OKC / WAS / PDX - Coffers opened for Deni

[penbeast0]

Outsiders simply assume that all Wizards players are trash because the Wizards won 15 games.

I mean why come to a league-wide board if you believe that Wizards fans are completely objective but that outsiders all have zero ability to separate talent from w/l record? Just stick on Wizards fansites where you believe you will get a more accurate view of the value of Wizards players in that case.

Do you believe outsiders think Wemby is trash?

I think its okay for people to have a different value on a role player for very specific reasons they have provided without it being treated reductively the way multiple Wizards fans are itt.

I don't think anyone ever said that Wizards fans are even remotely objective. They have traditionally swung between irrational optimism and crushing pessimism. What we have said is that Washington fans value Avdija higher than the league does . . . not that we are necessarily correct in that evaluation. But, to get Wiz fans to sign on, you either have to meet those expectations or try a different player.

My rating of him is below that of Nate and TRW but still thought the OP was a little light (another 1st with middle of the round expectations or Cason Wallace instead of Giddey or something of that ilk) but higher than most non-Wizards fans. I do have a fear that he's the next Robert Covington but he could be the next Draymond Green to name two players whose fanbase evaluations differed here dramatically from fans of other teams when they were young defensive studs.

[JayTWill]

I watched Deni up until the start of 2024 and I am a fan of his game and I like the progress he had made up until that point. I'm not sure how his game has evolved since January.

Prior to February 7th, Deni averaged
12.6 points
6.2 rebounds
3.8 assists
.596 TS%
in 27.3 minutes per game

After February 7th, Deni averaged:
18.9 points
9.3 rebounds
3.8 assists
.597 TS%
in 35.6 minutes per game

And that was without any idiosyncratic boost in 3P%. He shot .389 from 3 before February, and it he actually shot worse from February onward (.356).

For the season up until January it seemed like he had added some arch to his shot increasing his percentages from the perimeter, did a good job of attacking shifts in the defense with improved finishing at the rim while still get out in transition at Washington's insane pace and being a good passer in the half court. He also continued to show his defensive versatility. All of that in a young 22-23 year old locked into an under-market deal until 2028 is great value.

But I also saw a guy that still released the ball a little too far in front of his face rushing to get a shot off under contest when forced to which led to poor percentages in those situations. He also had a bit of a habit of turning down open perimeter shots in the half court especially in December and dribbling the ball to nowhere leading to worse shots for his teammates later in the clock which made me question his confidence again. It was killing my dream of adding him to the Knicks since Hart also has that bad habit.

And while he does have a good handle for a 4 I did not come away with the feeling that he was anywhere close to being ready to be the focus of opposing teams' defenses as a top 2 offensive creator. He acted as the primary/secondary creator with the second unit most of the time but he still was shaky going left and creating separation while being a bit turnover prone under pressure.

I know his numbers are great but has he improved his weaknesses since the beginning of the year? I still wonder what would happen if teams pressed up on him and forced him left all game. If he was traded to a team like OKC what role would you see him playing? Do you think he would function well in Giddey's role on offense in the postseason? Obviously he is better defensively.

[Dn4sty]

I think the swing for Deni is whether the shooting this season was real.

I don’t know if we have a large enough sample size to say one way or another.

As such both the Wizards and whatever hypothetical team that would acquire him could end up looking really good or bad.

To me at best (aka his ceiling) he’s the 4th best player on a multi year contending team and maybe even has a year or so where he could be the 3rd best if you squint and almost close your eyes. This assumes of course his shot holds up.

His floor is a bench bigger wing/PF who gives you some energy, defensive, and make some plays with the second unit. This is assuming his shot doesn’t hold up.

As far as whether the Wizards should or should not keep him, I lean towards getting more bites at the Apple (aka draft picks) because the current roster is devoid of high end talent. If the Wizards had another legit guy they had already acquired at the draft (a guy who looks like a multi year all star or better) moving forward, then I’d be much more inclined to keep Deni. But the odds of getting that guy in this draft seem to be lower than normal, even with pick 2, so I’d want picks from years in the future for him.


tldr


I can see why wizards want to keep him, but I think they should be more than open to moving him with the understanding that players often don’t hit their ceiling, but are better than their floor. In doing so the get more bites at the apple and then when they find their guys, they can add a player like Deni to fill out their core.

[nate33]

To me at best (aka his ceiling) he’s the 4th best player on a multi year contending team and maybe even has a year or so where he could be the 3rd best if you squint and almost close your eyes. This assumes of course his shot holds up.

No. This is his floor, not his ceiling. He is already good enough to be the third or fourth best player on Dallas, for example. He is would easily start on OKC and would probably be the 4th starter in that he is better than Dort.

His floor is a bench bigger wing/PF who gives you some energy, defensive, and make some plays with the second unit. This is assuming his shot doesn’t hold up.

A bench big? Ridiculous. The only team I can think of where he isn't a top 5 player is Boston and perhaps Minnesota and Denver. There may be a handful of other teams where he wouldn't start because the strength of that team is at the forward position, but he's a better than the 5th starter on most teams and better than the 4th starter on a lot of playoff teams.

[Dn4sty]

To me at best (aka his ceiling) he’s the 4th best player on a multi year contending team and maybe even has a year or so where he could be the 3rd best if you squint and almost close your eyes. This assumes of course his shot holds up.

No. This is his floor, not his ceiling. He is already good enough to be the third or fourth best player on Dallas, for example. He is would easily start on OKC and would probably be the 4th starter in that he is better than Dort.

His floor is a bench bigger wing/PF who gives you some energy, defensive, and make some plays with the second unit. This is assuming his shot doesn’t hold up.

A bench big? Ridiculous. The only team I can think of where he isn't a top 5 player is Boston and perhaps Minnesota and Denver. There may be a handful of other teams where he wouldn't start because the strength of that team is at the forward position, but he's a better than the 5th starter on most teams and better than the 4th starter on a lot of playoff teams.

This was the first year he actually shot the ball at a level that is respectable and even in so doing the volume isn’t gigantic.

37.4% from 3 on 3.1 attempts per game might certainly be the floor, but I and others aren’t convinced. Also I could be reading it wrong, but it seems like you are under the impression that he will be close or maybe eventually hit an all star ceiling. If that’s true, then keep him, but also be prepared for others to disagree.

Obviously time will tell.

[nate33]

To me at best (aka his ceiling) he’s the 4th best player on a multi year contending team and maybe even has a year or so where he could be the 3rd best if you squint and almost close your eyes. This assumes of course his shot holds up.

No. This is his floor, not his ceiling. He is already good enough to be the third or fourth best player on Dallas, for example. He is would easily start on OKC and would probably be the 4th starter in that he is better than Dort.

His floor is a bench bigger wing/PF who gives you some energy, defensive, and make some plays with the second unit. This is assuming his shot doesn’t hold up.

A bench big? Ridiculous. The only team I can think of where he isn't a top 5 player is Boston and perhaps Minnesota and Denver. There may be a handful of other teams where he wouldn't start because the strength of that team is at the forward position, but he's a better than the 5th starter on most teams and better than the 4th starter on a lot of playoff teams.

This was the first year he actually shot the ball at a level that is respectable and even in so doing the volume isn’t gigantic.

37.4% from 3 on 3.1 attempts per game might certainly be the floor, but I and others aren’t convinced. Also I could be reading it wrong, but it seems like you are under the impression that he will be close or maybe eventually hit an all star ceiling. If that’s true, then keep him, but also be prepared for others to disagree.

Obviously time will tell.

I think he will be just below an All-Star because the All-Star game favors scorers. But I think he will have a career similar to Aaron Gordon, Derrick White or OG Anunoby - the kind of guy who helps teams win, but doesn't get enough glory to make an All-Star game.

[9 and 20]

Another Wiz fan weighing in (there are more of us than you'd think but we're too embarrassed to come out of the shadows very often).

In the original deal, we'd just cut Portland out and take the 3 first round picks. Wiz supposedly have been asking for 2 first rounders for Kuz so I don't see them taking that for Deni, even understanding that not all first rounders are the same and they may not end up getting the 2 firsts for Kuz.

Value of 3 first rounders is probably right for Deni but I still doubt the Wiz trade him. Right now, at least. Maybe when he's got two years left on his deal and they can still get a couple of firsts for him at that point? They probably still want to see if there's any growth left in his game, especially if Kuz gets traded.

[DrModesty]

Dort is clearly better as a defender and as a shooter than Avdija at this point in time. Also on OKC Avdija would be relegated to a low usage player who would need his shooting to hold up to stay on the court in the playoffs. The rest of OKC's shooters are too marginal at this point to suffer a version of Avdija where he spends a series shooting at 28%

I do like Avdija a lot though. I fancy his player archetype.

[Devilanche]

I think at these price points, you trade Deni.

I think there’s a realistic overpay line that Washington moves him and this hits it.

i don’t believe they involve Portland and keep Dieng and the late first, obviously unless they just love someone at 7? They need as many shots as possible at building a core.

Dieng/Zacc/Bilal starting should be terrible next year, but they might develop really perfectly together honestly. 12th should get them Carter or McCain or such.. and you’re still not trying to win until after the 2026 draft anyways..

Yea there’s a price point or overpay that Washington will take a chance on the trade.

Not going to guess what’s that price.


It’s probably going to be built into how they are valuing the 12 pick selection this year and one of Giddey/Dieng/Joe/wiggins.

[arusinov]

Speaking about Deni's game I think this vid (done one game before 43 pts game) explains his progress this season best, and it's not from someone who is specifically Wizards fan or "Deni's stan".

Watch on YouTube

When Wizards fans and seemingly current management envision Deni's peak they see player with averages of 20+ / 8+ / 5+ which scores efficiently, while being 2nd or at least 3rd option on offense, and defending 1 - 4 very well.

Obviously other teams don't see Deni same way. They just look for a good "glue starter" or 6th man. And they certainly right that Deni didn't prove at all that he can reach the ceiling which is described above. They rightfully question whether the 3p% improvement is real thing, his ability to drive left, to pull-up and so on...

It's just question of hm... belief like with any other young improving player. Sure for many people this belief is complicated by the fact that Deni will play his 5th season in NBA already and played a lot minutes before this year, but the truth is - until around middle point of this year Wizards did very little to nothing at all to develop Avdija into that 20+ / 8+ / 5+ guy.

The real point is that Deni has extremely rare combination of size, athleticism, strength, high BBIQ and skills (at least in potential). And so when for example someone says that Dort is "better defender". Dort is 6'4". Probably if the task is to guard Brunson it's correct. But can he guard Randle or Ingram like Deni ? Or... it's true that Giddey is better ballhandler and distributor - but his athleticism is much much worse than Deni's...Deni has very quick first step for 6'9" guy, very strong, has very good vertical. He can bully-ball guy like Randle for and-1. He can dunk on Eubanks or even Giannis. He is elite in open court. He can run p&r as ball handler, can take slower defender (like Zion or Luka ...) one on one, can post up on smaller guards, shoot step-back 3P, and so on. Certainly he can distribute ball very well, and he's very good rebounder and yes... can defend 1 - 4. He didn't do all of this all the time and consistently enough but potential is there.

Will he reach his full potential - no one knows. But it's the reason while trading for Deni is now weird idea as no one can say what is his ceiling.

[TGW]

Dort is clearly better as a defender and as a shooter than Avdija at this point in time. Also on OKC Avdija would be relegated to a low usage player who would need his shooting to hold up to stay on the court in the playoffs. The rest of OKC's shooters are too marginal at this point to suffer a version of Avdija where he spends a series shooting at 28%

I do like Avdija a lot though. I fancy his player archetype.

Yea I don't buy that at all. Deni's career shooting averages is 45.7% from the field/32.7% from three vs. Dort's 40.3% from the field/34.7% from three. And that's not taking into consideration the quality of looks Dort gets because he is a complete afterthought for opposing defenses.

As for defense, Dort is a great defender but Deni is legitimate guard 1-4. The additional 5 inches of height makes a difference defensively and as for rebounding/passing, it's not even close.

[BlazersBroncos]

Dort is clearly better as a defender and as a shooter than Avdija at this point in time. Also on OKC Avdija would be relegated to a low usage player who would need his shooting to hold up to stay on the court in the playoffs. The rest of OKC's shooters are too marginal at this point to suffer a version of Avdija where he spends a series shooting at 28%

I do like Avdija a lot though. I fancy his player archetype.

Yea I don't buy that at all. Deni's career shooting averages is 45.7% from the field/32.7% from three vs. Dort's 40.3% from the field/34.7% from three. And that's not taking into consideration the quality of looks Dort gets because he is a complete afterthought for opposing defenses.

As for defense, Dort is a great defender but Deni is legitimate guard 1-4. The additional 5 inches of height makes a difference defensively and as for rebounding/passing, it's not even close.

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

Not saying Dort has similar value, just that he is very good in his own right. Last season he seemed to very quickly adapt to his new, 'on a goood team' role of lower shot volume as he transitioned to a true 3/D from a guy thrust into a role as a #3 option that he absolutley was not suited for.

[TGW]

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

What's POA?

[arusinov]

Dort is clearly better as a defender and as a shooter than Avdija at this point in time. Also on OKC Avdija would be relegated to a low usage player who would need his shooting to hold up to stay on the court in the playoffs. The rest of OKC's shooters are too marginal at this point to suffer a version of Avdija where he spends a series shooting at 28%

I do like Avdija a lot though. I fancy his player archetype.

Yea I don't buy that at all. Deni's career shooting averages is 45.7% from the field/32.7% from three vs. Dort's 40.3% from the field/34.7% from three. And that's not taking into consideration the quality of looks Dort gets because he is a complete afterthought for opposing defenses.

As for defense, Dort is a great defender but Deni is legitimate guard 1-4. The additional 5 inches of height makes a difference defensively and as for rebounding/passing, it's not even close.

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

Not saying Dort has similar value, just that he is very good in his own right. Last season he seemed to very quickly adapt to his new, 'on a goood team' role of lower shot volume as he transitioned to a true 3/D from a guy thrust into a role as a #3 option that he absolutley was not suited for.

Versatility is important, defensive rebounds are important, and Deni is still very good "point-of-attack" defender... He literally can stay before guys like Irving or Doncic or Brunson while also able to guard one on one guys like Randle or Ingram. Dort may be great against guards but can he guard PF ?

What's really wrong here is comparison of Dort and Deni as "shooters". Avdija is not shooter and not supposed to be shooter. He is playmaking wing. Actually it's less important for him to shoot this over-average 37+ 3F%, 34% will be ok if he takes pull-ups when it's required.
His main force is driving and finishing. He took 33.6% of his shots closer than 3ft from rim and scored on 73.7% of them. He also drawn 144 shooting fouls including 45 and-1s (comparing to Dort's 63.2% around basket, 73 shooting fouls and only 14 and-1s)
Deni mostly needs shooting to open drive lines for him...

[Devilanche]

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

What's POA?

Point of attack . Guarding the ball handler.

[JayTWill]

Spoiler:

Yea I don't buy that at all. Deni's career shooting averages is 45.7% from the field/32.7% from three vs. Dort's 40.3% from the field/34.7% from three. And that's not taking into consideration the quality of looks Dort gets because he is a complete afterthought for opposing defenses.

As for defense, Dort is a great defender but Deni is legitimate guard 1-4. The additional 5 inches of height makes a difference defensively and as for rebounding/passing, it's not even close.

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

Not saying Dort has similar value, just that he is very good in his own right. Last season he seemed to very quickly adapt to his new, 'on a goood team' role of lower shot volume as he transitioned to a true 3/D from a guy thrust into a role as a #3 option that he absolutley was not suited for.

Versatility is important, defensive rebounds are important, and Deni is still very good "point-of-attack" defender... He literally can stay before guys like Irving or Doncic or Brunson while also able to guard one on one guys like Randle or Ingram. Dort may be great against guards but can he guard PF ?

What's really wrong here is comparison of Dort and Deni as "shooters". Avdija is not shooter and not supposed to be shooter. He is playmaking wing. Actually it's less important for him to shoot this over-average 37+ 3F%, 34% will be ok if he takes pull-ups when it's required.
His main force is driving and finishing. He took 33.6% of his shots closer than 3ft from rim and scored on 73.7% of them. He also drawn 144 shooting fouls including 45 and-1s (comparing to Dort's 63.2% around basket, 73 shooting fouls and only 14 and-1s)
Deni mostly needs shooting to open drive lines for him...

Sometimes I feel like we casually throw around the words this guy can guard 1-4 or 5. As a Knicks fan I saw it constantly with OG after the mid-season trade. Constant posting of shooting percentages against OG. He is one of the best defenders in the league but he does have his limitations. Smaller quick guards can give him trouble at times as do some bigs.

Maxey had one poor shooting performance in January against the OG but he clearly showed that he was too fast for OG to guard in the pick and roll in the playoffs. Deni is a great guy to throw at certain players to switch up looks defensively but I have a hard time believing you want him guarding Brunson or Randle consistently unless you plan on sending some help. He has a range of guys that he can defend better than others.

My biggest question with Deni is how his current skillset would translate to a team trying to advance through the playoffs. Is he good enough to play on-ball while being the focal point of the defense? If not is he good enough off-ball where you would not just prefer a more traditional higher volume 3 and D player?

I think he is in a great situation right now to continue to develop his skills. There is no pressure to win games at the moment. Despite how terrible Poole was to begin the season he did provide a lightning rod to draw the vast majority of the negative attention for the team freeing others from some of the scrutiny and he actually did show improvement as the year went along.

Deni is young and on a great contract while giving the fanbase a little something to be excited about. They can live with the ups and downs of his development right now as they rebuild. It would probably take an overpay for me to trade him too. I just wouldn't automatically assume what has worked in DC will work on another team.

I just watched the hype of the Knicks adding a so-called 34 year old professional scorer in Bogey at the trade deadline. He just looked 34 and on his last legs to me. What worked in Detroit did not translate to New York. Some of that was adjusting to a new team. Some of that may have been Thibs basic offense.

But some of that was just not playing for a bottom 2 team in the league. Opponents can coast against those teams for long periods of the game without devoting a tremendous amount of attention or energy towards any one player. Better teams attract better efforts and the playoffs are a whole different animal.

[arusinov]

Spoiler:

I think this sells Dort short. He is able to guard up and down a slot and is a much, much better POA defender than Deni. He isnt as versatile (As Deni can slide up 2 slots) + Deni is a better off ball defender. But defensively its not really fair to not bring up how much better Dort is as a POA defender, especially against guards.

Not saying Dort has similar value, just that he is very good in his own right. Last season he seemed to very quickly adapt to his new, 'on a goood team' role of lower shot volume as he transitioned to a true 3/D from a guy thrust into a role as a #3 option that he absolutley was not suited for.

Versatility is important, defensive rebounds are important, and Deni is still very good "point-of-attack" defender... He literally can stay before guys like Irving or Doncic or Brunson while also able to guard one on one guys like Randle or Ingram. Dort may be great against guards but can he guard PF ?

What's really wrong here is comparison of Dort and Deni as "shooters". Avdija is not shooter and not supposed to be shooter. He is playmaking wing. Actually it's less important for him to shoot this over-average 37+ 3F%, 34% will be ok if he takes pull-ups when it's required.
His main force is driving and finishing. He took 33.6% of his shots closer than 3ft from rim and scored on 73.7% of them. He also drawn 144 shooting fouls including 45 and-1s (comparing to Dort's 63.2% around basket, 73 shooting fouls and only 14 and-1s)
Deni mostly needs shooting to open drive lines for him...

Sometimes I feel like we casually throw around the words this guy can guard 1-4 or 5. As a Knicks fan I saw it constantly with OG after the mid-season trade. Constant posting of shooting percentages against OG. He is one of the best defenders in the league but he does have his limitations. Smaller quick guards can give him trouble at times as do some bigs.

Maxey had one poor shooting performance in January against the OG but he clearly showed that he was too fast for OG to guard in the pick and roll in the playoffs. Deni is a great guy to throw at certain players to switch up looks defensively but I have a hard time believing you want him guarding Brunson or Randle consistently unless you plan on sending some help. He has a range of guys that he can defend better than others.

My biggest question with Deni is how his current skillset would translate to a team trying to advance through the playoffs. Is he good enough to play on-ball while being the focal point of the defense? If not is he good enough off-ball where you would not just prefer a more traditional higher volume 3 and D player?

I think he is in a great situation right now to continue to develop his skills. There is no pressure to win games at the moment. Despite how terrible Poole was to begin the season he did provide a lightning rod to draw the vast majority of the negative attention for the team freeing others from some of the scrutiny and he actually did show improvement as the year went along.

Deni is young and on a great contract while giving the fanbase a little something to be excited about. They can live with the ups and downs of his development right now as they rebuild. It would probably take an overpay for me to trade him too. I just wouldn't automatically assume what has worked in DC will work on another team.

I just watched the hype of the Knicks adding a so-called 34 year old professional scorer in Bogey at the trade deadline. He just looked 34 and on his last legs to me. What worked in Detroit did not translate to New York. Some of that was adjusting to a new team. Some of that may have been Thibs basic offense.

But some of that was just not playing for a bottom 2 team in the league. Opponents can coast against those teams for long periods of the game without devoting a tremendous amount of attention or energy towards any one player. Better teams attract better efforts and the playoffs are a whole different animal.

Well. You should rewatch any Washington vs NY game. Deni is always used as primary defender on Brunson or Randle. He almost never got any help on defense. Moreover a lot times Knicks screen to force switch to get Deni off his player as he is better in staying before both Brunson and Randle than any other player on Wizards (except maybe Delon Wright which is long not there)

Is his as good as Dort defending Brunson? Probably not. There're also players better in defending Randle I'm not sure there's one NBA player which can do better than Deni when asked to be primary defender half time on one, and half time on other.

There's nothing casual about saying that Deni guards 1 - 4 It's what he's doing night after night.
Three're attempts to compose stats comparing defenders' versatility and Deni is typically ends top-5 in the league in this aspect.

Speaking about his offense. He was not scoring because he was taking a lot inefficient shots, or because he got some unsustainable sequence of 3PM. His main ability is driving and finishing. And as he is quicker or/and stronger and bigger than almost any defender, if his 3P% is good enough to force defender to stay close, and his left continues improving he is going to be very hard to stop

P.s

Read on Twitter

?t=Y_9wx344eqLvwpXJnW0vjQ&s=19

[JayTWill]

Spoiler:

Versatility is important, defensive rebounds are important, and Deni is still very good "point-of-attack" defender... He literally can stay before guys like Irving or Doncic or Brunson while also able to guard one on one guys like Randle or Ingram. Dort may be great against guards but can he guard PF ?

What's really wrong here is comparison of Dort and Deni as "shooters". Avdija is not shooter and not supposed to be shooter. He is playmaking wing. Actually it's less important for him to shoot this over-average 37+ 3F%, 34% will be ok if he takes pull-ups when it's required.
His main force is driving and finishing. He took 33.6% of his shots closer than 3ft from rim and scored on 73.7% of them. He also drawn 144 shooting fouls including 45 and-1s (comparing to Dort's 63.2% around basket, 73 shooting fouls and only 14 and-1s)
Deni mostly needs shooting to open drive lines for him...

Sometimes I feel like we casually throw around the words this guy can guard 1-4 or 5. As a Knicks fan I saw it constantly with OG after the mid-season trade. Constant posting of shooting percentages against OG. He is one of the best defenders in the league but he does have his limitations. Smaller quick guards can give him trouble at times as do some bigs.

Maxey had one poor shooting performance in January against the OG but he clearly showed that he was too fast for OG to guard in the pick and roll in the playoffs. Deni is a great guy to throw at certain players to switch up looks defensively but I have a hard time believing you want him guarding Brunson or Randle consistently unless you plan on sending some help. He has a range of guys that he can defend better than others.

My biggest question with Deni is how his current skillset would translate to a team trying to advance through the playoffs. Is he good enough to play on-ball while being the focal point of the defense? If not is he good enough off-ball where you would not just prefer a more traditional higher volume 3 and D player?

I think he is in a great situation right now to continue to develop his skills. There is no pressure to win games at the moment. Despite how terrible Poole was to begin the season he did provide a lightning rod to draw the vast majority of the negative attention for the team freeing others from some of the scrutiny and he actually did show improvement as the year went along.

Deni is young and on a great contract while giving the fanbase a little something to be excited about. They can live with the ups and downs of his development right now as they rebuild. It would probably take an overpay for me to trade him too. I just wouldn't automatically assume what has worked in DC will work on another team.

I just watched the hype of the Knicks adding a so-called 34 year old professional scorer in Bogey at the trade deadline. He just looked 34 and on his last legs to me. What worked in Detroit did not translate to New York. Some of that was adjusting to a new team. Some of that may have been Thibs basic offense.

But some of that was just not playing for a bottom 2 team in the league. Opponents can coast against those teams for long periods of the game without devoting a tremendous amount of attention or energy towards any one player. Better teams attract better efforts and the playoffs are a whole different animal.

Well. You should rewatch any Washington vs NY game. Deni is always used as primary defender on Brunson or Randle. He almost never got any help on defense. Moreover a lot times Knicks screen to force switch to get Deni off his player as he is better in staying before both Brunson and Randle than any other player on Wizards (except maybe Delon Wright which is long not there)

Is his as good as Dort defending Brunson? Probably not. There're also players better in defending Randle I'm not sure there's one NBA player which can do better than Deni when asked to be primary defender half time on one, and half time on other.

There's nothing casual about saying that Deni guards 1 - 4 It's what he's doing night after night.
Three're attempts to compose stats comparing defenders' versatility and Deni is typically ends top-5 in the league in this aspect.

Speaking about his offense. He was not scoring because he was taking a lot inefficient shots, or because he got some unsustainable sequence of 3PM. His main ability is driving and finishing. And as he is quicker or/and stronger and bigger than almost any defender, if his 3P% is good enough to force defender to stay close, and his left continues improving he is going to be very hard to stop

P.s

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So your belief is that he could play more on-ball more for a team trying to advance through the playoffs since defenders would be unable to keep him out of the paint? He has shown some of that ability in DC but i'm curious if that would translate to another team with him being more of a focal point of the defense and playing in more intense games than he currently does for the Wizards.

I'm not sure if he is currently at that point but i'm curious to see how his game evolves and if it doesn't what his best role would be on a team trying to contend.

[Kizz Fastfists]

WAS OUT - Avdija
WAS IN - Giddey, 7, higher of 2025 MIA or OKC FRP

WAS gets a kings ransom for Deni - they kick the tires on Giddey, can use 7 on their PGOTF or COTF (As the take Riascher 2 here) and get another swing at a FRP in 2025. IMO they follow this up w/ a Kuzma deal.

This is about 2 FRPs short of a king's ransom. What is the motivation for trading a 23 year old that has already established themselves as a solid NBA player and is on a GREAT contract? They can trade the 29 year old Kuzma without trading their 23 year old building block. Would OKC consider this fair value for JDub?

Take Risacher at #2 to go with Avdija and Coulibaly. Trade Kuzma for whatever pick package you can get and let your rebuild play out. Moving Avdija doesn't speed up the rebuild unless they are getting someone with a higher upside or picks that could lead to producing that higher upside.