[The Athletic, Shams] Weaver out in Detroit

[Wolveswin]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

[HadAnEffectHere]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

1. Ausar is a PF
2. This roster is absolutely terrible

You need a stretch 5 who can defend and a very good SG and you have no way to get them.

[Wolveswin]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

1. Ausar is a PF
2. This roster is absolutely terrible

You need a stretch 5 who can defend and a very good SG and you have no way to get them.

Rome wasn’t built with one trade. At least now Pistons have a legit and proven top player in NBA who is young, locked in and ready to lead. Give it time grasshopper.

Ausar is a wonderful defensive SG pairing with a Trae Young type. As Pistons acquire more around Trae, Ausar can move around lineup (flexibility) or be upgraded all together. All in due time.

[Snakebites]

Weaver had terrible luck with the ping pong balls. All of his 1st round picks were completely defensible at the time.

2020:
Hayes(7) (yeah this one hurts for sure, but he was a highly regarded prospect). Passed on Deni (9), Vassell (11), Halliburton (12).
Stewart (16) (Solid Pick)
Bey (18) (Solid Pick, was eventually traded away).

Passing on Maxey (20) hurts, but they put their money on Hayes and it didn't work out. Took Solid role players in Stewart & Bey.

2021:
Cade (1) (I would have taken Mobley), but he was the consensus #1 that year.

2022:
Ivey (5) (As stated above, only Jalen Williams taken at 12 makes this hurt). He was the consensus pick here.
Duren (13) (He has incredible athleticism and puts up numbers. Defense has been an issue. Would Eason, Mark Williams, and Kelsey have fit better?)

2023:
Thompson (5) (too early to tell).

Aside from Hayes, you can't really fault any of his picks. Detroit isn't exactly a FA destination. They had cap space but no one was willing to sign there.

Nobody is really faulting him for not landing Wemby or Chet (who was by my memory first on our board that year). Those things happen and it's nobody's fault.

It's about what he did with the picks he had.

Any individual draft mistake can be excused, rationalized, or justified. Every team makes mistakes, even teams that are great at playing the draft game have some flops in their history.

It's the aggregate that can't be excused.

[youngcrev]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

I think there's probably something there with these 3 teams that makes sense, but I have a hard time seeing Atlanta trading for Towns in a scenario that they trade Trae.

[Wolveswin]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

I think there's probably something there with these 3 teams that makes sense, but I have a hard time seeing Atlanta trading for Towns in a scenario that they trade Trae.

Hawks are interesting landing spot for Towns. On one hand, one might think to pair Towns with Trae.

On the other hand, Murray is in Atlanta too - and he has a value contract that blends well with Towns. Meaning, for combined salary, averages out to pretty good for starting PG or SG and PF or C position solved.

Financials of a Max or Supermax Trae and Supermax Towns and max Jalen Johnson is scary financial proposition in Atlanta.

[youngcrev]

To Hawks: Towns + Ivey + Fournier (or other Pistons filler)

To Wolves: Cade Cunningham + Capela

To Pistons: Trae Young + Hunter + Moore Jr. + #27

Fresh start for Pistons, and Trae Young in Detroit, getting arguably the best player in the deal. Trae is more proven than Cade and should be motivated to lead Detroit to wins.

Duren | Stewart | Wiseman back?
Hunter or #5 | Stewart
#5 or Hunter | TBJ
Thompson | Grimes | Moore Jr
Young | Sasser

Still have plenty of cap and flexibility to add a quality player that fits a win-now roster.

I think there's probably something there with these 3 teams that makes sense, but I have a hard time seeing Atlanta trading for Towns in a scenario that they trade Trae.

Hawks are interesting landing spot for Towns. On one hand, one might think to pair Towns with Trae.

On the other hand, Murray is in Atlanta too - and he has a value contract that blends well with Towns. Meaning, for combined salary, averages out to pretty good for starting PG or SG and PF or C position solved.

Financials of a Max or Supermax Trae and Supermax Towns and max Jalen Johnson is scary financial proposition in Atlanta.

It's just not a talented enough team though. Dejounte is a mediocre starting guard, not a foundational piece. And Towns isn't good enough to just put a bunch of solid pieces around and hope to contend for anything.

I also don't think Jalen Johnson is a max guy, at least not yet.

If future financials are that big of an issue, they probably just don't trade for Towns in the first place.

[Wolveswin]

I think there's probably something there with these 3 teams that makes sense, but I have a hard time seeing Atlanta trading for Towns in a scenario that they trade Trae.

Hawks are interesting landing spot for Towns. On one hand, one might think to pair Towns with Trae.

On the other hand, Murray is in Atlanta too - and he has a value contract that blends well with Towns. Meaning, for combined salary, averages out to pretty good for starting PG or SG and PF or C position solved.

Financials of a Max or Supermax Trae and Supermax Towns and max Jalen Johnson is scary financial proposition in Atlanta.

It's just not a talented enough team though. Dejounte is a mediocre starting guard, not a foundational piece. And Towns isn't good enough to just put a bunch of solid pieces around and hope to contend for anything.

I also don't think Jalen Johnson is a max guy, at least not yet.

If future financials are that big of an issue, they probably just don't trade for Towns in the first place.

Gosh I don’t know. I will have to disagree with you (a lot on that).

Sarr | Okongwu
Towns
Jalen Johnson | Bey
Ivey | BB | Griffin
Murray | Bufkin

That is a very talented roster - in the East - and not even fully baked. MLE, vets and deeper bench still TBD (including a current 23M TPE and trade as proposed can create like a 27M TPE).

Plus, Hawks might not hold many of their immediate draft picks, but this very offseason can offer 3x 1sts + 2x swaps. So if they want to do their “Gobert” or “Mitchell” all-in trade to complete the championship level roster - that deal could present itself.

[oldncreaky]

Hawks are interesting landing spot for Towns. On one hand, one might think to pair Towns with Trae.

On the other hand, Murray is in Atlanta too - and he has a value contract that blends well with Towns. Meaning, for combined salary, averages out to pretty good for starting PG or SG and PF or C position solved.

Financials of a Max or Supermax Trae and Supermax Towns and max Jalen Johnson is scary financial proposition in Atlanta.

It's just not a talented enough team though. Dejounte is a mediocre starting guard, not a foundational piece. And Towns isn't good enough to just put a bunch of solid pieces around and hope to contend for anything.

I also don't think Jalen Johnson is a max guy, at least not yet.

If future financials are that big of an issue, they probably just don't trade for Towns in the first place.

Gosh I don’t know. I will have to disagree with you (a lot on that).

Sarr | Okongwu
Towns
Jalen Johnson | Bey
Ivey | BB | Griffin
Murray | Bufkin

That is a very talented roster - in the East - and not even fully baked. MLE, vets and deeper bench still TBD (including a current 23M TPE and trade as proposed can create like a 27M TPE).

Plus, Hawks might not hold many of their immediate draft picks, but this very offseason can offer 3x 1sts + 2x swaps. So if they want to do their “Gobert” or “Mitchell” all-in trade to complete the championship level roster - that deal could present itself.

That just looks like a modified version of the 2024 Atlanta Hawks (Ivey instead of Trae, Towns instead of Hunter, rookie Sarr instead of Capella). Reminder: the Hawks won 36 games and bombed out of the play-in -- and we have a thread "You are the GM of the Hawks . . ." where a few posts are arguing that they should bottom out and rebuild.

That would be a horrible use of $60M in cap space

[Wolveswin]

It's just not a talented enough team though. Dejounte is a mediocre starting guard, not a foundational piece. And Towns isn't good enough to just put a bunch of solid pieces around and hope to contend for anything.

I also don't think Jalen Johnson is a max guy, at least not yet.

If future financials are that big of an issue, they probably just don't trade for Towns in the first place.

Gosh I don’t know. I will have to disagree with you (a lot on that).

Sarr | Okongwu
Towns
Jalen Johnson | Bey
Ivey | BB | Griffin
Murray | Bufkin

That is a very talented roster - in the East - and not even fully baked. MLE, vets and deeper bench still TBD (including a current 23M TPE and trade as proposed can create like a 27M TPE).

Plus, Hawks might not hold many of their immediate draft picks, but this very offseason can offer 3x 1sts + 2x swaps. So if they want to do their “Gobert” or “Mitchell” all-in trade to complete the championship level roster - that deal could present itself.

That just looks like a modified version of the 2024 Atlanta Hawks (Ivey instead of Trae, Towns instead of Hunter, rookie Sarr instead of Capella). Reminder: the Hawks won 36 games and bombed out of the play-in -- and we have a thread "You are the GM of the Hawks . . ." where a few posts are arguing that they should bottom out and rebuild.

That would be a horrible use of $60M in cap space

Am I reading this right? You are trying to draw parallels in play between Hunter and Towns? Sarr and Capela. I am not even sure what to say. I think you should just move on.

[oldncreaky]

Gosh I don’t know. I will have to disagree with you (a lot on that).

Sarr | Okongwu
Towns
Jalen Johnson | Bey
Ivey | BB | Griffin
Murray | Bufkin

That is a very talented roster - in the East - and not even fully baked. MLE, vets and deeper bench still TBD (including a current 23M TPE and trade as proposed can create like a 27M TPE).

Plus, Hawks might not hold many of their immediate draft picks, but this very offseason can offer 3x 1sts + 2x swaps. So if they want to do their “Gobert” or “Mitchell” all-in trade to complete the championship level roster - that deal could present itself.

That just looks like a modified version of the 2024 Atlanta Hawks (Ivey instead of Trae, Towns instead of Hunter, rookie Sarr instead of Capella). Reminder: the Hawks won 36 games and bombed out of the play-in -- and we have a thread "You are the GM of the Hawks . . ." where a few posts are arguing that they should bottom out and rebuild.

That would be a horrible use of $60M in cap space

Am I reading this right? You are trying to draw parallels in play between Hunter and Towns? Sarr and Capela. I am not even sure what to say. I think you should just move on.

I didn't draw any parallels.

You are the one that proposed the Pistons become a team with the same roster as the 2024 Atlanta Hawks, with 3 notable changes. I merely spelled out what those roster changes are

[Wolveswin]

That just looks like a modified version of the 2024 Atlanta Hawks (Ivey instead of Trae, Towns instead of Hunter, rookie Sarr instead of Capella). Reminder: the Hawks won 36 games and bombed out of the play-in -- and we have a thread "You are the GM of the Hawks . . ." where a few posts are arguing that they should bottom out and rebuild.

That would be a horrible use of $60M in cap space

Am I reading this right? You are trying to draw parallels in play between Hunter and Towns? Sarr and Capela. I am not even sure what to say. I think you should just move on.

I didn't draw any parallels.

You are the one that proposed the Pistons become a team with the same roster as the 2024 Atlanta Hawks, with 3 notable changes. I merely spelled out what those roster changes are

I am so lost. You say you didn’t draw parallels- but you exactly did. The lineup listed was Hawks. But you are mentioning Pistons. You are exhausting

[One_and_Done]

Good riddance. Absolutely trash GM.

[shangrila]

This is in my crow pile. I had heard glowing things about what he was contributing under Presti in OKC and I thought this was a good hire. It was not a good hire.

I actually think he had some good moves, but they got really, really unlucky in the draft. There aren't the same kind of head-scratching draft day decisions (to me) as a guy like McNair picking Davion Mitchell while also having Fox AND Haliburton. So, I guess my opinion is - I think he had a bad run and should be gone, but I'm not sure he won't do a good job somewhere else.

I get that they've gotten pushed down twice now and that hurts, since obviously a higher pick is always better, but I don't see how they've been "unlucky" outside of that. Everyone they've picked has been a consensus good pick, from Ivey to Duran to Ausar and even Sasser.

There's 2 main issues I see:

1. It's clear Weaver was the driving force behind the "we can teach an athlete how to play basketball" mindset that infected OKC during the middle and later stages of the Westbrook/Durant era. Maybe that works if you have a good shooting coach; it's clear however that Detroit did not.

2. A lack of overall vision. I still can't see what this team is/was meant to be. How were the pieces going to fit together? How were they going to be developed? A smart GM would have developed a vision and built a team around that. Weaver, from what I can see, fell into the trap of just getting as much talent as possible and trying to force it to work. And when acquiring talent is the end goal you tend to make short sighted moves in pursuit of that "talent" (see Bagley and Wiseman).

I'm sure he'll get another job somewhere. And maybe like some coaches we see who turn out to be better assistants, maybe Weaver is really good in a lesser role. But if my team were to hire him on as the head guy in the future I'd be pissed.

[oldncreaky]

Am I reading this right? You are trying to draw parallels in play between Hunter and Towns? Sarr and Capela. I am not even sure what to say. I think you should just move on.

I didn't draw any parallels.

You are the one that proposed the Pistons become a team with the same roster as the 2024 Atlanta Hawks, with 3 notable changes. I merely spelled out what those roster changes are

I am so lost. You say you didn’t draw parallels- but you exactly did. The lineup listed was Hawks. But you are mentioning Pistons. You are exhausting

Sorry, only read the last couple of posts itt and didn't realise you were talking about another team's line up after trades -- but we are in a thread about Detroit, so I assumed it was Detroit