NOP-CHA-TOR: Ingram to Charlotte / Poeltl to Pels / Toronto tank

MessiahUjiri · Post #1 » by **MessiahUjiri** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:27 pm

With Lamelo is back and the lower east looking wide open, Charlotte has an opportunity to stop being a losing team.

Brandon Ingram is from North Carolina, and also went to college at Duke NC. There are rumors that he may be available if NOP doesn’t want to pay him next year.

NOP needs a defensive C. They’re looking to make some noise in the playoffs, and Poeltl may fit well.

Toronto wants to rebuild, and are willing to take on contracts like Grant Williams if they can accumulate assets.

Here’s the trade:

Hornets: B Ingram

Pelicans: J Poeltl, C Martin, ‘25 CHA 1st (4-14), ‘27 DAL 1st

Raptors: G Williams, <filler>, ’25 NOP 1st (top 4 prot)

Godaddycurse · Post #2 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:29 pm

25 LAL 1st belongs to atlanta

MessiahUjiri · Post #3 » by **MessiahUjiri** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:36 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:25 LAL 1st belongs to atlanta

Good call, I’ll correct it.

HornetJail · Post #4 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:44 pm

i have no real interest in the max contract he might be demanding so I'm out. We might have 35M in cap space next year if we decline our non-guaranteed contracts. If he wants to be here at a reasonable price then he can come then.

Post #5 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:53 pm

No reason for the Hornets to give up assets for BI right now. He isn't the kind of player that lifts a team, particular a team that needs defense. If the Carolina ties matter to him(doubt it), use that lure in free agency in a year if you think he fits better than I do. But I'd rather get paid to take on LaVine than pay for BI if I'm trying to add offensive talent. Win just as much but stock up assets rather than lose them.

MessiahUjiri · Post #6 » by **MessiahUjiri** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:11 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:No reason for the Hornets to give up assets for BI right now. He isn't the kind of player that lifts a team, particular a team that needs defense. If the Carolina ties matter to him(doubt it), use that lure in free agency in a year if you think he fits better than I do. But I'd rather get paid to take on LaVine than pay for BI if I'm trying to add offensive talent. Win just as much but stock up assets rather than lose them.

I don’t get it. Hornets are already a ~playin team, and they’re not giving anything major here (2 bench players in Cody and Grant, a pick between 4-14, and a future DAL 1st).

I think the premise is that they should try to fail again, but they’ve already been terrible for so long, and this year they have an easy path for the playoffs.

Lamelo / Green / Ingram / Miller / Williams
Micic / Mann / Bridges / Salaun / Richards

Probably the best Charlotte team in a while.

If LaMelo, Miller and Williams are anywhere near their potential, this is a playoff team with Ingram, with a core in their 20s.

Post #7 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:54 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:No reason for the Hornets to give up assets for BI right now. He isn't the kind of player that lifts a team, particular a team that needs defense. If the Carolina ties matter to him(doubt it), use that lure in free agency in a year if you think he fits better than I do. But I'd rather get paid to take on LaVine than pay for BI if I'm trying to add offensive talent. Win just as much but stock up assets rather than lose them.

I don’t get it. Hornets are already a ~playin team, and they’re not giving anything major here (2 bench players in Cody and Grant, a pick between 4-14, and a future DAL 1st).

I think the premise is that they should try to fail again, but they’ve already been terrible for so long, and this year they have an easy path for the playoffs.

Lamelo / Green / Ingram / Miller / Williams
Micic / Mann / Bridges / Salaun / Richards

Probably the best Charlotte team in a while.

If LaMelo, Miller and Williams are anywhere near their potential, this is a playoff team with Ingram, with a core in their 20s.

The problem is you have us giving up assets for the privilege of a rental or overpaying him next year on a long term contract. No thanks. No one wants him at $40-50 million per year and that's why NO is trying to offload him.

I think Ingram might be surprised what he offered by teams in free agency around the league, and not in a good way. If he wants to come back to NC as a free agent on a reasonable contract next season sure, but this isn't the way.

HornetJail · Post #8 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:55 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:I don’t get it. Hornets are already a ~playin team, and they’re not giving anything major here (2 bench players in Cody and Grant, a pick between 4-14, and a future DAL 1st).

I think the premise is that they should try to fail again, but they’ve already been terrible for so long, and this year they have an easy path for the playoffs.

Lamelo / Green / Ingram / Miller / Williams
Micic / Mann / Bridges / Salaun / Richards

Probably the best Charlotte team in a while.

If LaMelo, Miller and Williams are anywhere near their potential, this is a playoff team with Ingram, with a core in their 20s.

there's a lot of "ifs" there. I agree on paper, that's a playoff team in the East. But BI's next contract has a hell of a lot of Batum/Hayward potential to me. And there's a chance we're just running in place if LaMelo or Mark can't stay on the court either.

Till we actually know those two can make it through a season, I'm not comfortable going in and trading what seems like modest value for the "privilege" of severely overpaying Ingram at this point in time. If he wants to be here and we want him, we can make room for him next summer.

our lineup would be Melo/Miller/Ingram/Bridges/Mark + Micic/Mann+Green+Salaun+Richards... which is still completely screwed in the frontcourt if Mark is unable to play. I would be a lot more tempted to do something like this with a PF/C capable of filling in for Mark when he's out and playing next to him when he's healthy.

MessiahUjiri · Post #9 » by **MessiahUjiri** » Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:25 pm

HornetJail wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:I don’t get it. Hornets are already a ~playin team, and they’re not giving anything major here (2 bench players in Cody and Grant, a pick between 4-14, and a future DAL 1st).

I think the premise is that they should try to fail again, but they’ve already been terrible for so long, and this year they have an easy path for the playoffs.

Lamelo / Green / Ingram / Miller / Williams
Micic / Mann / Bridges / Salaun / Richards

Probably the best Charlotte team in a while.

If LaMelo, Miller and Williams are anywhere near their potential, this is a playoff team with Ingram, with a core in their 20s.

there's a lot of "ifs" there. I agree on paper, that's a playoff team in the East. But BI's next contract has a hell of a lot of Batum/Hayward potential to me. And there's a chance we're just running in place if LaMelo or Mark can't stay on the court either.

Till we actually know those two can make it through a season, I'm not comfortable going in and trading what seems like modest value for the "privilege" of severely overpaying Ingram at this point in time. If he wants to be here and we want him, we can make room for him next summer.

our lineup would be Melo/Miller/Ingram/Bridges/Mark + Micic/Mann+Green+Salaun+Richards... which is still completely screwed in the frontcourt if Mark is unable to play. I would be a lot more tempted to do something like this with a PF/C capable of filling in for Mark when he's out and playing next to him when he's healthy.

If you're not sold on LaMelo and Mark Williams, Charlotte is screwed. :lol:

Didn't they already pay LaMelo the max too? I kinda feel like they have to try to contend going forward, but this magical cap space won't do anything since no one really signs there unless they're re-signing there (LaMelo) or looking for a final paycheck (Hayward)

HornetJail · Post #10 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:30 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
HornetJail wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:I don’t get it. Hornets are already a ~playin team, and they’re not giving anything major here (2 bench players in Cody and Grant, a pick between 4-14, and a future DAL 1st).

I think the premise is that they should try to fail again, but they’ve already been terrible for so long, and this year they have an easy path for the playoffs.

Lamelo / Green / Ingram / Miller / Williams
Micic / Mann / Bridges / Salaun / Richards

Probably the best Charlotte team in a while.

If LaMelo, Miller and Williams are anywhere near their potential, this is a playoff team with Ingram, with a core in their 20s.

there's a lot of "ifs" there. I agree on paper, that's a playoff team in the East. But BI's next contract has a hell of a lot of Batum/Hayward potential to me. And there's a chance we're just running in place if LaMelo or Mark can't stay on the court either.

Till we actually know those two can make it through a season, I'm not comfortable going in and trading what seems like modest value for the "privilege" of severely overpaying Ingram at this point in time. If he wants to be here and we want him, we can make room for him next summer.

our lineup would be Melo/Miller/Ingram/Bridges/Mark + Micic/Mann+Green+Salaun+Richards... which is still completely screwed in the frontcourt if Mark is unable to play. I would be a lot more tempted to do something like this with a PF/C capable of filling in for Mark when he's out and playing next to him when he's healthy.

If you're not sold on LaMelo and Mark Williams, Charlotte is screwed.

Didn't they already pay LaMelo the max too? I kinda feel like they have to try to contend going forward, but this magical cap space won't do anything since no one really signs there unless they're re-signing there (LaMelo) or looking for a final paycheck (Hayward)

oh i'm absolutely sold on them as players... I just need to make sure they're going to play than the 19 and 22 games they played last season before I go all in on the core. If they can't... well we're playing a game of Capture the Flagg

lordjeff05 · Post #11 » by **lordjeff05** » Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:55 pm

I def think Charlotte is a potential landing spot, and as a Pels fan I think this is a decent deal. Ingram gives you additional perimeter length and ball skills and is a hometown kid. I think the concerns about his defense are somewhat overblown as he and the team played defense well last year.

Mrakar · Post #12 » by **Mrakar** » Sat Jul 27, 2024 5:53 am

Poeltl is awful fit in New Orleans. He brings rebounding and defense but no rim protection and no spacing. Pairing him in starting lineup with non-shooter in Zion and Herb/Murray combo who had good percentages last year but are not the greatest shooters is no the way to go. I would rather roll with Theis...

Also there is like 0% chance of that Hornets picks conveying, that means Pelicans are trading Ingram and better 1st round pick for Poeltl and late 1st rounder. Thats absurd as bad as Ingram market is...

YayBasketball · Post #13 » by **YayBasketball** » Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:30 am

Mrakar wrote:Poeltl is awful fit in New Orleans. He brings rebounding and defense but no rim protection and no spacing. Pairing him in starting lineup with non-shooter in Zion and Herb/Murray combo who had good percentages last year but are not the greatest shooters is no the way to go. I would rather roll with Theis...

Also there is like 0% chance of that Hornets picks conveying, that means Pelicans are trading Ingram and better 1st round pick for Poeltl and late 1st rounder. Thats absurd as bad as Ingram market is...

Pretty sure rim protection is something Poeltl excels at, right? His reputation and advanced stats support him being a good rim protector. Sure, not a 3 pt spacer, but he's a good screen setter and passer from the high post. Not ideal, but would give them a starter to handle the Edey, Wemby, Jokic, Gobert, etc. bigs for 25-30 minutes a game on a decent 3 year deal until (if) Missi is ready.

I agree with others that the Hornets or any other team at that maybe lotto level won't trade for Ingram before the season. But I think if this drags out til' the trade deadline, a team like the Hornets could reassess where they are in the playoff mix, like how the Pacers realized they were ahead of schedule with going for Siakam.

The August 6 deadline with Lauri will be the marker. Zach Lowe threw out that an exec told him there could be an agreement in place with the Jazz for Ingram once Lauri extends. Seems like a weird direction, but could makes sense as a "see Lauri, we're trying to win with you this year" move. But still be able to re-trade Ingram at the deadline for assets (like Blazers did with Holiday) if Ainge wants to go full-tank mode. Collins + Kessler seems like a good base of a trade as useful fits for the Pels. Ainge could throw in a "least valuable of.." first from his stash. Third team may be needed.

YayBasketball · Post #14 » by **YayBasketball** » Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:39 am

Mrakar wrote:Poeltl is awful fit in New Orleans. He brings rebounding and defense but no rim protection and no spacing. Pairing him in starting lineup with non-shooter in Zion and Herb/Murray combo who had good percentages last year but are not the greatest shooters is no the way to go. I would rather roll with Theis...

Also there is like 0% chance of that Hornets picks conveying, that means Pelicans are trading Ingram and better 1st round pick for Poeltl and late 1st rounder. Thats absurd as bad as Ingram market is...

Poeltl block compilation this past season:
I'm sure the advanced stats stuff supports his rim protection, too.

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