Ayton to Chicago

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Bulls are eating 25 million in 2025 for this deal? Are Ayton and and Thybulle 25 million dollars better than Vuc? I don’t think so, no.

I don’t see the Bulls needing to add anything, I don’t think they do the original deal. And there is that small chance Ball is the best player in the deal by the end of this season.

[jbk1234]

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Bulls are getting off of Vuc and Ball, and Ayton is better than Vuc.

Is he?

Yes, the pendulum has swung too far on him on RealGM.

[babyjax13]

The Bulls are getting off of Vuc and Ball, and Ayton is better than Vuc.

Is he?

Yes, the pendulum has swung too far on him on RealGM.

Vuc: 18p 11r 3a .7s .8b 54%TS +0.1Bpm -0.9CPM
Ayton: 17p 11r 1.6a 1s .8b 59%TS +0.3Bpm -0.9CPM

Only +/- metric I have easy access to favoring one over the other is DARKO, which is predictive rather than a pure measure of past performance. It has Ayton at a +0.2 and Vooch at a -2. Otherwise their impact metrics are almost identical and the only real differences are Ayton is quite a bit more efficient as a scorer, and Vucevic is significantly better as a playmaker. They are both bottom of the barrel starting centers, but Vucevic is so much cheaper.

Ayton is basically this age bracket's Whiteside/Drummond. As soon as a team realizes he's a backup he'll be less harmful to the teams he plays for, but gaudy raw stats keep him starting despite the lack of positive impact.

[jbk1234]

Is he?

Yes, the pendulum has swung too far on him on RealGM.

Vuc: 18p 11r 3a .7s .8b 54%TS +0.1Bpm -0.9CPM
Ayton: 17p 11r 1.6a 1s .8b 59%TS +0.3Bpm -0.9CPM

Only +/- metric I have easy access to favoring one over the other is DARKO, which is predictive rather than a pure measure of past performance. It has Ayton at a +0.2 and Vooch at a -2. Otherwise their impact metrics are almost identical and the only real differences are Ayton is quite a bit more efficient as a scorer, and Vucevic is significantly better as a playmaker. They are both bottom of the barrel starting centers, but Vucevic is so much cheaper.

Ayton is basically this age bracket's Whiteside/Drummond. As soon as a team realizes he's a backup he'll be less harmful to the teams he plays for, but gaudy raw stats keep him starting despite the lack of positive impact.

Ayton's a better defender. It's not close. Also, Portland's guard play is BAD right now and that really matters.

[Dez]

Portland is owed something here.

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Bulls are getting off of Vuc and Ball, and Ayton is better than Vuc.

Ball is expiring.

Vuc is 20M for 24/25 and 21M for 25/26.

Ayton is 34M for 24/25 and 35.5M for 25/26.

You're smoking crack if you think Ayton is 28.5M better than Vuc that Chicago needs to add something.

[JRoy]

Is he?

Yes, the pendulum has swung too far on him on RealGM.

Vuc: 18p 11r 3a .7s .8b 54%TS +0.1Bpm -0.9CPM
Ayton: 17p 11r 1.6a 1s .8b 59%TS +0.3Bpm -0.9CPM

Only +/- metric I have easy access to favoring one over the other is DARKO, which is predictive rather than a pure measure of past performance. It has Ayton at a +0.2 and Vooch at a -2. Otherwise their impact metrics are almost identical and the only real differences are Ayton is quite a bit more efficient as a scorer, and Vucevic is significantly better as a playmaker. They are both bottom of the barrel starting centers, but Vucevic is so much cheaper.

Ayton is basically this age bracket's Whiteside/Drummond. As soon as a team realizes he's a backup he'll be less harmful to the teams he plays for, but gaudy raw stats keep him starting despite the lack of positive impact.

Empty calories.

[DiegoChara]

Bulls are eating 25 million in 2025 for this deal? Are Ayton and and Thybulle 25 million dollars better than Vuc? I don’t think so, no.

I don’t see the Bulls needing to add anything, I don’t think they do the original deal. And there is that small chance Ball is the best player in the deal by the end of this season.

There’s a better chance of Ayton being an allstar than Ball being the best player in the deal.

[jbk1234]

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Bulls are getting off of Vuc and Ball, and Ayton is better than Vuc.

Ball is expiring.

Vuc is 20M for 24/25 and 21M for 25/26.

Ayton is 34M for 24/25 and 35.5M for 25/26.

You're smoking crack if you think Ayton is 28.5M better than Vuc that Chicago needs to add something.

Ball takes up $21M this season. Some team has to pay him and some team has to have it count against the cap. Expiring doesn't equate to *good value.* Until proven otherwise, that's just $21M wasted and no team is eating it for free. So it's $7.5M, across two seasons, better, and yes, I definitely think that.

Plus, Thybulle is a really good defender on a very reasonable contract who should return a couple seconds anyway. If the Bulls won't assign that value to him, another team will.

Honestly, the best argument against this trade for the Bulls is that it might improve their team defense to the point where they end up outside the bottom 10 and convey that pick.

[JRoy]

Portland is owed something here.

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Vooch contract is also heinous and Ball won’t play so POR gives up 2 rotation players for one and a ton of dead money.

The pick needs to be included.

[Dez]

Portland is owed something here.

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Vooch contract is also heinous and Ball won’t play so POR gives up 2 rotation players for one and a ton of dead money.

The pick needs to be included.

It's not as bad as Ayton's contract and Ball will play as shown by his workouts, to what level is a different question.

Keep your albatross contract, I'd rather have Ball and Vucevic.

[DiegoChara]

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Vooch contract is also heinous and Ball won’t play so POR gives up 2 rotation players for one and a ton of dead money.

The pick needs to be included.

It's not as bad as Ayton's contract and Ball will play as shown by his workouts, to what level is a different question.

Keep your albatross contract, I'd rather have Ball and Vucevic.

Better a live albatross than one on its 17th lower extremity surgery.

[Dez]

The Vooch contract is also heinous and Ball won’t play so POR gives up 2 rotation players for one and a ton of dead money.

The pick needs to be included.

It's not as bad as Ayton's contract and Ball will play as shown by his workouts, to what level is a different question.

Keep your albatross contract, I'd rather have Ball and Vucevic.

Better a live albatross than one on its 17th lower extremity surgery.

Except Ball comes off the books after the season where as Ayton doesn't.

[JRoy]

The f***?

They're getting off Ayton's heinous contract, that should be enough.

The Vooch contract is also heinous and Ball won’t play so POR gives up 2 rotation players for one and a ton of dead money.

The pick needs to be included.

It's not as bad as Ayton's contract and Ball will play as shown by his workouts, to what level is a different question.

Keep your albatross contract, I'd rather have Ball and Vucevic.

Keep both, with PORs compliments.

I will believe Ball is playing nba basketball again when I see it.