Musical Chairs - Kings & Jazz

[SNPA]

Oh yeah I don't think #10 is in play here. I had envisioned something like Barnes/Vezenkov/#13 for Collins/Hendricks

Add 29/32 for 45.

Deal.

There is just no way we'd do that.

Take out 32.

?

[The Beam King]

If we're just talking Hendricks why not Sasha/#13 Hendricks/#29.

Keep it simple.

[babyjax13]

Add 29/32 for 45.

Deal.

There is just no way we'd do that.

Take out 32.

?

I have Hendricks as more valuable than 13 by a small margin. Perhaps that is made up by moving Collins' contract, but I don't think we would or should add anything to that swap.

[SNPA]

There is just no way we'd do that.

Take out 32.

?

I have Hendricks as more valuable than 13 by a small margin. Perhaps that is made up by moving Collins' contract, but I don't think we would or should add anything to that swap.

Understandable. I don’t see McNair valuing him the same. Add in Danny and his negotiation style and there might not be a match here.

But…what about:

Sexton/29 for Huerter/13?

How much would Danny like a second lotto pick this year?

[babyjax13]

Take out 32.

?

I have Hendricks as more valuable than 13 by a small margin. Perhaps that is made up by moving Collins' contract, but I don't think we would or should add anything to that swap.

Understandable. I don’t see McNair valuing him the same. Add in Danny and his negotiation style and there might not be a match here.

But…what about:

Sexton/29 for Huerter/13?

How much would Danny like a second lotto pick this year?

I'm not sure, to be honest. Sexton is really good and I'm not sure if we are interesting in moving him - though I would probably do that!

[The Beam King]

I'm thinking a revamp might help here?

I get Jazz want to keep 10. Adding 13 would be nice for them. Could help to move up in the draft to get "their guy" if needs be.

What about:

Collins
Sexton
#29
#32

For

Barnes
Huerter
Vezenko
#13

Reshuffle the deck.

[OGSactownballer]

Oh yeah I don't think #10 is in play here. I had envisioned something like Barnes/Vezenkov/#13 for Collins/Hendricks

Add 29/32 for 45.

Deal.

Might be more like add #32 for the '25 Portland 2nd if the Jazz want to roll a pick to next year.
Hendricks would be a great addition to the Kings. I feel like out of all the prospects from like 4-14 he is the one that gets underrated and IMO he's going to be an AS type player in 3-4 years.
I would do that trade, particularly if my new rose coloured glasses guy in Kel'el Ware is off the board at #13.

Barnes/Vezenkov/#13/'25 Port 2nd for Collins/Hendricks/#32

If Utah want to put together #10/#13/#29 to move up into maybe Detroit at #5 or Charlotte at #6 to grab Clingan or Castle that would be the idea.
I don't see many better fits next to Sabonis than Hendricks. He isn't ready yet, but as I mentioned I think he projects to be an AS type 4 that can shoot and play excellent D.

Edit: Forgot to add, draft Ryan Dunn (#32) and Ulrich Chomche (#45) unless someone falls which is going to happen.

This is a massive overpay with Collin’s on his contract being at BEST neutral value.

Hendricks NOW < 13 + ‘25 (better draft and like a late first) Portland 2nd.

So some kind of first either needs to come back to Sac (idk if 10 but Sac can add a second to balance) to make this even.

[babyjax13]

...

This is a massive overpay with Collin’s on his contract being at BEST neutral value.

Frankly, I don't see how that is possible given his productivity. In 51 games as a starter he averaged 21/3/6 on 49/42/85 shooting, he's a positive BPM player and pretty easily our second best player. In fact, I'd say that at this moment there are only five players on the Jazz that can help a team win games consistently, Lauri, Sexton, Kessler, Dunn, and Clarkson (likely in that order).

Whether he's a good fit for Sacramento, or whether they can afford to send what he *should* return, I don't know. But I do know that we don't view him as neutral value and there is no way we'd include him in a trade if the other team thought that.

[OGSactownballer]

There is just no way we'd do that.

Take out 32.

?

I have Hendricks as more valuable than 13 by a small margin. Perhaps that is made up by moving Collins' contract, but I don't think we would or should add anything to that swap.

This is a fair take and kind of in line with how I feel.

Collin’s is at best a neutral (in his top form) due to contract and therefore he lowers value of the overall deal. Hendricks improves the Jazz side of things but then asking for the ‘25 POR 2nd - basically estimated as a first right now in a far better draft) throws it a lot the other way.

Personally I’d like to expand it to get 10 back to Sac and include either a far future (ie - ‘29 or later) lotto protected first that declines and converts, or two seconds sooner. But if not then 29 needs to come back to Sac and I’m good with that as it helps balance Collin’s contract with a cheap cost controlled rookie.

[OGSactownballer]

...

This is a massive overpay with Collin’s on his contract being at BEST neutral value.

Frankly, I don't see how that is possible given his productivity. In 51 games as a starter he averaged 21/3/6 on 49/42/85 shooting, he's a positive BPM player and pretty easily our second best player. In fact, I'd say that at this moment there are only five players on the Jazz that can help a team win games consistently, Lauri, Sexton, Kessler, Dunn, and Clarkson (likely in that order).

Whether he's a good fit for Sacramento, or whether they can afford to send what he *should* return, I don't know. But I do know that we don't view him as neutral value and there is no way we'd include him in a trade if the other team thought that.

You have to be realistic across the board though.

Second best player on not even a play in team paid like the third best player on a playoff team is what he actually is. His stats are nice for your fourth/fifth starter or a top reserve (sixth man as I’d take Naz Reid over Collin’s 10/10 times), but he’s that at best in a playoff caliber team like Sac.

So again, it comes to contract value vs player value and he is at best a neutral value to a team like Sac that’s in a higher standing point and upward trajectory.

[babyjax13]

...

This is a massive overpay with Collin’s on his contract being at BEST neutral value.

Frankly, I don't see how that is possible given his productivity. In 51 games as a starter he averaged 21/3/6 on 49/42/85 shooting, he's a positive BPM player and pretty easily our second best player. In fact, I'd say that at this moment there are only five players on the Jazz that can help a team win games consistently, Lauri, Sexton, Kessler, Dunn, and Clarkson (likely in that order).

Whether he's a good fit for Sacramento, or whether they can afford to send what he *should* return, I don't know. But I do know that we don't view him as neutral value and there is no way we'd include him in a trade if the other team thought that.

You have to be realistic across the board though.

Second best player on not even a play in team paid like the third best player on a playoff team is what he actually is. His stats are nice for your fourth/fifth starter or a top reserve (sixth man as I’d take Naz Reid over Collin’s 10/10 times), but he’s that at best in a playoff caliber team like Sac.

So again, it comes to contract value vs player value and he is at best a neutral value to a team like Sac that’s in a higher standing point and upward trajectory.

He makes $18 million a year, so no, he is not paid like the third best player on a playoff team.

Just going through the 7th and 8th seeds in both conferences:

On Miami he'd be the 6th highest paid player
On Philadelphia the 4th highest paid

On the Lakers last year he'd be 3rd, this coming year if D'Lo opted in he'd be 4th
On New Orleans he'd be the 4th highest paid player

If you look at most of the higher seeds (with exception to extraordinarily young teams) he'd still not be the third highest player on many of them. e.g.,

Dallas 3rd
Boston 6th

Minnesota 4th last year, 5th the coming year
New York 5th last year, likely 4th the coming year


So, on most playoff teams he's probably paid like the 4th or 5th best player, and I think on most playoff teams he probably would be their 3rd or 4th best player (ideally your 4th best, IMO).

I'd actually love Utah to extend him this year if that is CBA legal - if we can get him for less than $25 million a year I think that will end up being a bargain relative to his future production.

[OxAndFox]

Add 29/32 for 45.

Deal.

Might be more like add #32 for the '25 Portland 2nd if the Jazz want to roll a pick to next year.
Hendricks would be a great addition to the Kings. I feel like out of all the prospects from like 4-14 he is the one that gets underrated and IMO he's going to be an AS type player in 3-4 years.
I would do that trade, particularly if my new rose coloured glasses guy in Kel'el Ware is off the board at #13.

Barnes/Vezenkov/#13/'25 Port 2nd for Collins/Hendricks/#32

If Utah want to put together #10/#13/#29 to move up into maybe Detroit at #5 or Charlotte at #6 to grab Clingan or Castle that would be the idea.
I don't see many better fits next to Sabonis than Hendricks. He isn't ready yet, but as I mentioned I think he projects to be an AS type 4 that can shoot and play excellent D.

Edit: Forgot to add, draft Ryan Dunn (#32) and Ulrich Chomche (#45) unless someone falls which is going to happen.

This is a massive overpay with Collin’s on his contract being at BEST neutral value.

Hendricks NOW < 13 + ‘25 (better draft and like a late first) Portland 2nd.

So some kind of first either needs to come back to Sac (idk if 10 but Sac can add a second to balance) to make this even.

Fair points.
I just see JC as a decent stopgap guy until Hendricks is ready, which I would say in his 3rd season. When you can get both from the same team I wouldn't hesitate.
I'm higher on Hendricks than most though and value him at around #5-6 this draft.

[OxAndFox]

Frankly, I don't see how that is possible given his productivity. In 51 games as a starter he averaged 21/3/6 on 49/42/85 shooting, he's a positive BPM player and pretty easily our second best player. In fact, I'd say that at this moment there are only five players on the Jazz that can help a team win games consistently, Lauri, Sexton, Kessler, Dunn, and Clarkson (likely in that order).

Whether he's a good fit for Sacramento, or whether they can afford to send what he *should* return, I don't know. But I do know that we don't view him as neutral value and there is no way we'd include him in a trade if the other team thought that.

You have to be realistic across the board though.

Second best player on not even a play in team paid like the third best player on a playoff team is what he actually is. His stats are nice for your fourth/fifth starter or a top reserve (sixth man as I’d take Naz Reid over Collin’s 10/10 times), but he’s that at best in a playoff caliber team like Sac.

So again, it comes to contract value vs player value and he is at best a neutral value to a team like Sac that’s in a higher standing point and upward trajectory.

He makes $18 million a year, so no, he is not paid like the third best player on a playoff team.

Just going through the 7th and 8th seeds in both conferences:

On Miami he'd be the 6th highest paid player
On Philadelphia the 4th highest paid

On the Lakers last year he'd be 3rd, this coming year if D'Lo opted in he'd be 4th
On New Orleans he'd be the 4th highest paid player

If you look at most of the higher seeds (with exception to extraordinarily young teams) he'd still not be the third highest player on many of them. e.g.,

Dallas 3rd
Boston 6th

Minnesota 4th last year, 5th the coming year
New York 5th last year, likely 4th the coming year


So, on most playoff teams he's probably paid like the 4th or 5th best player, and I think on most playoff teams he probably would be their 3rd or 4th best player (ideally your 4th best, IMO).

Are you talking about Sexton?

OG was responding to my trade of:
Barnes/Vezenkov/#13/'25 Port 2nd for Collins/Hendricks/#32

He was meaning Collins.

[babyjax13]

You have to be realistic across the board though.

Second best player on not even a play in team paid like the third best player on a playoff team is what he actually is. His stats are nice for your fourth/fifth starter or a top reserve (sixth man as I’d take Naz Reid over Collin’s 10/10 times), but he’s that at best in a playoff caliber team like Sac.

So again, it comes to contract value vs player value and he is at best a neutral value to a team like Sac that’s in a higher standing point and upward trajectory.

He makes $18 million a year, so no, he is not paid like the third best player on a playoff team.

Just going through the 7th and 8th seeds in both conferences:

On Miami he'd be the 6th highest paid player
On Philadelphia the 4th highest paid

On the Lakers last year he'd be 3rd, this coming year if D'Lo opted in he'd be 4th
On New Orleans he'd be the 4th highest paid player

If you look at most of the higher seeds (with exception to extraordinarily young teams) he'd still not be the third highest player on many of them. e.g.,

Dallas 3rd
Boston 6th

Minnesota 4th last year, 5th the coming year
New York 5th last year, likely 4th the coming year


So, on most playoff teams he's probably paid like the 4th or 5th best player, and I think on most playoff teams he probably would be their 3rd or 4th best player (ideally your 4th best, IMO).

Are you talking about Sexton?

OG was responding to my trade of:
Barnes/Vezenkov/#13/'25 Port 2nd for Collins/Hendricks/#32

He was meaning Collins.

Oh! My bad. Yah, I absolutely agree about Collins!

[OGSactownballer]

He makes $18 million a year, so no, he is not paid like the third best player on a playoff team.

Just going through the 7th and 8th seeds in both conferences:

On Miami he'd be the 6th highest paid player
On Philadelphia the 4th highest paid

On the Lakers last year he'd be 3rd, this coming year if D'Lo opted in he'd be 4th
On New Orleans he'd be the 4th highest paid player

If you look at most of the higher seeds (with exception to extraordinarily young teams) he'd still not be the third highest player on many of them. e.g.,

Dallas 3rd
Boston 6th

Minnesota 4th last year, 5th the coming year
New York 5th last year, likely 4th the coming year


So, on most playoff teams he's probably paid like the 4th or 5th best player, and I think on most playoff teams he probably would be their 3rd or 4th best player (ideally your 4th best, IMO).

Are you talking about Sexton?

OG was responding to my trade of:
Barnes/Vezenkov/#13/'25 Port 2nd for Collins/Hendricks/#32

He was meaning Collins.

Oh! My bad. Yah, I absolutely agree about Collins!

Yeah you had me confused for a bit because Collin’s is on a 5/120 or 125 contract which comes out to about $25 million/year avg - or about what your third guy on a contending team gets with the current cap unless that guy is young on a controlled contract or a ring chasing vet. Collin’s is neither.

Sexton is a different story entirely.

[The Beam King]

John Collins for Huerter/Duarter/Vezenkov

Jazz break up Collins contract and balance their roster while adding a 6 million tpe for added trade flexibility. Huerter brings more shooting to their backcourt and maybe vezenkov finds his groove in a new situation.

Kings balance their roster and bring Collins in to start at the 4 to allow Barnes to come off the bench. This opens up draft flexibility to just draft BPA regardless of position.