NOP/IND/LAL

[Praetor]

Everyone is still taking Trey over Nembhard. A playoff run doesn’t change that.

Never said Nembhard was better. I'm saying it's close. Maybe it's a protected 1st, maybe it's 2 2nds. You're the one acting like Trey Murphy is prime Paul George. Most importantly, it's a trade that makes sense for both teams.

In terms of positional value and for the Pelicans, I don't think they are close and I don't believe moving Trey for Nembhard makes any sense. Long range volume 3PT shooting (26'+ verage 3PA) from an athletic 6'10" wing who also contributes on defense is incredibly valuable to a team building around Zion (or any team). In addition to the depth of attempts, Trey doubled his pull-up 3PA this year. The deep spacing + defense that Trey provides is much more important to the Pels than acquiring a point guard.

Trey's deep spacing (26'+) from the weakside makes teams defend a lot more space, it widens the driving lanes for Zion, and wrecks opposing help principles. Every one of our top lineups has Trey in them and the Pels conservative offense has only scratched the surface of what can be done in Zion/Trey actions.

I have no problem with you thinking Trey is valuable. He is. He's not a bench player. So, this trade thread wants to trade CJ. That leaves you with a 2/3 rotation of Ingram/Herb/Trey. You realize only two of those guys can start, and whoever you don't start is going to be locker room cancer, right? Is the plan to try go get something for Ingram as an expiring?

I think it's just crazy to think you're going to trade CJ and Ingram (~$70 Mil in salary) in the same off-season. You're not going to get a lot for those guys, and peak Zion has a very, very short shelf life. Your team needs to go now, and you're going to be lucky to trade one of those salaries. I'd say there's a Nembhard/Ingram swap possible, but the salary difference is wild. You're going to have a hard time trading Ingram into cap space and getting back a serviceable starting PG. And the Wolves and Thunder are also looking in this same space, which will drive up the asking price. You've also got an aging Center with trash for backups when he gets injured. And before you say it, Herb and Trey are not backup Centers. They're not-ideal backup 4s.

Finally, Nembhard shot 35% during the season and boosted that to 48% during the 17 game sample size of the playoffs. It's not like this was 4 games. it's basically a quarter of a season in terms of games played. So you can stop pretending that Murphy is miles better as a shooter.

TLDR: The Pelicans have a roster construction problem at the wing. and trading CJ does nothing to fix it. Trading Ingram would be ideal, but that's going to be hard and not get much. If you thing Nembhard sucks, that's ok, the Wolves and Thunder are out there and have assets to trade.

[Euphonetiks]

I have no problem with you thinking Trey is valuable. He is. He's not a bench player. So, this trade thread wants to trade CJ. That leaves you with a 2/3 rotation of Ingram/Herb/Trey. You realize only two of those guys can start, and whoever you don't start is going to be locker room cancer, right? Is the plan to try go get something for Ingram as an expiring?

I think it's just crazy to think you're going to trade CJ and Ingram (~$70 Mil in salary) in the same off-season. You're not going to get a lot for those guys, and peak Zion has a very, very short shelf life. Your team needs to go now, and you're going to be lucky to trade one of those salaries. I'd say there's a Nembhard/Ingram swap possible, but the salary difference is wild. You're going to have a hard time trading Ingram into cap space and getting back a serviceable starting PG. And the Wolves and Thunder are also looking in this same space, which will drive up the asking price. You've also got an aging Center with trash for backups when he gets injured. And before you say it, Herb and Trey are not backup Centers. They're not-ideal backup 4s.

Finally, Nembhard shot 35% during the season and boosted that to 48% during the 17 game sample size of the playoffs. It's not like this was 4 games. it's basically a quarter of a season in terms of games played. So you can stop pretending that Murphy is miles better as a shooter.

TLDR: The Pelicans have a roster construction problem at the wing. and trading CJ does nothing to fix it. Trading Ingram would be ideal, but that's going to be hard and not get much. If you thing Nembhard sucks, that's ok, the Wolves and Thunder are out there and have assets to trade.

Having multiple good wings is never a problem. Numerous reports that Pels are trading Ingram to make more opportunity for and to extend Trey. Ingram has suitors because 26 Y/O long 6'8" wings who put up 20+/5+/5+ shooting 49/35/80 in a down year are actually pretty rare. I never said Pels would trade Ingram and CJ in the same offseason, I just said CJ is not a terrible contract.

You are delusional if you are comparing Nembhard as a shooter to Trey. Nembhard is not a shooter regardless of the playoff run. Trey is multiple tiers above Nembhard. Trey has better %'s on more than 2x the volume while taking deeper shots with a higher % of pull-ups. I don't think Nembhard sucks, but I also don't think he is nearly as valuable as Trey.

[Wizop]

That leaves you with a 2/3 rotation of Ingram/Herb/Trey.

There was a time this Pacer fan was interested in Ingram but now that we will be paying Siakam and Haliburton the max we just can't afford Ingram. and while taking Turner would solve the payroll problem, that's not happening.

so if you think Herb or Trey is going to be unhappy coming off the bench, we'd consider whoever you'd rather move. if the price has to be a point guard, it would more likely be TJ than Drew. if you'd take a 2/3, we might do Nesmith for Herb or Sheppard for Trey. a sign and trade for Jalen Smith might work as well.

it's likely any of these deals might have to wait until some cap holds go away and options are exercised or not.

[Whole Truth]

I have no problem with you thinking Trey is valuable. He is. He's not a bench player. So, this trade thread wants to trade CJ. That leaves you with a 2/3 rotation of Ingram/Herb/Trey. You realize only two of those guys can start, and whoever you don't start is going to be locker room cancer, right? Is the plan to try go get something for Ingram as an expiring?

I think it's just crazy to think you're going to trade CJ and Ingram (~$70 Mil in salary) in the same off-season. You're not going to get a lot for those guys, and peak Zion has a very, very short shelf life. Your team needs to go now, and you're going to be lucky to trade one of those salaries. I'd say there's a Nembhard/Ingram swap possible, but the salary difference is wild. You're going to have a hard time trading Ingram into cap space and getting back a serviceable starting PG. And the Wolves and Thunder are also looking in this same space, which will drive up the asking price. You've also got an aging Center with trash for backups when he gets injured. And before you say it, Herb and Trey are not backup Centers. They're not-ideal backup 4s.

Finally, Nembhard shot 35% during the season and boosted that to 48% during the 17 game sample size of the playoffs. It's not like this was 4 games. it's basically a quarter of a season in terms of games played. So you can stop pretending that Murphy is miles better as a shooter.

TLDR: The Pelicans have a roster construction problem at the wing. and trading CJ does nothing to fix it. Trading Ingram would be ideal, but that's going to be hard and not get much. If you thing Nembhard sucks, that's ok, the Wolves and Thunder are out there and have assets to trade.

For NO's, CJ is a SG playing point, there's no floor general. His offensive usage was an overlap issue as well as his combined defense. BI has the versatility to play 2-4. Herb the versatility to defend 1-3. I don't see an issue replacing CJ with Murphy which a salary dump trade would make viable. See the Piston player for cap space thread where they're willing to trade (Ivey, 28m cap space) for (CJ, 25 pick projected teens, with lotto protection)

Jonas - Zion - BI - Herb - Daniels were +20 100 mins, 10 games with no effective bench in one of the toughest stretches on the season. CJ, Murphy, Nance, Jose, Ryan all out. They managed 5 wins in 10 over teams with a 500 or better record, short a bench.

Daniels averaged 12% usage, 5 APG, 30% low volume spacing standing in for CJ. BI was the point man, clear 2nd option & Zion's usage went up to 18 APG with Daniels lower usage over CJ's 25% 16 APG, 42% volume 3pt shooting + the clear defensive upgrade with Herb & Daniels at the point of attack. All that to say is they were +20 with no effective PG playing 4 on 5.

Tell me a Jonas replacement - Zion - Murphy - BI - Herb lineup can't work, I'd argue otherwise. I wouldn't be apposed to starting Daniels either & take the development bumps but I don't get to run things. Zion plays more like a PG than big man so I can almost say BI/Murphy is the SF/PF & Herb is the SG in this configuration offensively. Defensively you are the position you can guard. Herb can guard 1-3 & takes the primary. If BI or Murphy can't handle quicker SG's with the teams combined length, Daniels elite man defense 1-4, is on the bench. He can effectively plug any defensive hole outside of the center position.

Herb's on a 12m/3y value contract that helps offset the extensions to BI & Murphy one will be effectively replacing CJ's 35m in the starting lineup anyway. It can be argued it's not the most ideal fit but it should work, the question is to what degree of success. Only one way to find out.

If NO's can complete a deal like the one mentioned to free cap space. They can potentially sign Claxton & get most of what Allen would provide without the trade cost. Defensive rim runner who doesn't attempt 3's that teams won't bother defend in order to wall off the paint but a upgrade over Jonas at protecting the rim. I don't agree with this as every lineup configuration was better with Jonas offense over Nance who can make a team pay for leaving him open which neither Allen or Claxton can do or attempt to do but it's what Green wants.

[ADMVP]

Never said Nembhard was better. I'm saying it's close. Maybe it's a protected 1st, maybe it's 2 2nds. You're the one acting like Trey Murphy is prime Paul George. Most importantly, it's a trade that makes sense for both teams.

In terms of positional value and for the Pelicans, I don't think they are close and I don't believe moving Trey for Nembhard makes any sense. Long range volume 3PT shooting (26'+ verage 3PA) from an athletic 6'10" wing who also contributes on defense is incredibly valuable to a team building around Zion (or any team). In addition to the depth of attempts, Trey doubled his pull-up 3PA this year. The deep spacing + defense that Trey provides is much more important to the Pels than acquiring a point guard.

Trey's deep spacing (26'+) from the weakside makes teams defend a lot more space, it widens the driving lanes for Zion, and wrecks opposing help principles. Every one of our top lineups has Trey in them and the Pels conservative offense has only scratched the surface of what can be done in Zion/Trey actions.

I have no problem with you thinking Trey is valuable. He is. He's not a bench player. So, this trade thread wants to trade CJ. That leaves you with a 2/3 rotation of Ingram/Herb/Trey. You realize only two of those guys can start, and whoever you don't start is going to be locker room cancer, right? Is the plan to try go get something for Ingram as an expiring?

I think it's just crazy to think you're going to trade CJ and Ingram (~$70 Mil in salary) in the same off-season. You're not going to get a lot for those guys, and peak Zion has a very, very short shelf life. Your team needs to go now, and you're going to be lucky to trade one of those salaries. I'd say there's a Nembhard/Ingram swap possible, but the salary difference is wild. You're going to have a hard time trading Ingram into cap space and getting back a serviceable starting PG. And the Wolves and Thunder are also looking in this same space, which will drive up the asking price. You've also got an aging Center with trash for backups when he gets injured. And before you say it, Herb and Trey are not backup Centers. They're not-ideal backup 4s.

Finally, Nembhard shot 35% during the season and boosted that to 48% during the 17 game sample size of the playoffs. It's not like this was 4 games. it's basically a quarter of a season in terms of games played. So you can stop pretending that Murphy is miles better as a shooter.

TLDR: The Pelicans have a roster construction problem at the wing. and trading CJ does nothing to fix it. Trading Ingram would be ideal, but that's going to be hard and not get much. If you thing Nembhard sucks, that's ok, the Wolves and Thunder are out there and have assets to trade.

Just because RealGM doesn't like CJ or BI doesnt mean NBA execs agree. A Nembhard/Ingram swap is wild, they'd owe.