Pels/Magic

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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#21 » by YayBasketball » Sat Jun 8, 2024 2:49 am

LightTheBeam wrote:Ya I really like this for both teams. Here's an overcomplicated version that probably completes this for all parties (not including draft compensation, add as needed or as Chuck likes to say "a first to your favorite team").

Pelicans out: Ingram, CJ
Pelicans in: Murray, WCJ, Hunter

ATL out: Murray, Hunter
ATL in: Ingram, Cole

Magic out: WCJ, Cole
Magic in: CJ

Pelicans address 1 and 5, open up 3 for Murphy. Murray - Herb - Murphy - Zion - WCJ

ATL breaks up the failed backcourt. Temporarily takes Cole until they can find a new home (more complicated 4th team..). adds BI
Trae - Ingram - Johnson - Sarr - Capela

Magic add a short term high impact scoring guard and likely gets a pick.

Love this framework. Nice work here. This would be ideal for the Pels.

I also really like the OP. Trading CJ for a Center and cap space or TPE makes so much sense. Either to ORL for WCJ or to DET for Stewart. That would also have the trickle effect of creating leverage in the Ingram situation. Now with the extra cap flexibility, they could posture that they have the option to extend Ingram (to a less than maxmax) and keep him or trade him later. Or go ahead and trade him like in the above deal for a PG like Murray or Garland.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#22 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Jun 8, 2024 3:54 am

Jon1798 wrote:22 points, 5.1 assists, and 4.8 rebounds per 36, shooting 9.3 threes a game at 42.9 %!! Arguably the best three point shooter in the league. And y’all think the Pels would give him away?



I missed the news of Steph's retirement. So there is definitely no argument.

Of course its not quite as simple as just giving a guy away either, but one either understands that finances play a part or one doesn't. Hint: Finances always play a part.

Now, I do think if the Pels trade BI, it makes keeping CJ a much more viable option. I don't like a path forward that has both guys. I think that much money allocated to offense only players around Zion makes building a real contender very difficult especially as the wings won't be cheap forever.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 8, 2024 4:04 am

LightTheBeam wrote:Ya I really like this for both teams. Here's an overcomplicated version that probably completes this for all parties (not including draft compensation, add as needed or as Chuck likes to say "a first to your favorite team").

Pelicans out: Ingram, CJ
Pelicans in: Murray, WCJ, Hunter

ATL out: Murray, Hunter
ATL in: Ingram, Cole

Magic out: WCJ, Cole
Magic in: CJ

Pelicans address 1 and 5, open up 3 for Murphy. Murray - Herb - Murphy - Zion - WCJ

ATL breaks up the failed backcourt. Temporarily takes Cole until they can find a new home (more complicated 4th team..). adds BI
Trae - Ingram - Johnson - Sarr - Capela

Magic add a short term high impact scoring guard and likely gets a pick.


What is Ingram extending for in this scenario?
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#24 » by Skybox » Sat Jun 8, 2024 12:04 pm

Spectacular for Pels…ORL says no. Cole & DEN 25 frp or a couple srps for CJ and his salary is closer.

I’d much rather see ORL pony up for Murray, but ATL is probably looking for win-now vets. Ingram looks good for Murray or Garland, imo. WCJ not being thrown in by ORL to help NOLA’s ideal summer plan and salary cap.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#25 » by patman66 » Sat Jun 8, 2024 1:02 pm

Residual-Heat wrote:The Magic already have to find minutes for Black and Howard next year. What are they going to do with two more rookies?

How does this trade look without WCJ and the #21?


Black slides into Fultz min, I don't expect them to ew-sign Harris either. So this trade has the Magic losing Harris, anthony, Fultz and WCJ. Not sure Ingles returns either. I see roster spots open.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#26 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jun 8, 2024 1:35 pm

YayBasketball wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:Ya I really like this for both teams. Here's an overcomplicated version that probably completes this for all parties (not including draft compensation, add as needed or as Chuck likes to say "a first to your favorite team").

Pelicans out: Ingram, CJ
Pelicans in: Murray, WCJ, Hunter

ATL out: Murray, Hunter
ATL in: Ingram, Cole

Magic out: WCJ, Cole
Magic in: CJ

Pelicans address 1 and 5, open up 3 for Murphy. Murray - Herb - Murphy - Zion - WCJ

ATL breaks up the failed backcourt. Temporarily takes Cole until they can find a new home (more complicated 4th team..). adds BI
Trae - Ingram - Johnson - Sarr - Capela

Magic add a short term high impact scoring guard and likely gets a pick.

Love this framework. Nice work here. This would be ideal for the Pels.

I also really like the OP. Trading CJ for a Center and cap space or TPE makes so much sense. Either to ORL for WCJ or to DET for Stewart. That would also have the trickle effect of creating leverage in the Ingram situation. Now with the extra cap flexibility, they could posture that they have the option to extend Ingram (to a less than maxmax) and keep him or trade him later. Or go ahead and trade him like in the above deal for a PG like Murray or Garland.


It's good but not Ideal. First & foremost I can't say with certainty that rotation is better than last years. Jonas (free agency)/BI/CJ out for WCJ/Hunter/Murray in. Maybe upgrades defensively with Hunter not starting in place of Murphy but offensively not even close, as it's a considerable down grade.

WCJ & ZIon would be a weak defensive & rebounding pairing in the front court, potentially worse than Jonas due to Jonas rebounding ability to close possession. NO's just let Jonas 15/10 on 15m production walk because they want to be able to switch defend to the point of playing Nance to a detriment. Green doesn't want to defend in drop coverage. If you watch the defensive metric's of a good Magic team Isaac is at the top of listed centers defensively & Carter is at the bottom, featuring the same defensive roster. As in some cases like the Hawks some centers are dealing with poor perimeter defenders like CJ & getting blame for their lack of rim protection when players are getting straight paths to the basket because of no ball pressure.

IMO trading for CJ & extending him tore down the Pels ceiling, halting their development & capping them out.

Ideally as a Pels fan, I want to prop the ceiling back up. Sarr is my primary target, moving CJ for cap flexibility & defensive fit my 2nd goal.

With Givony saying Atlanta is open to trading down to 4 for Clingan, Amico saying Spurs are very interested in Garland & Cavs having rumored interest in swapping Garland for BI. With the right value attached to each party. NO's helping the Spurs land Garland potentially gives them a path to #1. That to me would be ideal.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#27 » by Ducklett » Sat Jun 8, 2024 6:29 pm

This feels just kick the can down the road enough for the Magic front office to do it. I don't think the version with WCJ would fly because it takes out our starting center and the cap space to replace him.

This trade says we pray that Jett Howard becomes CJ before CJ's contract expires. I am not sure if this is a sure enough thing to blow all of our cap on and I certainly rather something like this over signing Klay to a huge number. It is pretty interesting discussion.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#28 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Jun 8, 2024 6:37 pm

Ducklett wrote:This feels just kick the can down the road enough for the Magic front office to do it. I don't think the version with WCJ would fly because it takes out our starting center and the cap space to replace him.



It doesn't take the cap space. This is whole point of including Anthony in the trade....

Again this might be the wrong deal, but not sure what's happening today with posters just inventing giant hits to their cap space that aren't there lol. They lose a little cap space but still have way more than enough to get a starting caliber center with.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#29 » by AaronB » Sat Jun 8, 2024 7:13 pm

I think that Russell and Monk are both better fits for what improves the MAgic.

Not to mention that they will be cheaper contract-wise and cheaper to obtain.

If the contracts were the same, the cost to obtain was the same, Russell and Monk are still better fits to what the Magic need,
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#30 » by Ducklett » Sun Jun 9, 2024 3:11 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ducklett wrote:This feels just kick the can down the road enough for the Magic front office to do it. I don't think the version with WCJ would fly because it takes out our starting center and the cap space to replace him.



It doesn't take the cap space. This is whole point of including Anthony in the trade....

Again this might be the wrong deal, but not sure what's happening today with posters just inventing giant hits to their cap space that aren't there lol. They lose a little cap space but still have way more than enough to get a starting caliber center with.


Anthony and picks is like 20ish million cap hit, right? I mean if you include WCJ, I think it is a smaller cap hit.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#31 » by pipfan » Sun Jun 9, 2024 8:26 am

I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#32 » by NotACat » Sun Jun 9, 2024 8:44 am

pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I could see them going for this, especially if they can add Lonzo to the deal - I think they would give the Den '25 outright for him. If he gets healthy and returns to form, he'd be a PERFECT fit for the squad.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#33 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2024 11:38 am

NotACat wrote:
pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I could see them going for this, especially if they can add Lonzo to the deal - I think they would give the Den '25 outright for him. If he gets healthy and returns to form, he'd be a PERFECT fit for the squad.

i cant see Orlando risking Lonzo, he cannot stay healthy. And Orlando needs more offense. Caruso is a decent player, but at 30 he is what he is and doesnt provide the gravity Orlando needs at the position.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#34 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 9, 2024 11:59 am

tiderulz wrote:
NotACat wrote:
pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I could see them going for this, especially if they can add Lonzo to the deal - I think they would give the Den '25 outright for him. If he gets healthy and returns to form, he'd be a PERFECT fit for the squad.

i cant see Orlando risking Lonzo, he cannot stay healthy. And Orlando needs more offense. Caruso is a decent player, but at 30 he is what he is and doesnt provide the gravity Orlando needs at the position.


Holding ORL to 85 pts/game is a 10pt loss…and a battered Paolo
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#35 » by pipfan » Sun Jun 9, 2024 5:34 pm

Caruso shot 40% from 3 last year, and is a solid passer. He's not a volume guy, but Franz/Paolo handle most of the initiating with their starting 5.
I would just love to see Suggs/Caruso on D. Ball/AC was magic for the Bulls for half a season.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#36 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jun 9, 2024 6:49 pm

NotACat wrote:
pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I could see them going for this, especially if they can add Lonzo to the deal - I think they would give the Den '25 outright for him. If he gets healthy and returns to form, he'd be a PERFECT fit for the squad.


If Ball's health was a possibility Chicago would be doing the same thing. However, I do like the Caruso fit, didn't realize he was 30. Not a sexy target but should be a productive one.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#37 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:10 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
NotACat wrote:
pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I could see them going for this, especially if they can add Lonzo to the deal - I think they would give the Den '25 outright for him. If he gets healthy and returns to form, he'd be a PERFECT fit for the squad.


If Ball's health was a possibility Chicago would be doing the same thing. However, I do like the Caruso fit, didn't realize he was 30. Not a sexy target but should be a productive one.


Not burying Black for Caruso...pretty sure AB can get his ppg up to 12 with a little more playing time and he can match his defense and be a better facilitator/ballhandler. Caruso is a super sub...would hardly make a change from Gary Harris' impact, other than impact on salary cap...we need an offensive creator, not another defensive specialist who broke 10ppg for the first time at 30.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#38 » by thelead » Sun Jun 9, 2024 10:27 pm

pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

I've been wanting a version of this deal done for almost 2 years now. The Suggs/AC pairing would be suffocating... not to mention Black coming off the bench too.
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#39 » by orlando_joe » Sun Jun 9, 2024 10:47 pm

pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

sure sending white instead of caruso?
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Re: Pels/Magic 

Post#40 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:30 am

orlando_joe wrote:
pipfan wrote:I think Orl should go all in on defense and let Paolo cook

Caruso for #18

Bulls get a pick to take Missi or Ware, and save a bunch of $

Orl has a super-elite defensive backcourt of Suggs/Carsuo and holds opponents to 95 pts/game
Suggs/Anthony
Caruso/Black
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/Howard
WCJ/Wagner

Would LOVE Chi to get the Den '25 pick as well, maybe Orl gets the Port pick?

sure sending white instead of caruso?


White would be a near-perfect fit next to Suggs...but I doubt they move him. Caruso changes very little from Harris...same guy, maybe maybe 20% better

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