OKC-DET

[Kizz Fastfists]

OKC gets: Ausar Thompson, #5
DET gets: Cason Wallace, #12

Detroit adds desperately needed shooting and a guy with Jrue upside in my view. OKC adds an elite defender and rebounder who basically answers the question "what if Josh Giddey couldn't shoot at all but was much better otherwise" and badly needs to play next to Chet.

OKC wouldn't consider this. Detroit probably isn't willing to give up on Ausar at this point because they wouldn't have drafted him without thinking he can either develop some shooting or that they can find players to surround him with to provide it. Detroit has no reason to improve as their picks go out if they get better. They could take Sheppard or Dillingham to put next to Cade and improve their shooting/spacing.

They could trade Cade to the Spurs or Magic and start over. The Spurs could send them a solid pick package. Orlando could send WCJ, who could make a nice center that can stretch the floor to help with their spacing, along with some picks. The real question is how does Detroit view Ausar? Is he a role player who they can develop over the next 2-3 years or is he basically a finished product as a defensive specialist with no shooting ability. His FT% suggests he'll struggle to develop shooting, but does he do enough other things well enough to become your Giannis type? If so you just add a bunch of shooting and 3/D types around him. Cason would be the type of player you bring in to play with him not trade him for and OKC has no interest in adding anyone that can not shoot the 3 well.

If Detroit goes with a new GM they could easily justify trading Cade and hitting reset claiming that Cade doesn't elevate the team enough. The new GM might not like Ausar's unique skill set and trade him to the highest bidder whatever that offer happens to be. There would be no offer from OKC. This is just a terrible match of teams for these players. Adding Cason only makes sense if the plan is to play him next to Cade or if Cade is being moved in another trade. This is just a bad idea. I really don't like Ausar, but I understand how he can work with the right players around him. I just wouldn't want to build that team. He would be interesting in Utah next to Sexton, Lauri and Collins with another solid shooter, perhaps Knecht if Detroit is really ready to give up on Ausar already then maybe Utah could toss them a pick package for him.

[Mr Peanut]

Cason is really good, this is a bizarre argument.

You know he was 20 years old and playing crunch time minutes in the postseason.

He's easily better than everyone on the Pistons roster other than maybe Cade right now.

You’ve got Thunder fans saying the value is bad for Detroit. You’ve got fans of neither team saying it’s a non-starter for Detroit.

You are the only one defending this trade.

It’s possible you’ve got secret wisdom nobody else has. But I think you need to consider the possibility that this isn’t the case.

Wallace: Made the all rookie team
Ausar: Did not

Wallace: Played serious playoff minutes
Ausar: Played a limited role on a 14-68 team.

Wallace: Can fit on most teams because he can defend and shoot
Ausar: Cannot fit on any team without four perimeter threats

I don't know how controversial this is by any objective measure.

Ausar was 12th in All-Rookie voting (Cason 9th). The reason why he dropped out of contention is he missed the last 15-20 games with a blood clot. Unfortunately recency bias factors into voting more than it should. For those of us who have a slightly longer memory, we remember when Ausar was consistently in the top 2-3 of the ROY ladder for the first third of the season before Monty put him on the bench to make a change for change's sake because of the losing streak.

And Cason shouldn't be rewarded and considered a better player for being drafted to a good team, in the same way Ausar shouldn't be considered worse because he ended up on our misshapen roster with a terrible coach. If we actually look at their on/off +/-, we have Ausar at +5.5 (his team clearly better when he's on the floor) and Cason at -3.9 (his team worse when he's on the floor).

I'm sure you can appreciate that the overwhelming response to your thread is that there is a massive value imbalance to the proposed trade. You can continue to argue with flawed logic if you want, but perhaps the more gracious path is to admit your proposal was off base and move on.

[7r5ur]

The reasoning here is apparently because Detroit’s front office is so bad they’ll just donate OKC the superior player and the higher pick?

[HadAnEffectHere]

The reasoning here is apparently because Detroit’s front office is so bad they’ll just donate OKC the superior player and the higher pick?

Ausar is not a good or valuable player on all but five teams in the NBA.

[theBigLip]

The reasoning here is apparently because Detroit’s front office is so bad they’ll just donate OKC the superior player and the higher pick?

Ausar is not a good or valuable player on all but five teams in the NBA.

It must feel great to be such an expert to know the absolute value of 20 year old rookies. I hope I can find this post next year and see how it ages.

[zeebneeb]

The reasoning here is apparently because Detroit’s front office is so bad they’ll just donate OKC the superior player and the higher pick?

Ausar is not a good or valuable player on all but five teams in the NBA.

It must feel great to be such an expert to know the absolute value of 20 year old rookies. I hope I can find this post next year and see how it ages.

It has got to do with age. Older fans understand patience, and intangibles from players like Ausar.

Declarative statements about a 20 year old, are foolhardy.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Ausar is not a good or valuable player on all but five teams in the NBA.

It must feel great to be such an expert to know the absolute value of 20 year old rookies. I hope I can find this post next year and see how it ages.

It has got to do with age. Older fans understand patience, and intangibles from players like Ausar.

Declarative statements about a 20 year old, are foolhardy.

He has to shoot well to play next to a traditional center.

He shot 18% from three and 59% from the line after having worked with Mike Miller for the last three years to save his shot.

How are the Pistons getting a real stretch 5 in the next 3 years.

[theBigLip]

It must feel great to be such an expert to know the absolute value of 20 year old rookies. I hope I can find this post next year and see how it ages.

It has got to do with age. Older fans understand patience, and intangibles from players like Ausar.

Declarative statements about a 20 year old, are foolhardy.

He has to shoot well to play next to a traditional center.

He shot 18% from three and 59% from the line after having worked with Mike Miller for the last three years to save his shot.

How are the Pistons getting a real stretch 5 in the next 3 years.

29% in March. Seems like a positive trend.

[Snakebites]

...so this one is still going, huh?

[MoneyTalks41890]

...so this one is still going, huh?

1 v 20

[Kizz Fastfists]

29% in March. Seems like a positive trend.

OKC watched Giddey trending positive with 41% from 3 in March and then 18% from 3 against Dallas. Last season Giddey shot 38% from 3 in March giving false hope to him turning the corner to becoming more of the play OKC needed him to be. Your micro sample means nothing.

Just to make sure we are getting the stat accurate. Ausar shot 29% in February on 17 attempts and 25% from 3 in March on 20 attempts. So he was technically trending down. He ended the season 3-17 from 3, 17%, over his last 4 games. Hope is a strong drug for us fanatics. I've been puffing that Giddey's going to develop a 3pt shot hope pipe for over two years.

[MotownMadness]

29% in March. Seems like a positive trend.

OKC watched Giddey trending positive with 41% from 3 in March and then 18% from 3 against Dallas. Last season Giddey shot 38% from 3 in March giving false hope to him turning the corner to becoming more of the play OKC needed him to be. Your micro sample means nothing.

Just to make sure we are getting the stat accurate. Ausar shot 29% in February on 17 attempts and 25% from 3 in March on 20 attempts. So he was technically trending down. He ended the season 3-17 from 3, 17%, over his last 4 games. Hope is a strong drug for us fanatics. I've been puffing that Giddey's going to develop a 3pt shot hope pipe for over two years.

Ausar is a much better defender with way more athleticism though

He doesn't need to shoot 40% but he has to still get alot better

[theBigLip]

29% in March. Seems like a positive trend.

OKC watched Giddey trending positive with 41% from 3 in March and then 18% from 3 against Dallas. Last season Giddey shot 38% from 3 in March giving false hope to him turning the corner to becoming more of the play OKC needed him to be. Your micro sample means nothing.

Just to make sure we are getting the stat accurate. Ausar shot 29% in February on 17 attempts and 25% from 3 in March on 20 attempts. So he was technically trending down. He ended the season 3-17 from 3, 17%, over his last 4 games. Hope is a strong drug for us fanatics. I've been puffing that Giddey's going to develop a 3pt shot hope pipe for over two years.

I did get Feb/Mar mixed up, but regardless, it’s better than his overall season, therefore trending up. So if you want to pick four games to be your sample size, maybe you should go take a statistics class.

He also just turned all of 21. I guess his career is over since there is no way he can improve. Thanks for the enlightenment

[theBigLip]

29% in March. Seems like a positive trend.

OKC watched Giddey trending positive with 41% from 3 in March and then 18% from 3 against Dallas. Last season Giddey shot 38% from 3 in March giving false hope to him turning the corner to becoming more of the play OKC needed him to be. Your micro sample means nothing.

Just to make sure we are getting the stat accurate. Ausar shot 29% in February on 17 attempts and 25% from 3 in March on 20 attempts. So he was technically trending down. He ended the season 3-17 from 3, 17%, over his last 4 games. Hope is a strong drug for us fanatics. I've been puffing that Giddey's going to develop a 3pt shot hope pipe for over two years.

I did get Feb/Mar mixed up, but regardless, it’s better than his overall season, therefore trending up. So if you want to pick four games to be your sample size, maybe you should go take a statistics class.

He also just turned all of 21. I guess his career is over since there is no way he can improve. Thanks for the enlightenment

[Kizz Fastfists]

I did get Feb/Mar mixed up, but regardless, it’s better than his overall season, therefore trending up. So if you want to pick four games to be your sample size, maybe you should go take a statistics class.

He also just turned all of 21. I guess his career is over since there is no way he can improve. Thanks for the enlightenment

My sample size of 4 games was 17 shots. Your sample size of February was 20 shots. Please tell me what statistics course you took that lied and told you that 20 shots of three point shooting was statistically relevant and 17 shots wasn't so I can demand your money back for you as both samples are completely irrelevant. What isn't irrelevant is that Ausar can't shoot. He could end up having a 12 year career similar to Eduardo Najera, but it won't be as anything more than a defensive role player. When you are holding out hope that he can improve to the point of being as terrible at shooting as Andre Roberson was it is time to give up on thinking that player is going to be significant part of winning.

I hope Detroit gets a competent GM this off-season and they make some moves that actually put Detroit heading in the right direction instead of continuing to wreck that organization.

[theBigLip]

I did get Feb/Mar mixed up, but regardless, it’s better than his overall season, therefore trending up. So if you want to pick four games to be your sample size, maybe you should go take a statistics class.

He also just turned all of 21. I guess his career is over since there is no way he can improve. Thanks for the enlightenment

My sample size of 4 games was 17 shots. Your sample size of February was 20 shots. Please tell me what statistics course you took that lied and told you that 20 shots of three point shooting was statistically relevant and 17 shots wasn't so I can demand your money back for you as both samples are completely irrelevant. What isn't irrelevant is that Ausar can't shoot. He could end up having a 12 year career similar to Eduardo Najera, but it won't be as anything more than a defensive role player. When you are holding out hope that he can improve to the point of being as terrible at shooting as Andre Roberson was it is time to give up on thinking that player is going to be significant part of winning.

I hope Detroit gets a competent GM this off-season and they make some moves that actually put Detroit heading in the right direction instead of continuing to wreck that organization.

Feb/Mar was my reference so that’s 16 games and 37 shots if accuracy matters to you.

[One_and_Done]

OKC gets: Ausar Thompson, #5
DET gets: Cason Wallace, #12

Detroit adds desperately needed shooting and a guy with Jrue upside in my view. OKC adds an elite defender and rebounder who basically answers the question "what if Josh Giddey couldn't shoot at all but was much better otherwise" and badly needs to play next to Chet.

So the Thunder trade Wallace and #12 for #5? Why is Thompson in the trade? OKC doesn't want him unless he learns to shoot, and if he does Detroit doesn't need to trade him. OKC passes. Wallace looked pretty good IMO, and I think he's worth more than trading up 7 spots in this terrible draft. Plus do they really want all that extra dead salary on their books from Thompson's contract?

[One_and_Done]

OKC gets: Ausar Thompson, #5
DET gets: Cason Wallace, #12

Detroit adds desperately needed shooting and a guy with Jrue upside in my view. OKC adds an elite defender and rebounder who basically answers the question "what if Josh Giddey couldn't shoot at all but was much better otherwise" and badly needs to play next to Chet.

OKC wouldn't consider this. Detroit probably isn't willing to give up on Ausar at this point because they wouldn't have drafted him without thinking he can either develop some shooting or that they can find players to surround him with to provide it. Detroit has no reason to improve as their picks go out if they get better. They could take Sheppard or Dillingham to put next to Cade and improve their shooting/spacing.

They could trade Cade to the Spurs or Magic and start over. The Spurs could send them a solid pick package. Orlando could send WCJ, who could make a nice center that can stretch the floor to help with their spacing, along with some picks. The real question is how does Detroit view Ausar? Is he a role player who they can develop over the next 2-3 years or is he basically a finished product as a defensive specialist with no shooting ability. His FT% suggests he'll struggle to develop shooting, but does he do enough other things well enough to become your Giannis type? If so you just add a bunch of shooting and 3/D types around him. Cason would be the type of player you bring in to play with him not trade him for and OKC has no interest in adding anyone that can not shoot the 3 well.

If Detroit goes with a new GM they could easily justify trading Cade and hitting reset claiming that Cade doesn't elevate the team enough. The new GM might not like Ausar's unique skill set and trade him to the highest bidder whatever that offer happens to be. There would be no offer from OKC. This is just a terrible match of teams for these players. Adding Cason only makes sense if the plan is to play him next to Cade or if Cade is being moved in another trade. This is just a bad idea. I really don't like Ausar, but I understand how he can work with the right players around him. I just wouldn't want to build that team. He would be interesting in Utah next to Sexton, Lauri and Collins with another solid shooter, perhaps Knecht if Detroit is really ready to give up on Ausar already then maybe Utah could toss them a pick package for him.

Spurs would definitely want Cade. Make a trade offer for that. Cade has real value.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Feb/Mar was my reference so that’s 16 games and 37 shots if accuracy matters to you.

He shot 27% from 3 in Feb/March. Not promising. He also shot 47% from the FT line in Feb/March. Very discouraging. Again, he's going to have to become great at a lot of things to make up for that shooting to ever be more than a role player off the bench for a team that has goals of winning playoff games. Detroit is so far away from that they can give him a lot of minutes to develop and hope it works. If I were Detroit and I was planning on building around Ausar in hopes he becomes my Giannis type of point forward with great defense I'd move Cade and make Ausar the primary ball handler next year. I don't like building around those types of players, but it can work if you plan it out and put the right type of players around him.

I'd be looking to draft Sheppard or Dillingham to go with Fontecchino and find a good 3pt shooting stretch 5 and 3&D SG. It COULD work. Ausar could develop just enough shooting to be similar to Giannis or he could never develop enough shooting and be a lesser version of Ben Simmons that the defense dares to shoot.