of ‘25, and opportunistically grab the next forward on the market who will cost significantly less?

Sexton isn’t even a good fit with Mitchell, you need a taller, bigger secondary ball handler, Mitchell would be better suited at point, not with a 6’2 combo guard or Schröder starting next to him.

Maybe this will help you:

1) Nets offer without Bridges:
Johnson/Cam/Whitehead or Clowney/3x 1sts (at least - debate which 1sts)

2) Nets offer with Bridges:
Bridges/Cam/1x 1st (at least - debate which 1st)

If Nets value their youth more than Cavs, not a deal breaker to remove, Cavs would see them as meh. But more premium draft capital required.

So in above deal, Nets offer #2 PLUS get Markkanen and Sexton too for: 3x 1sts + youth.

Just don’t personally think this is the smart route for the Nets to go, and believe they will not deal Bridges, unless they can windup with something crazy.


I’ve agreed itt even on point 1.

Cam T
Cam J
Whitehead or Wilson
Sharpe
4 1sts - Probably ‘25 Nets/Houston, ‘27 Phoenix, ‘27 Sixers, one of ‘29 Phoenix/Dallas

Is around what I’m expecting if Mitchell is ultimately sent to Brooklyn.

After that I think they’ll look for a second/third piece with the remaining picks and Simmons expiring, or DFS/Schröder.

Whether that’s Markkanen, or if Ainge even views that as sufficient, we shall see.

It could very well come down to Ainge wanting Lauri off the roster before the start of the season so they can full on tank for the ‘25 draft, but ensuring he gets some high value future picks. Brooklyn would still have some of those available.

Brooklyn might also have their sights set on a guy like Ingram at the deadline or draft night ‘25, or someone off the radar at this moment.

[JKiddy]

BK won't do that.

I think they already know that Mitchell has asked out. They will be holding private negotiations this summer.

It will probably be Cam Johnson, Whitehead, and maybe D Sharpe plus 3 firsts or 2 firsts and a swap.

Mitchell helps the Nets. But, the Nets need to make another deal or signing by the summer of 2025 to truly be competitive.