Nuggets, Cavs, Magic Retool

jredsaz · Post #1 » by **jredsaz** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:21 am

Nuggets receive Franz Wagner, Moritz Wagner
Cavaliers receive Michael Porter Jr, #28
Magic receive Darius Garland

Nuggets split one player into two and getting some cap flexibility. Franz has upside and playmaking that can help spell Joker and Murray. Nuggets aren’t a high volume 3 point shooting team but Wagner 3% is tough.

Cavs land a big wing who can shoot the lights out. Still only 25 and staying healthy. They still have a move left with Allen to reshape the team around Spida.

Magic get their dynamic PG. Garland fits their timeline and checks a bunch of their boxes. Magic essentially deciding to pay Garland over Franz.

JB2 · Post #2 » by **JB2** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:31 am

I suspect Orlando fans will not react well to this.

Just sign D'lo and not give up a long term key piece?

jredsaz · Post #3 » by **jredsaz** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:44 am

JB2 wrote:I suspect Orlando fans will not react well to this.

Just sign D'lo and not give up a long term key piece?

I thought about sending Suggs instead but I think his role as a POA defender might be more important than Franz playmaking given the roster construct.

I think Garland is a better player than D’lo but I understand your point. Just think Garland can be a long term key piece like Franz. D’lo isn’t.

Post #4 » by **jbk1234** » Mon May 27, 2024 5:05 am

MPJ is just too risky.

BelgradeNugget · Post #5 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Mon May 27, 2024 7:49 am

Finally, one MPJ trade proposal that makes sense. It is usually something like MPJ + 1st for nothing, nothing and nothing.
I still wouldn't do it because of the fit of Nuggets starting 5. I think they have more championships in them and any move could be risky.
Anyway, good idea.

orlando_joe · Post #6 » by **orlando_joe** » Mon May 27, 2024 12:19 pm

magic not busting up wagner,suggs,banchero for garland come on..magic have plenty of assets and time to add to those guys

Nyce_1 · Post #7 » by **Nyce_1** » Mon May 27, 2024 1:09 pm

What makes orlando special is them having two 6-10 jumbo wings that can create. Giving up one makes them more traditional and less special. If this is the cost for Garland, I think they pass. The ultimate goal is find a PG to add to Paolo, Franz, & Suggs.

The value is accurate though, IMO.

Skybox · Post #8 » by **Skybox** » Mon May 27, 2024 1:33 pm

Not sure why DEN is here…IF ORL would consider moving Franz for Garland (I don’t think they would - maybe part of a bigger pkg for Garland/Allen)…CLE would prefer Franz to MPJ

All three principals disappointed somewhat in playoffs, but Franz has highest upside imo. He’s the best defender of the group, is the most unique size/skill guy. MPJ & Garland are better shooters, but Franz isn’t as bad as he shot it lately. Very few in history (@ 6’10) can handle & get to the rim like Franz…he’s more ‘unicorn’ than either and the youngest.

MartinsIzAfraud · Post #9 » by **MartinsIzAfraud** » Mon May 27, 2024 1:54 pm

JB2 wrote:I suspect Orlando fans will not react well to this.

Just sign D'lo and not give up a long term key piece?

D’lo or Monk or Tyus or trade for Simons before you sell low on Franz.

jredsaz · Post #10 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 12:15 am

Skybox wrote:Not sure why DEN is here…IF ORL would consider moving Franz for Garland (I don’t think they would - maybe part of a bigger pkg for Garland/Allen)…CLE would prefer Franz to MPJ

All three principals disappointed somewhat in playoffs, but Franz has highest upside imo. He’s the best defender of the group, is the most unique size/skill guy. MPJ & Garland are better shooters, but Franz isn’t as bad as he shot it lately. Very few in history (@ 6’10) can handle & get to the rim like Franz…he’s more ‘unicorn’ than either and the youngest.

Franz value last year, sure. Idk now. MPJ will disappear in games but his shot is pretty unassailable. His defense has improved. He has tons of playoff experience. Ready for more on a new team? Mitchell over Garland means they want to win now.

jredsaz · Post #11 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 12:18 am

orlando_joe wrote:magic not busting up wagner,suggs,banchero for garland come on..magic have plenty of assets and time to add to those guys

Garland checks all their boxes but if you think Franz is an All NBA regular then you don’t make the trade. Fair enough.

Post #12 » by **jbk1234** » Tue May 28, 2024 12:19 am

jredsaz wrote:
Skybox wrote:Not sure why DEN is here…IF ORL would consider moving Franz for Garland (I don’t think they would - maybe part of a bigger pkg for Garland/Allen)…CLE would prefer Franz to MPJ

All three principals disappointed somewhat in playoffs, but Franz has highest upside imo. He’s the best defender of the group, is the most unique size/skill guy. MPJ & Garland are better shooters, but Franz isn’t as bad as he shot it lately. Very few in history (@ 6’10) can handle & get to the rim like Franz…he’s more ‘unicorn’ than either and the youngest.

Franz value last year, sure. Idk now. MPJ will disappear in games but his shot is pretty unassailable. His defense has improved. He has tons of playoff experience. Ready for more on a new team? Mitchell over Garland means they want to win now.

I really wouldn't want to trade Garland to the Magic, but if the Cavs decided to do that, I hope they take back the Wagned brothers over MPJ because I just don't trust his health status.

orlando_joe · Post #13 » by **orlando_joe** » Tue May 28, 2024 12:31 am

jredsaz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:magic not busting up wagner,suggs,banchero for garland come on..magic have plenty of assets and time to add to those guys

Garland checks all their boxes but if you think Franz is an All NBA regular then you don’t make the trade. Fair enough.

why does franz need to be all nba regular ??? you are not really saying you think garland is are you???
i just think a 6'10 2-way wing with more upside and team control has more value then garland a pg..there are a lot more pg out there
this trade leaves much harder spot to fill...imo

jredsaz · Post #14 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 12:43 am

jbk1234 wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Skybox wrote:Not sure why DEN is here…IF ORL would consider moving Franz for Garland (I don’t think they would - maybe part of a bigger pkg for Garland/Allen)…CLE would prefer Franz to MPJ

All three principals disappointed somewhat in playoffs, but Franz has highest upside imo. He’s the best defender of the group, is the most unique size/skill guy. MPJ & Garland are better shooters, but Franz isn’t as bad as he shot it lately. Very few in history (@ 6’10) can handle & get to the rim like Franz…he’s more ‘unicorn’ than either and the youngest.

Franz value last year, sure. Idk now. MPJ will disappear in games but his shot is pretty unassailable. His defense has improved. He has tons of playoff experience. Ready for more on a new team? Mitchell over Garland means they want to win now.

I really wouldn't want to trade Garland to the Magic, but if the Cavs decided to do that, I hope they take back the Wagned brothers over MPJ because I just don't trust his health status.

Totally fair but I mean Cavs have to get better shooting from their wings at some point :lol:

Skybox · Post #15 » by **Skybox** » Tue May 28, 2024 1:17 am

jredsaz wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Franz value last year, sure. Idk now. MPJ will disappear in games but his shot is pretty unassailable. His defense has improved. He has tons of playoff experience. Ready for more on a new team? Mitchell over Garland means they want to win now.

I really wouldn't want to trade Garland to the Magic, but if the Cavs decided to do that, I hope they take back the Wagned brothers over MPJ because I just don't trust his health status.

Totally fair but I mean Cavs have to get better shooting from their wings at some point

Mikal Bridges seems like the guy...Ingram a distant second

jredsaz · Post #16 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 3:31 am

Skybox wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I really wouldn't want to trade Garland to the Magic, but if the Cavs decided to do that, I hope they take back the Wagned brothers over MPJ because I just don't trust his health status.

Totally fair but I mean Cavs have to get better shooting from their wings at some point

Mikal Bridges seems like the guy...Ingram a distant second

That’s gunna cost a lot more than Garland but both are better than MPJ for sure

jredsaz · Post #17 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 3:38 am

orlando_joe wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:magic not busting up wagner,suggs,banchero for garland come on..magic have plenty of assets and time to add to those guys

Garland checks all their boxes but if you think Franz is an All NBA regular then you don’t make the trade. Fair enough.

why does franz need to be all nba regular ??? you are not really saying you think garland is are you???
i just think a 6'10 2-way wing with more upside and team control has more value then garland a pg..there are a lot more pg out there
this trade leaves much harder spot to fill...imo

All NBA guy is probably more accurate. Again, I think Garland checks all the boxes. I think he will be an all star regular if he is in the right situation. I agree with your points but getting a serviceable 3/D wing paired with Garland/Suggs/Banchero could produce better results sooner because of fit.

orlando_joe · Post #18 » by **orlando_joe** » Tue May 28, 2024 11:12 am

jredsaz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Garland checks all their boxes but if you think Franz is an All NBA regular then you don’t make the trade. Fair enough.

why does franz need to be all nba regular ??? you are not really saying you think garland is are you???
i just think a 6'10 2-way wing with more upside and team control has more value then garland a pg..there are a lot more pg out there
this trade leaves much harder spot to fill...imo

All NBA guy is probably more accurate. Again, I think Garland checks all the boxes. I think he will be an all star regular if he is in the right situation. I agree with your points but getting a serviceable 3/D wing paired with Garland/Suggs/Banchero could produce better results sooner because of fit.

the box he does not check is size and defense he is listed as 6'1 you know that is closer to 6 flat one way pg.is anyone sure he would be happy in orlando? franz by all signs is very happy .for me franz checks all boxes and exceeds some boxes his ball handling for his size is not common and really believe his 3pt shooting was just off yr...magic have 40 mill in cap space and have what 6 firsts and 4 swaps they could trade 10 seconds plus a couple recent lottery picks if they wanted to add a solid pg ...this trade would also take there best offensive big from bench making 1 more hole and use up this summers cap and then dont have money to fill the 3 spot?
why would they break up the trio ? again to make a harder hole to fill? with no money to fill it?

jredsaz · Post #19 » by **jredsaz** » Tue May 28, 2024 8:16 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:why does franz need to be all nba regular ??? you are not really saying you think garland is are you???
i just think a 6'10 2-way wing with more upside and team control has more value then garland a pg..there are a lot more pg out there
this trade leaves much harder spot to fill...imo

All NBA guy is probably more accurate. Again, I think Garland checks all the boxes. I think he will be an all star regular if he is in the right situation. I agree with your points but getting a serviceable 3/D wing paired with Garland/Suggs/Banchero could produce better results sooner because of fit.

the box he does not check is size and defense he is listed as 6'1 you know that is closer to 6 flat one way pg.is anyone sure he would be happy in orlando? franz by all signs is very happy .for me franz checks all boxes and exceeds some boxes his ball handling for his size is not common and really believe his 3pt shooting was just off yr...magic have 40 mill in cap space and have what 6 firsts and 4 swaps they could trade 10 seconds plus a couple recent lottery picks if they wanted to add a solid pg ...this trade would also take there best offensive big from bench making 1 more hole and use up this summers cap and then dont have money to fill the 3 spot?
why would they break up the trio ? again to make a harder hole to fill? with no money to fill it?

I get that you’re married to Franz and his fit in Orlando but Garland provides what no one else of their roster does. The trade has merit. That doesn’t mean that if you or I were running the Magic that the trade would be executed.

orlando_joe · Post #20 » by **orlando_joe** » Tue May 28, 2024 8:36 pm

jredsaz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
All NBA guy is probably more accurate. Again, I think Garland checks all the boxes. I think he will be an all star regular if he is in the right situation. I agree with your points but getting a serviceable 3/D wing paired with Garland/Suggs/Banchero could produce better results sooner because of fit.

the box he does not check is size and defense he is listed as 6'1 you know that is closer to 6 flat one way pg.is anyone sure he would be happy in orlando? franz by all signs is very happy .for me franz checks all boxes and exceeds some boxes his ball handling for his size is not common and really believe his 3pt shooting was just off yr...magic have 40 mill in cap space and have what 6 firsts and 4 swaps they could trade 10 seconds plus a couple recent lottery picks if they wanted to add a solid pg ...this trade would also take there best offensive big from bench making 1 more hole and use up this summers cap and then dont have money to fill the 3 spot?
why would they break up the trio ? again to make a harder hole to fill? with no money to fill it?

I get that you’re married to Franz and his fit in Orlando but Garland provides what no one else of their roster does. The trade has merit. That doesn’t mean that if you or I were running the Magic that the trade would be executed.

no i dont see merit..the point is you can get a pg without trading franz its simple magic have space and asets ..you can get one in fa simple...there is no merit to trade franz its simple for most