Still think it might be King Kuzma

[Texas Chuck]

"ultimate professional" = give us more than he's worth, he's a great guy

I mean I asked Detroit to give nothing.....

But yeah some players provide value outside of their play on the court. Didn't realize that was remotely controversial.

[LightTheBeam]

Looking at the market I've accepted kuzma will be a King. I just hope he buys in and plays defense, we've seen him be decent on that end when he tries.

It's not pretty and certainly not my first choice but I guess it is what it is.

Next up huerter/Sasha for Bruce Brown. Resign Monk. Kings country let's ride lol

[OGSactownballer]

How much value do you see Kuzma having? I don’t love Kuzma but would probably do this trade as long as 26 stays part of it. I might also give you Vezenkov to add to it.

I think he is worth one good first round pick in the teens (the low teens in this draft) or two first round picks in the 20's. People like to hate on Kuzma because of his so-so efficiency, but that's because he is the #1 priority of opposing defenses on a bad Wizards team. Kuzma is still a very versatile player who can do a lot of things pretty well. He can guard 2 through 5. He can be a secondary playmaker. He shoots 41% from corner 3's. He can create a bailout shot at the end of the clock. He'll rebound. He is the kind of player who helps in the playoffs because he can't be schemed off the floor like short guys, one-dimensional guys, or non-shooters.

I think a lot of these are “sometimes” or “occasionally”. If he could guard 2-5 with any talent and consistency, he’d be one of the best players in the league. Right? He’s a guy that can, most nights, pull something out of his hat for a stretch, but then he tends to get comfortable and tries to overdo it. He won’t pass guys open, but he’ll make the smart next swing pass into an assist opportunity. Etc. I agree, he’s a fine player to have for most teams, but he probably maxes out as your 4th or 5th best guy? If he’s more than that, I think your team is in trouble?

And in 3 years, as his contract declines, he will cost barely more than MLE money.

With max cap rises, the MLE could be $15.56m (depending on where it lands exactly this year) in the last year of Kuzma’s deal. He’s scheduled to make $19.43m, but only if he stays with the Wizards. If he’s traded elsewhere, his cap number could be as high as $25.35m with his trade kicker and bonus possibilities. Even if he doesn’t hit any bonuses, he’s still at $22.35m. I wouldn’t call him in the neighborhood of MLE, unless he stays with Washington, and they remain terrible, it would be about 25% more than the projected MLE at that point. But that can’t be a trade value selling point. It can only be a “Washington could keep him…” point.

So the thing here is that I wouldn’t see Kuzma as more than the fourth best guy in the Sac starting lineup (flipping between him and Ellis on any given night along with Monk jumping up as sixth man or starter at the 2) anyway.

Fox/Sabonis
Murray
Kuzma/Monk/Ellis

Is exactly how and what the order should be.

The difference is that he provides true PF size and length and much more consistent offense at a more efficient rate than Barnes thus improving that starting lineup overall.

In turn as was said the Wiz get off the e extra years of salary and open up their own cap more while trying to rebuild. They become a team that can absorb or later sign outright the pieces they need as youth develops.

Detroit is at a point where they have to go or get off the pot. They have been wallowing and stacking young assets for a while. Those young guys need that vet presence for a couple of years to give them that sense of pride in professionalism that will help them to take that step. And the idea that they should still be tanking in an Eastern conference that is getting very wide open is not a good one. They should be competing at this point to get to play in/lower playoff level. Not I. A continuing perpetual tank for draft picks that they aren’t properly developing. Barnes is exactly the kind of piece that fits for that purpose. He doesn’t cost a lot (they would still have cap to get a second vet player) and he is gone in two years at just the right time to give some cap relief.

I personally feel that it is a very fair and even trade all around but I can see sending a second or two from Sac to make it work for those that think the value is off. Not the POR second because that’s too potentially in the top seven of the round. But Sac seconds. Detroit can have them both or each team can get one. But Kuzma is ultimately not the value to pull a late lotto first directly because he is what he is and there is some potential head baggage that comes with him as well (can he back down to being a role playing starter again without a LeBron to corral him?).

[pillwenney]

For Detroit, it's good. Barnes is a good acquisition for pure cap space. I'm not going to get overly excited about it though: we are not getting additional assets, merely getting a neutral asset that will help us evaluate Cade

For SAC, I wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. Is Kuzma an upgrade on Barnes? Maybe? He's younger for sure, but I think I'd prefer Barnes for the role available (5th starter, decent D). Maybe it's just me and my opinion of Kuzma is too low.

I think there's a very real chance Huerter will be gone, and he therefore wouldn't be a fifth starter (probably wouldn't be anyway, but you get the idea). The other key thing is him filling a creation void if we lose Monk.


As for the deal, I'd honestly probably acquiesce and lose #26 if Washington adds a future 2nd or something. Kuzma isn't the long term solution for what this team really needs, but until that materializes, I do like the idea of adding a short term solution that doesn't encumber future assets.

[ejftw]

I mean, #26 is pretty inconsequential if you ask me as Washington generates a huge TPE (or does this deal have them operate as under the cap?), which they can easily use to absorb a contract and snag another late pick.

[bpcox05]

I might do it if the Wizards aren't throwing in their #26, but I would not do the trade as is. If the Wizards can't do better than this with Kuzma, they'll keep him for now and shop him at the Deadline.

How much value do you see Kuzma having? I don’t love Kuzma but would probably do this trade as long as 26 stays part of it. I might also give you Vezenkov to add to it.

I think he is worth one good first round pick in the teens (the low teens in this draft) or two first round picks in the 20's. People like to hate on Kuzma because of his so-so efficiency, but that's because he is the #1 priority of opposing defenses on a bad Wizards team. Kuzma is still a very versatile player who can do a lot of things pretty well. He can guard 2 through 5. He can be a secondary playmaker. He shoots 41% from corner 3's. He can create a bailout shot at the end of the clock. He'll rebound. He is the kind of player who helps in the playoffs because he can't be schemed off the floor like short guys, one-dimensional guys, or non-shooters.

And in 3 years, as his contract declines, he will cost barely more than MLE money.

Not really understanding this part…he’s basically been at a 54% TS% every season of his career regardless of role.

[nate33]

How much value do you see Kuzma having? I don’t love Kuzma but would probably do this trade as long as 26 stays part of it. I might also give you Vezenkov to add to it.

I think he is worth one good first round pick in the teens (the low teens in this draft) or two first round picks in the 20's. People like to hate on Kuzma because of his so-so efficiency, but that's because he is the #1 priority of opposing defenses on a bad Wizards team. Kuzma is still a very versatile player who can do a lot of things pretty well. He can guard 2 through 5. He can be a secondary playmaker. He shoots 41% from corner 3's. He can create a bailout shot at the end of the clock. He'll rebound. He is the kind of player who helps in the playoffs because he can't be schemed off the floor like short guys, one-dimensional guys, or non-shooters.

And in 3 years, as his contract declines, he will cost barely more than MLE money.

Not really understanding this part…he’s basically been at a 54% TS% every season of his career regardless of role.

Yes. He really was inefficient 4 years ago. But he has gotten better and better since then, taking on more and more usage with no loss in efficiency. Posting a .547 TS% with a 30% usage is much harder than doing so with a 22% usage. I think now, if his usage were to drop back to 20-24% range he had back in his days as a 3rd/4th option, his TS% would be MUCH higher.

[penbeast0]

I think he is worth one good first round pick in the teens (the low teens in this draft) or two first round picks in the 20's. People like to hate on Kuzma because of his so-so efficiency, but that's because he is the #1 priority of opposing defenses on a bad Wizards team. Kuzma is still a very versatile player who can do a lot of things pretty well. He can guard 2 through 5. He can be a secondary playmaker. He shoots 41% from corner 3's. He can create a bailout shot at the end of the clock. He'll rebound. He is the kind of player who helps in the playoffs because he can't be schemed off the floor like short guys, one-dimensional guys, or non-shooters.

And in 3 years, as his contract declines, he will cost barely more than MLE money.

Not really understanding this part…he’s basically been at a 54% TS% every season of his career regardless of role.

The theory is that Kuzma has been improving his shooting but it isn't showing in his league relative TS% because he's been dealing with 1st option defense in Washington. If you look at his shots and exclude the early 3's from the top of the key and the bail out shots late in the clock, presumably his TS% goes up quite a bit as he is very efficient with the standard shots of the 3 and D player like the corner 3.

Do I buy it? Shrug. It would require him thinking like a 3rd/4th option type instead of thinking like a 1st option player and it there's anything that shows in his interviews, it's his strong belief in himself like a Jamal Crawford or Lou Williams.

If he accepts a 3rd/4th option role and puts more energy into defense and less into being the main man, presumably he can be a very good one. If he doesn't change his mindset, he's an instant offense bench guy who has proved he's a 20 ppg+ scorer on near league average efficiency that can create for himself or others in a primary role. Either way he's a player with some positive value.

[Laimbeer]

"ultimate professional" = give us more than he's worth, he's a great guy

I mean I asked Detroit to give nothing.....

But yeah some players provide value outside of their play on the court. Didn't realize that was remotely controversial.

Detroit is giving up 18M (2/37) in pure cap space for a pretty meh player - and it's in demand. Players can provide value beyond the court but it's a pretty minor consideration.

[Texas Chuck]

"ultimate professional" = give us more than he's worth, he's a great guy

I mean I asked Detroit to give nothing.....

But yeah some players provide value outside of their play on the court. Didn't realize that was remotely controversial.

Detroit is giving up 18M (2/37) in pure cap space for a pretty meh player - and it's in demand. Players can provide value beyond the court but it's a pretty minor consideration.

Again, if Detroit can do better with their cap space they should. I post this in a bunch of threads. This is but one idea. I don't know for sure what free agents will consider Detroit and at what prices. I don't know which teams will be giving assets to dump contracts and at what prices.

Absolutely agree if they can sign better players to better value contracts, do that. Absolutely agree if they can get good prices on salary dumps they should do that.

I think having a player like Barnes(doesn't have to be him) who is a real professional, example, leader, high character guy, that would be really helpful on a terrible team trying to get un-terrible and instill good habits in the guys they hope to be part of their future. But if you can find those skills in a better player, of course.

[hugepatsfan]

I might do it if the Wizards aren't throwing in their #26, but I would not do the trade as is. If the Wizards can't do better than this with Kuzma, they'll keep him for now and shop him at the Deadline.

How much value do you see Kuzma having? I don’t love Kuzma but would probably do this trade as long as 26 stays part of it. I might also give you Vezenkov to add to it.

I think he is worth one good first round pick in the teens (the low teens in this draft) or two first round picks in the 20's. People like to hate on Kuzma because of his so-so efficiency, but that's because he is the #1 priority of opposing defenses on a bad Wizards team. Kuzma is still a very versatile player who can do a lot of things pretty well. He can guard 2 through 5. He can be a secondary playmaker. He shoots 41% from corner 3's. He can create a bailout shot at the end of the clock. He'll rebound. He is the kind of player who helps in the playoffs because he can't be schemed off the floor like short guys, one-dimensional guys, or non-shooters.

And in 3 years, as his contract declines, he will cost barely more than MLE money.

Do you have a comparable for Kuzma getting that kind of value? DAL got PJ and Gafford for 1 1st each. Celtics got Derrick White for one pick (in 20s) and a swap. Josh Hart got traded to NY for one 1st. Brogdon got traded to BOS for 1st (albeit with an undeveloped Aaron Nesmith as well as a rookie deal 1st rounder). Aaron Gordon was traded for a single 1st rounder.

Just going through the list, I fail to see an argument that Kuzma nets that second first rounder one one noticeably higher than what those guys returned.

[patman66]

Simple deal:

Kings trade: Barnes/#13
Kings get: Kuzma/#26

Wizards trade: Kuzma/#26
Wizards get: #13, top 55 2nd

Pistons trade: top 55 2nd
Pistons get: Barnes

Pistons use some of their cap space to bring in a quality veteran and ultimate professional in Harry Barnes. 2 year commitment feels perfect in terms of length for a player like this..

Wizards get a lottery pick for Kuzma and take back no unwanted salary. They could keep Barnes if they want, but I believe there are uses for their spending power that make more sense for them.

Kings upgrade their forward spots, still able to add a young player in the draft or potentially flip that pick for something else.

I might do it if the Wizards aren't throwing in their #26, but I would not do the trade as is. If the Wizards can't do better than this with Kuzma, they'll keep him for now and shop him at the Deadline.

I think that is a great return for Kuzma. Hell just run Bagley out there, for that 23mill TPE might have some value

[jayjaysee]

Just a random note..

I’d like for Dallas to end up with Barnes and Huerter in a Kuzma to Sac trade. They slot in so nicely in the Green/Maxi/THJ minutes. And probably wouldn’t cost too much to push Dallas in, just the amount to dump salary? Maybe Maxi or Green end up in Sac, either seem like decent fits on the expensive side?

[OxAndFox]

Just a random note..

I’d like for Dallas to end up with Barnes and Huerter in a Kuzma to Sac trade. They slot in so nicely in the Green/Maxi/THJ minutes. And probably wouldn’t cost too much to push Dallas in, just the amount to dump salary? Maybe Maxi or Green end up in Sac, either seem like decent fits on the expensive side?

I have this feeling that THJ may just end up in Sacramento as a Monk replacement if he leaves. As a bench scorer and they can see what is happening around the deadline to offload him along with any other expiring contracts that are there.
How that shakes out in your thoughts I'm not too sure, but there would certainly be a decent proposal there.