DAL-CHI-DET-WAS (Caruso + Grimes / Omax / Kispert)

[Texas Chuck]

Is there something wrong with Prosper? He doesn’t play. Why again do the Pistons want him?

He’s a rookie on the 2nd best team in the NBA? Nobody is confusing him for what Dereck Lively is doing or what Kawhi did as a rookie. But what a crazy question. He’s fine, he’s still learning the NBA game, it’s very common for rookies.

Not a crazy question. Just looking at his stats. Not in playoff rotation. Did he show any improvement? Anything encouraging a non-Dallas fan should be aware of?

He didn't play enough on the big club for anyone to tell you anything. He was good in teh G league but that should mean nothing.

He's a big body wing with really good athleticism and a defensive reputation. The biggest question for him to answer is can he shoot well enough to stay on the court.

If he was on Detroit or another team playing for nothing, he probably plays half the game this year and there is more info. But it is pertinent that he plays for one of the 2 teams left standing. So development minutes not a priority over winning.

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years? In my mind yes, but people tend to be attached to the guys they already have so if you really like what you saw from Grimes I'm not going to try and sell you on Prosper because I can't assure you he's anything. The value here is Grimes has had 3 years to show something, but still has major offensive question marks so its one year before a decusion has to be made. Prosper comes with more time.

But he's a late 1st. Who hasn't shown anything. He's a flier.

[vege]

He’s a rookie on the 2nd best team in the NBA? Nobody is confusing him for what Dereck Lively is doing or what Kawhi did as a rookie. But what a crazy question. He’s fine, he’s still learning the NBA game, it’s very common for rookies.

Not a crazy question. Just looking at his stats. Not in playoff rotation. Did he show any improvement? Anything encouraging a non-Dallas fan should be aware of?

He didn't play enough on the big club for anyone to tell you anything. He was good in teh G league but that should mean nothing.

He's a big body wing with really good athleticism and a defensive reputation. The biggest question for him to answer is can he shoot well enough to stay on the court.

If he was on Detroit or another team playing for nothing, he probably plays half the game this year and there is more info. But it is pertinent that he plays for one of the 2 teams left standing. So development minutes not a priority over winning.

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years? In my mind yes, but people tend to be attached to the guys they already have so if you really like what you saw from Grimes I'm not going to try and sell you on Prosper because I can't assure you he's anything. The value here is Grimes has had 3 years to show something, but still has major offensive question marks so its one year before a decusion has to be made. Prosper comes with more time.

But he's a late 1st. Who hasn't shown anything. He's a flier.

It's not 1 year of Grimes, he will be a RFA, and Grimes alread started for a playoff team and played well, He showed a lot in his career so far. He does have question marks, he had a down year, no one is saying he is anything special.

Grimes have a desired skillset, and a low ceiling, but he is a NBA player. probably a 8th man, but at very least that's who he is.

[ChettheJet]

Yes it's an unprotected pick, do you think DAL will lose game 5 be so depressed to have lost the Finals that they tear down the roster? That's right No. They look to add more than Caruso and Kispert and look to get back to the Finals. So pick ends up 24 or worse.

THJ comes off the bench for a year at almost twice what Caruso costs The Bulls are closer to the cap making it more difficult to resign DeRozan and Patrick Williams. If they do still manage to resign one or both who does Hardaway who is he backing up at the 3, do they find a trade for Lavine or is he there until the deadline when he shows he's healthy enough for a better offer? In that scenario THJ is a $16M spectator.

By itself this isn't good enough for the Bulls not even if they make 2 or 3 other major moves.

[Texas Chuck]

Grimes has had 3 years to show something, but still has major offensive question marks so its one year before a decusion has to be made. .

It's not 1 year of Grimes, he will be a RFA,

What I said does not appear to be what you responded to. Clearly I am aware he is an RFA hence me referencing a decision and not saying 1 year of Grimes period.

And again Grimes is not a good player, but definitely a more established one than Prosper right now. Not selling anyone on the swap just trying to point out in theory why one might make the swap.

[vege]

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years?

Yes you said it and one is a GLeague player, the other started for a playoff team, and played well. Similar question marks? In what planet?

[Texas Chuck]

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years?

Yes you said it and one is a GLeague player, the other started for a playoff team, and played well. Similar question marks? In what planet?

They are both limited offensive players, no? I didn't say same current level. But Grimes is a really poor offensive guy. As as the Knicks upgraded their roster they reduced his role.

but again, so we are clear. Grimes is better today. But a decision on paying him has to be made sooner. Speaking in theory only that's why one might swap a very flawed player for a prospect with more time.

I've repeated a bunch now I';m not telling anyone to trade Grimes for Prosper. I am selling nobody on Propser. So if you believe Grimes can suddenly become a good offensive player, you should keep and pay him.

Love your guy. That's cool with me.

[Kalamazoo317]

I believe in Grimes as a catch and shoot floor spacer, which is sufficient as a good defender in a backcourt with Cade

[Apz]

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years?

Yes you said it and one is a GLeague player, the other started for a playoff team, and played well. Similar question marks? In what planet?

So no real science? If thats where we going, omax got more nba finals minutes then all on pistons(i think). But is no real discussion, barely makes anything so mavs wont trade him. Also, thj and powell were starters for mavs the last time mavs made the po, cant remember u or anyone else writing them up and offering 1sts for them

[realEAST]

I don't really see the point in the Piston/Washington parts of this deal at all TBH.

For Wasington, it was about, what I thought was a better fit, and creating a (defensive) identity for a team going forward. Also, Grimes could start along Avdija and Bilal, while Kispert is always going to be behind them.

For Pistons it is about preserving cap flexibility for a couple more seasons when they hopefully are a more attractive destination, with Prosper who still has three rookie years coming in for Grimes who is expiring this summer. Also, I saw Ivey-Cade as 1-2, so finding an athletic forward with 3&D potential seemed like a way to go (also, with new GM coming, and Grimes being brought in by Weaver, it might be a case of redoing your predecessor)

So no, Detroit doesn't touch this deal, it doesn't help them financially or make sense on the court, you're just adding Detroit because they have cap flexibility, so you're dumping unwanted stuff to make your trade idea work.

I mean, it is quite easy for Dallas to just dump Powell anywhere for 2nd or two given Caruso deal goes, in order to get enough space to extednd Jones jr., so no it wasn't the whole purpose of adding Pistons.

I added Prosper / Grimes / Kispert because I thought it made sense for Detroit from financial standpoint, having two extra cheap years as this year FA is not looking that good and it gives them some more time to asses the team before commiting financially to role players.

It's all good if you see it other way, and you could easily be right, so don't get angry for no reason.

[realEAST]

THJ + 1st for Caruso is good for me, the rest is a pass...
Mavs re-sign Morris to vet min, and DJJ to 36/4 contract and call it an offseason...
If the Wizards like Powell/TOR 2nd for Kispert, then this also can be added (or send TOR 2nd to Bulls and POR 1st to the Wizards, etc...)

Dallas still needs to shave off apx 1.5 mil, so Powell and Omax for either Grimes or Kispert would get them there, while getting a more immediate upgrade, although one that is about to get paid next summer.

Mavs can add Lawson, nice kid, he was 2 way player, Mavs signed him since they couldn't fill the last roster spot.
Mavs like Prosper, they went out of their way to get him, while he started the season looking like a deer in headlight on offense, his defense and energy were great and his 3pt shot improved a lot, I doubt the team shares the pessimism about him displayed on this board.

I think Lawson is not guaranteed for the next year so he could just be cut, but I think Dallas has to lose 7.5 mil after cutting him to open up cap space. Not 100% certain but I think that is the case.

Prosper showed some improvements as a 3pt shooter which was the biggest question - he is still far from anything certain, but it wouldn't be the end of the word for me if he stays in Dallas and gets a shot.

[vege]

For Wasington, it was about, what I thought was a better fit, and creating a (defensive) identity for a team going forward. Also, Grimes could start along Avdija and Bilal, while Kispert is always going to be behind them.

For Pistons it is about preserving cap flexibility for a couple more seasons when they hopefully are a more attractive destination, with Prosper who still has three rookie years coming in for Grimes who is expiring this summer. Also, I saw Ivey-Cade as 1-2, so finding an athletic forward with 3&D potential seemed like a way to go (also, with new GM coming, and Grimes being brought in by Weaver, it might be a case of redoing your predecessor)

So no, Detroit doesn't touch this deal, it doesn't help them financially or make sense on the court, you're just adding Detroit because they have cap flexibility, so you're dumping unwanted stuff to make your trade idea work.

I mean, it is quite easy for Dallas to just dump Powell anywhere for 2nd or two given Caruso deal goes, in order to get enough space to extednd Jones jr., so no it wasn't the whole purpose of adding Pistons.

I added Prosper / Grimes / Kispert because I thought it made sense for Detroit from financial standpoint, having two extra cheap years as this year FA is not looking that good and it gives them some more time to asses the team before commiting financially to role players.

It's all good if you see it other way, and you could easily be right, so don't get angry for no reason.

I am not angry, I told you what Detroit need. We need more guys like Grimes (better if possible) so we're not dumping him for no reason.

[vege]

Is 3 years of him worth more than one of Grimes who has similar question marks after 3 years?

Yes you said it and one is a GLeague player, the other started for a playoff team, and played well. Similar question marks? In what planet?

They are both limited offensive players, no? I didn't say same current level. But Grimes is a really poor offensive guy. As as the Knicks upgraded their roster they reduced his role.

but again, so we are clear. Grimes is better today. But a decision on paying him has to be made sooner. Speaking in theory only that's why one might swap a very flawed player for a prospect with more time.

I've repeated a bunch now I';m not telling anyone to trade Grimes for Prosper. I am selling nobody on Propser. So if you believe Grimes can suddenly become a good offensive player, you should keep and pay him.

Love your guy. That's cool with me.

I don't love Grimes, but he have a desirable skillset he doesn't need to be a good offensive player, he can defend and shoot at an above average level (in theory, he was injured last season, he played solid defense but couldn't shoot at all for us), and that's valuable. while Prosper can't.

but you do you, this conversation is pointless and going nowhere.

[brackdan70]

I so t like the Pistons and Wizards components. Seems unnecessary and over complicates the trade messing the value up. I feel like Chicago needs a bit more for Caruso, but great trade for Dallas.