3 Way: ATL/MIN/SAS

[Ball4life32]

Everytime a Minnesota fan suggests trading Karl-Anthony Towns for Dejounte Murray, I experience stroke-like symptoms. Atlanta would have to add a solid amount, from my perspective.

I get also get this reaction from Trae Young to MIN posts.

This Wolves’ success comes from its defensive identity, where every player works hard to help their brother. Gobert’s interest in coming to MIN may have been to change the narrative, by being on a team with perimeter and point of attack defenders. On top of this, the Wolves shouldn’t be looking to add a player that takes the ball out of Ant’s hands, and uses up his shot attempts.

I get that reaction from KAT to Atlanta posts. I’m confused why people think a consistent top 10 offense/bottom 10 defense would think more offense is the solution. Gobert is so much better fit but Minnesota won’t/shouldn't deal him.

[nate33]

There's no way KAT on a $55M a year contract is worth anywhere near this much. I'm not convinced he will get back much more than cap relief.

I agree to an extent, he's much closer to relief than actual on court value. Likely more towards a couple of 1st rounders.

People putting all star value for him are not realizing his market.

You mean, the guy that literally was an All Star?

Yes.

I'm aware he was an All-Star. KAT is a good NBA player. But he is also paid $55M in a year. Trust this long time Wizards fan who watched Bradley Beal for 10 years. At some point, even an All-Star player can be too expensive on a max contract - so expensive that they their trade value is marginal.

I think KAT still has positive trade value. Surely Minnesota can get something in return for him. I just don't think that value is anywhere near the #1 overall pick (even in a weak draft) plus an extremely promising young player who has All-Star potential himself.

[Slim Charless]

There's no way KAT on a $55M a year contract is worth anywhere near this much. I'm not convinced he will get back much more than cap relief.

I agree to an extent, he's much closer to relief than actual on court value. Likely more towards a couple of 1st rounders.

People putting all star value for him are not realizing his market.

You mean, the guy that literally was an All Star?

KAT is a former all pro too I thought.

I don't think asking for a talented, but completely unproven Jalen Johnson and the top pick in a weak draft is asking alot.

In fact, when I made this thread I assumed that the Wolves fans would be ones rejecting it. As far as the Hawks are concerned:

Trae=Vassel+all picks back makes sense.
KAT= Talented player, draft pick, cap filler(Capela)

That seems to make sense.

For your Wolves, you don't have to take Sarr also it could be anyone. I just assumed he'd be the pick to play next to and then take over for Rudy.

[Slim Charless]

There's no way KAT on a $55M a year contract is worth anywhere near this much. I'm not convinced he will get back much more than cap relief.

It's a weak draft. You don't think KAT is worth that pick and am unknown, albeit talented Johnson? KAT has made the all star game numerous times and I think even an all pro. He's pretty much a guaranteed 22/10 with great range.....and you think he returns cap relief......

That seems.....off. To me, by alot.

Im a big Kat fan but as a Hawk fan im sure as heck not giving up #1 and Johnson for KAT. I would much more easily give up Murray + for Kat than those 2 pieces.

Johnson is a great prospect. Prospect is the key word. He hasn't done anything remotely close to what KAT has accomplished. It depends on what your team wants. If it's a tear down then keep him, but then you need to trade for your picks back.

My OP gives you the chance to win now with a KAT/DJM/Vassell combo. While being able to get your picks back. Win-win IMO

[tbhawksfan1]

I agree to an extent, he's much closer to relief than actual on court value. Likely more towards a couple of 1st rounders.

People putting all star value for him are not realizing his market.

You mean, the guy that literally was an All Star?

KAT is a former all pro too I thought.

I don't think asking for a talented, but completely unproven Jalen Johnson and the top pick in a weak draft is asking alot.

In fact, when I made this thread I assumed that the Wolves fans would be ones rejecting it. As far as the Hawks are concerned:

Trae=Vassel+all picks back makes sense.
KAT= Talented player, draft pick, cap filler(Capela)

That seems to make sense.

For your Wolves, you don't have to take Sarr also it could be anyone. I just assumed he'd be the pick to play next to and then take over for Rudy.

Classic RealGM when your trade proposal completely flames out but you keep pushing it senario

[MNRunLeft]

Yes.

I'm aware he was an All-Star. KAT is a good NBA player. But he is also paid $55M in a year. Trust this long time Wizards fan who watched Bradley Beal for 10 years. At some point, even an All-Star player can be too expensive on a max contract - so expensive that they their trade value is marginal.

I think KAT still has positive trade value. Surely Minnesota can get something in return for him. I just don't think that value is anywhere near the #1 overall pick (even in a weak draft) plus an extremely promising young player who has All-Star potential himself.

Beal was no longer playing at an all star level in Washington when he was traded so unless you are projecting a drop off in production from Towns going forward I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison. If Towns continues to produce at his current levels the contract will be expensive but not out of line as by the time he reaches the latter years or the deal there will be plenty of contracts that dwarf his annual number.

There is more demand for a stretch big like towns than a combo guard like Beal especially after Beal started to fall off as a creator of his own shot. Both have defensive short comings but neither is getting played off the floor due to them and as we saw in the Denver series KATs size is particularly valuable in some matchups.

[nate33]

Yes.

I'm aware he was an All-Star. KAT is a good NBA player. But he is also paid $55M in a year. Trust this long time Wizards fan who watched Bradley Beal for 10 years. At some point, even an All-Star player can be too expensive on a max contract - so expensive that they their trade value is marginal.

I think KAT still has positive trade value. Surely Minnesota can get something in return for him. I just don't think that value is anywhere near the #1 overall pick (even in a weak draft) plus an extremely promising young player who has All-Star potential himself.

Beal was no longer playing at an all star level in Washington when he was traded so unless you are projecting a drop off in production from Towns going forward I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison. If Towns continues to produce at his current levels the contract will be expensive but not out of line as by the time he reaches the latter years or the deal there will be plenty of contracts that dwarf his annual number.

There is more demand for a stretch big like towns than a combo guard like Beal especially after Beal started to fall off as a creator of his own shot. Both have defensive short comings but neither is getting played off the floor due to them and as we saw in the Denver series KATs size is particularly valuable in some matchups.

I don't know what to tell you. You're not getting the #1 pick in the draft plus a recent draft pick who broke out to average 16, 9 and 4 just after his 22nd birthday. Not for a second-tier star who makes $55M a year.

Nobody considers KAT an MVP candidate or All-NBA first or second team type of player. He is not a top 12 player, but more like a top 20-25ish guy. I think it's fair to say that KAT isn't good enough to be the best guy on a good team. If he is your best guy, you aren't getting out of the first round. So he needs to be the second-best guy. But it's virtually impossible to assemble a good team if you are paying two guys supermax money. This is the reason he is on the market in the first place!

So how much talent are teams willing to trade to acquire a guy around whom you cannot build a sustainably winning team?

[dms269]

It's a weak draft. You don't think KAT is worth that pick and am unknown, albeit talented Johnson? KAT has made the all star game numerous times and I think even an all pro. He's pretty much a guaranteed 22/10 with great range.....and you think he returns cap relief......

That seems.....off. To me, by alot.

Im a big Kat fan but as a Hawk fan im sure as heck not giving up #1 and Johnson for KAT. I would much more easily give up Murray + for Kat than those 2 pieces.

Johnson is a great prospect. Prospect is the key word. He hasn't done anything remotely close to what KAT has accomplished. It depends on what your team wants. If it's a tear down then keep him, but then you need to trade for your picks back.

My OP gives you the chance to win now with a KAT/DJM/Vassell combo. While being able to get your picks back. Win-win IMO

If Atlanta is going to trade for their picks back, then they are likely going to try and tank. To then turn around and trade your two young pieces (#1 and JJ) is counter productive to trading for your picks back.

[shrink]

People putting all star value for him are not realizing his market.

You mean, the guy that literally was an All Star?

Yes.

I'm aware he was an All-Star. KAT is a good NBA player. But he is also paid $55M in a year. Trust this long time Wizards fan who watched Bradley Beal for 10 years. At some point, even an All-Star player can be too expensive on a max contract - so expensive that they their trade value is marginal.

I think KAT still has positive trade value. Surely Minnesota can get something in return for him. I just don't think that value is anywhere near the #1 overall pick (even in a weak draft) plus an extremely promising young player who has All-Star potential himself.

I appreciate the response Nate. My point was that we are just message board posters and so much of our valuations are based on nothing but collections of opinions. A player making an All Star team though is discrete, and regardless of whether we put All Star value as high or low, the only real thing we can say that the value an All Star gets in trade is his All Star value. Maybe that’s just semantics.

The bigger question that stems from your post and my last paragraph is how much value expensive stars are worth. For over a decade I (and the majority of the Trade Board) would rattle on about how expensive a falling star’s contract was, how he was one of the worst contracts in the league, and how he was untradeable. But then reality strikes and we repeatedly see each of these untradeable guys traded. We see time and again these “worst contracts in the league” get traded for positive value. Then I’m forced to reconcile the difference between my predictions and real life events, and forced to adjust my position.

If I had to guess at the causes, I would point out that teams without any All Stars don’t win, and they usually struggle to sell tickets. If a team does those two things for any length of time, their GM is out of a job, and that may be the reason they trade for All Stars regardless of salary. All Stars often have the highest ceilings as well, and good teams trying to be even better may squint and see that adding the All Star, at his best, could put them over the top.

Finally, the other reason that I think All Stars have higher trade value than we predict is that we underestimate just how much cheaper max deals are, than a totally free market would produce. It’s easy to see Jokic provides a lot more on-court and off-court value to the Nuggets franchise than his is $51.4 mil deal pays him, but I imagine this is true, to a lesser degree, for any All Star. These 30-35 players make or break franchises, and the market for the more interchangeable lesser players would grow far cheaper without those CBA restrictions on max deals.