Philly, Detroit, New Orleans

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oldncreaky
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#41 » by oldncreaky » Wed Jun 5, 2024 7:30 pm

louc1970 wrote:
oldncreaky wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Will you say this next year if Cunningham looks over at SAS and thinks of how playing with Wemby is better for his career than waiting for Detroit to get a good Robin?


If Cunningham looks longingly at SAS, I'm sure a deal can be worked out: he will, after all, be a restricted free agent. I for one would be shocked if DET didn't match any offer Cade gets as a restricted FA, which means he will only move on a S&T deal that all 3 parties (Cade, Detroit, destination team) agree to.

Why would SAS offer anything to Detroit if they can sign Cunningham without giving up assets?


They wouldn't.

But then again, SAS cannot just "sign Cade" until and unless Cade becomes an unrestricted FA, probably in 2029 or 2030, but no sooner than July 1, 2026.

If you don't know the difference between a restricted free agent (RFA) and an unrestricted free agent (UFA), and how qualifying offers work, and how matching offers work, then I suggest you spend some time reading about the CBA. And if you do know the differences, and are just trolling me, that reflects on you.
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#42 » by Kalamazoo317 » Wed Jun 5, 2024 7:35 pm

What's hilarious is that OP thinks the difference between Cade thinking playing with Wemby would be a better playing situation is ... checks notes ... the difference between Stew + Grimes and Tobias Harris.

Also, for the record, Stew + Grimes + Harris is better than just Harris, so the Stew vs. Harris question is irrelevant. We can afford them all if we want. And not even sure Harris is the best free agent option for us.

If we're going to start giving up trade assets, hopefully it's for someone like Mikal Bridges, Brandon Ingram, KAT, Naz Reid, etc.
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#43 » by louc1970 » Wed Jun 5, 2024 10:39 pm

balsamic_ducks wrote:
louc1970 wrote:
oldncreaky wrote:
If Cunningham looks longingly at SAS, I'm sure a deal can be worked out: he will, after all, be a restricted free agent. I for one would be shocked if DET didn't match any offer Cade gets as a restricted FA, which means he will only move on a S&T deal that all 3 parties (Cade, Detroit, destination team) agree to.

Why would SAS offer anything to Detroit if they can sign Cunningham without giving up assets?

Do you understand how restricted FA works? for SAS to sign cade without giving up anything, detroit would have to refuse to match, or Cade turns down a max offer from detroit, signs the QO and plays an entire year on that before hitting UFA. Something no #1 has done

Do you understand them? Nothing stops Cunningham from taking the 1 year tenure and going on his way if Detroit does not show any signs of really wanting to compete.
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#44 » by louc1970 » Wed Jun 5, 2024 10:45 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:What's hilarious is that OP thinks the difference between Cade thinking playing with Wemby would be a better playing situation is ... checks notes ... the difference between Stew + Grimes and Tobias Harris.

Also, for the record, Stew + Grimes + Harris is better than just Harris, so the Stew vs. Harris question is irrelevant. We can afford them all if we want. And not even sure Harris is the best free agent option for us.

If we're going to start giving up trade assets, hopefully it's for someone like Mikal Bridges, Brandon Ingram, KAT, Naz Reid, etc.

No what is hilarious is you taking a simple statement and making it the end result.
What I have noticed is no piston fan has yet answered who are the top 3 FAs they would want to sign and how much it will take to get them.
I am always open to any discussion. And as I have said multiple times, maybe the trade idea is a bad one (for certain posters). But no Detroit fan has provided a solution to get that team competitive.
Sign Harris outright at $20m. No you are stuck with maybe 1 max contract (but this person will remain nameless).
Then what? Who is game changer for the other $15-20m?
Someone mentioned Oubre. He is going to get the MLE somewhere. So who else is it?
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#45 » by Kalamazoo317 » Thu Jun 6, 2024 2:33 am

louc1970 wrote:What I have noticed is no piston fan has yet answered who are the top 3 FAs they would want to sign and how much it will take to get them.


That's because it has little to nothing to do with the proposed trade? This isn't a free agency thread (though you're trying to get us to trade for unrestricted free agents for some reason ....).

louc1970 wrote:I am always open to any discussion. And as I have said multiple times, maybe the trade idea is a bad one (for certain posters). But no Detroit fan has provided a solution to get that team competitive.


It feels like you're trying to say "If you don't like my awful trade proposal, you need to come up with an immediate solution to make a 14 win team competitive."

That's likely *not* going to happen via free agency this year, bottom line. So we could go down the rabbit hole of other free agency options, but nothing's going to suddenly turn us into a contender. We need a *lot* of things to fall into place for that and even then it's not going to be a one year process. Suffice to say, we're not buying our way out of this mess.

We *might* be able to swing some trades here and there to start building something. Trading for an UFA isn't the path, though. I think Stew needs to either be part of our core or be part of a package for a star. He's one of the very very few players on our team that contributes on both sides of the ball. Grimes, if he can rediscover his three ball, might be about the only other one! So, yeah, not the types of players we're going to eagerly move on from at all.

Tobias probably isn't a top 10 free agency target for me. I don't hate the idea of him at around $10 million 1-1 with a team option for the second part. $20 million for him is crazy, imo, and I'd be a hard pass.

Some free agents I'd have some interest in for Detroit (since you asked):

Kyle Anderson (RFA but Minny's got a lot of money on the cap), Pat Beverly, Nic Claxton, Fontecchio (should be able to bring him back at a reasonable number), Gary Harris, Hartenstein, Derrick Jones Jr., Tyus Jones, Naji Marshall, Doug McDermott, Malik Monk, Royce O'Neale, Dario Saric, and Lamar Stevens. I imagine once player and team options get declined, there'll be some others.

Biggest way we're likely to improve, though, is through smart trades, draft picks, and internal player improvement, which will not be a one off-season process, and which won't involve trading young 3 and D role players for aging role players entering unrestricted free agency.
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#46 » by 7r5ur » Thu Jun 6, 2024 7:26 am

louc1970 wrote:
balsamic_ducks wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Why would SAS offer anything to Detroit if they can sign Cunningham without giving up assets?

Do you understand how restricted FA works? for SAS to sign cade without giving up anything, detroit would have to refuse to match, or Cade turns down a max offer from detroit, signs the QO and plays an entire year on that before hitting UFA. Something no #1 has done

Do you understand them? Nothing stops Cunningham from taking the 1 year tenure and going on his way if Detroit does not show any signs of really wanting to compete.

Nothing stops it except for the reality that guys don't turn down $200M+ max deals coming off of rookie contracts with the way the NBA is structured. He doesn't lose $20M in year 5 that he can never get back by taking the QO. He doesn't risk losing $200M+ to a freak injury. In today's NBA you sign the contract and ask for a trade if you want out.

And all of this is irrelevant to your trade proposal, because if the Pistons gave away multiple positive value assets that they could actually get a return for on the trade market, to sign an unrestricted free agent that they could have signed purely with cap space, Cade is FAR more likely to realize just how incompetent the franchise is. I'm not sure how this can be explained to you in any other way.

In that scenario, the Pistons seemingly wouldn't even know how free agency or the cap works at all, which would be troubling. Might really be time to relegate them to the G-League in that case.
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Re: Philly, Detroit, New Orleans 

Post#47 » by Mr Peanut » Thu Jun 6, 2024 9:46 am

louc1970 wrote:
balsamic_ducks wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Why would SAS offer anything to Detroit if they can sign Cunningham without giving up assets?

Do you understand how restricted FA works? for SAS to sign cade without giving up anything, detroit would have to refuse to match, or Cade turns down a max offer from detroit, signs the QO and plays an entire year on that before hitting UFA. Something no #1 has done

Do you understand them? Nothing stops Cunningham from taking the 1 year tenure and going on his way if Detroit does not show any signs of really wanting to compete.


Cade will be more likely to ask out if he realized his FO traded three assets for a guy they could've just signed outright in FA.

Not sure why you're willing to die on that hill, but can't say it's not amusing.

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