Complete the Mavs Challenge

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hugepatsfan
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#21 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I know RealGM is a hot take factory, but this series isn't even over yet. Also, I've never really liked the idea of constructing a roster to get past a Finals opponent. Just getting to the Finals is a daunting task and you never really know who you'll face when you get there. The Celtics are a really good team, but they're not the 73-win Warriors adding Durant.


I don’t think this applies to specifically beating one team. They have had a great run and no the series isn’t over, but they also have some glaring deficiencies too.

The third best scorer in their playoff rotation is career 13 ppg PJ Washington. Their 4th scorer in the playoff rotation is Jones Jr who set a new career high with 8.6 ppg this year. Their other key players are centers without much offensive skill besides spoon fed lobs (Lively has some potential but not much else to his game as of now).

It’s hardly overrating to a specific matchup or series to suggest they need a little more scoring punch. And in regards to the Celtics… they won 64 games, best offensive rating ever, 4th best point differential of all time, 14-2 in playoffs so far with an all time point differential there, and they’re doing this with pretty much the whole roster all sacrificing from their past production vs being led by a crazy unsustainable stretch or fluke year. Teams up 2-0 are something like 31-5, to illustrate the difficulty of overcoming that. It’s not over, but I find it hard to make a case that this Mavs team is going to be one of those teams to do it against this BOS team. Talent gap is just pretty wide.

But that’s not the point of this thread specifically. Even if DAL does come back and win, it’s still obvious they should be looking at this type of move to add another piece IMO.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#22 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:28 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I know RealGM is a hot take factory, but this series isn't even over yet. Also, I've never really liked the idea of constructing a roster to get past a Finals opponent. Just getting to the Finals is a daunting task and you never really know who you'll face when you get there. The Celtics are a really good team, but they're not the 73-win Warriors adding Durant.


I don’t think this applies to specifically beating one team. They have had a great run and no the series isn’t over, but they also have some glaring deficiencies too.

The third best scorer in their playoff rotation is career 13 ppg PJ Washington. Their 4th scorer in the playoff rotation is Jones Jr who set a new career high with 8.6 ppg this year. Their other key players are centers without much offensive skill besides spoon fed lobs (Lively has some potential but not much else to his game as of now).

It’s hardly overrating to a specific matchup or series to suggest they need a little more scoring punch. And in regards to the Celtics… they won 64 games, best offensive rating ever, 4th best point differential of all time, 14-2 in playoffs so far with an all time point differential there, and they’re doing this with pretty much the whole roster all sacrificing from their past production vs being led by a crazy unsustainable stretch or fluke year. Teams up 2-0 are something like 31-5, to illustrate the difficulty of overcoming that. It’s not over, but I find it hard to make a case that this Mavs team is going to be one of those teams to do it against this BOS team. Talent gap is just pretty wide.

But that’s not the point of this thread specifically. Even if DAL does come back and win, it’s still obvious they should be looking at this type of move to add another piece IMO.


Lively is only a rookie. I'd say they can hope for some internal growth. THJ will be on an expiring contract who they can swap for another role player. Ring chasers will start looking at them now. Kyrie and Luka provide a ton of offense. They beat some really good teams to get here.

The Celtics road here went through the Heat without Butler, the Cavs without Allen and Mitchell, and the Pacers who lost Haliburton. Porzingis is going to be an injury risk for his entire year. Horford's not getting any younger. White has yet to extend. I think the Celtics have this series, but next season is a whole new season.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#23 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:33 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I know RealGM is a hot take factory, but this series isn't even over yet. Also, I've never really liked the idea of constructing a roster to get past a Finals opponent. Just getting to the Finals is a daunting task and you never really know who you'll face when you get there. The Celtics are a really good team, but they're not the 73-win Warriors adding Durant.


I don’t think this applies to specifically beating one team. They have had a great run and no the series isn’t over, but they also have some glaring deficiencies too.

The third best scorer in their playoff rotation is career 13 ppg PJ Washington. Their 4th scorer in the playoff rotation is Jones Jr who set a new career high with 8.6 ppg this year. Their other key players are centers without much offensive skill besides spoon fed lobs (Lively has some potential but not much else to his game as of now).

It’s hardly overrating to a specific matchup or series to suggest they need a little more scoring punch. And in regards to the Celtics… they won 64 games, best offensive rating ever, 4th best point differential of all time, 14-2 in playoffs so far with an all time point differential there, and they’re doing this with pretty much the whole roster all sacrificing from their past production vs being led by a crazy unsustainable stretch or fluke year. Teams up 2-0 are something like 31-5, to illustrate the difficulty of overcoming that. It’s not over, but I find it hard to make a case that this Mavs team is going to be one of those teams to do it against this BOS team. Talent gap is just pretty wide.

But that’s not the point of this thread specifically. Even if DAL does come back and win, it’s still obvious they should be looking at this type of move to add another piece IMO.


Lively is only a rookie. I'd say they can hope for some internal growth. THJ will be on an expiring contract who they can swap for another role player. Ring chasers will start looking at them now. Kyrie and Luka provide a ton of offense. They beat some really good teams to get here.

The Celtics road here went through the Heat without Butler, the Cavs without Allen and Mitchell, and the Pacers who lost Haliburton. Porzingis is going to be an injury risk for his entire year. Horford's not getting any younger. White has yet to extend. I think the Celtics have this series, but next season is a whole new season.


I mean, your bolded sentence here is pretty much the entire premise of my thread. You’re saying the same thing I am here, just taking a weird detour to make it sound like I’m saying they need to do one thing to beat Boston specifically or it’s a guarantee that Boston makes the finals again next year.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#24 » by Astaluego » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:48 pm

Go with everything...
Mavs have historically been aggressive in trading.

Trade 1

J.Grant to the MAVS..

Maxi+Dallas 31 to BLAZERS

THJ+34 to PISTONS.

Trade 2..
J.Green+Dallas 25(unprotected)/Raptors SRP to BULLS

Caruso to MAVS...

Sending Powell to someone's space, for an SRP it gives us the space, for DJJ...

I don't know if those trades are real, but in a vacuum, transform...
Maxi/THJ(Exp)/Green/Powell+2 FRP(unprotected) + SRP(potentially good(Raptors)and if necessary O-Max on Grant/Caruso and bringing back DJJ seems possible...

Gafford/Lively
PJ/DJJ
Grant/Caruso
KI/Exum
Luka/Hardy...

This, in my opinion, is a strong contender, capable of taking on anyone.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#25 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:57 pm

Astaluego wrote:Go with everything...
Mavs have historically been aggressive in trading.

Trade 1

J.Grant to the MAVS..

Maxi+Dallas 31 to BLAZERS

THJ+34 to PISTONS.

Trade 2..
J.Green+Dallas 25(unprotected)/Raptors SRP to BULLS

Caruso to MAVS...

Sending Powell to someone's space, for an SRP it gives us the space, for DJJ...

I don't know if those trades are real, but in a vacuum, transform...
Maxi/THJ(Exp)/Green/Powell+2 FRP(unprotected) + SRP(potentially good(Raptors)and if necessary O-Max on Grant/Caruso and bringing back DJJ seems possible...

Gafford/Lively
PJ/DJJ
Grant/Caruso
KI/Exum
Luka/Hardy...

This, in my opinion, is a strong contender, capable of taking on anyone.


So for "out" side you have... THJ/Kleber/Green/Powell. They make $43.85M. For in, you have Grant and Caruso who make $39.68M. So $4.17M savings, but you're also opening up 2 roster spots that have to be filled. So the net savings is very inconsequential.

What contract are you projecting for DJJ? Most have targeted the $12.86M non tax payers MLE as the high end of his range, which I believe hard caps a team at the 1st apron. If you drop to the $5.184M taxpayers exception then hard cap is at the 2nd apron. Spotrac has DAL with $3.0M below the second apron as is (13 players signed). Your deal sheds a bit of money and they can probably maneuver around to free up the tax payers MLE to keep DJJ (probably costs Exum or letting him go and brining back for minimum). But do you expect him to sign for that?

That being said, these deals are realistic and worth doing for DAL even if it does cost them DJJ.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#26 » by Astaluego » Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:16 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Astaluego wrote:Go with everything...
Mavs have historically been aggressive in trading.

Trade 1

J.Grant to the MAVS..

Maxi+Dallas 31 to BLAZERS

THJ+34 to PISTONS.

Trade 2..
J.Green+Dallas 25(unprotected)/Raptors SRP to BULLS

Caruso to MAVS...

Sending Powell to someone's space, for an SRP it gives us the space, for DJJ...

I don't know if those trades are real, but in a vacuum, transform...
Maxi/THJ(Exp)/Green/Powell+2 FRP(unprotected) + SRP(potentially good(Raptors)and if necessary O-Max on Grant/Caruso and bringing back DJJ seems possible...

Gafford/Lively
PJ/DJJ
Grant/Caruso
KI/Exum
Luka/Hardy...

This, in my opinion, is a strong contender, capable of taking on anyone.


So for "out" side you have... THJ/Kleber/Green/Powell. They make $43.85M. For in, you have Grant and Caruso who make $39.68M. So $4.17M savings, but you're also opening up 2 roster spots that have to be filled. So the net savings is very inconsequential.

What contract are you projecting for DJJ? Most have targeted the $12.86M non tax payers MLE as the high end of his range, which I believe hard caps a team at the 1st apron. If you drop to the $5.184M taxpayers exception then hard cap is at the 2nd apron. Spotrac has DAL with $3.0M below the second apron as is (13 players signed). Your deal sheds a bit of money and they can probably maneuver around to free up the tax payers MLE to keep DJJ (probably costs Exum or letting him go and brining back for minimum). But do you expect him to sign for that?

That being said, these deals are realistic and worth doing for DAL even if it does cost them DJJ.

Ideally I would like to keep Exum, but if his departure allows us to keep DJJ, go ahead, plus I think I could return an SRP? .. With those 10 players + O-Max (if we keep him) and our young Lawson/Greg Brown/Fudge... I would feel quite happy
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#27 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:19 pm

I like the idea of getting Grant and Caruso, I think that largely fixes what problems Dallas has and if they can't retain DJJ they have the personnel to be okay. TBH I know that PJ Washington has been good for them, but it might be wise to capitalize on his good play by adding assets for an upgrade. I don't have anyone specific in mind, it is just a thought.
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Re: Complete the Mavs Challenge 

Post#28 » by Astaluego » Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:51 pm

babyjax13 wrote:I like the idea of getting Grant and Caruso, I think that largely fixes what problems Dallas has and if they can't retain DJJ they have the personnel to be okay. TBH I know that PJ Washington has been good for them, but it might be wise to capitalize on his good play by adding assets for an upgrade. I don't have anyone specific in mind, it is just a thought.

about PJ other than being a clear improvement, I would like to keep him, according to reports the boy apparently wanted to play for the Mavs since he was a teenager, it was one of his dreams and the team he supported, I think it is important to have guys like that in the team
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