CHI | GSW | HOU | PDX: Big Man Shuffle

[JRoy]

One whole season ago he was the anchor of the 5th best defense in the league...

Or was he just a beneficiary of defense around him because he is not a good defensive player.

The truth is a little more complicated - I mean, two of the other guys he primarily played on the floor with were Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan. It's not like Vuc was surrounded by all-defense defenders at every other position.

I think the main thing it highlights is that you can build a defensive system, that includes Vucevic, that can be successful.

Some have called it a gimmick defense, Bulls put a strong focus on rebounds over fast breaks to limit second chance opportunities at the expense of fast break points. But at the end of the day it worked. Vucevic was the starting center for a top-5 defense.

I would look at his career on that end instead of outliers. Nothing I have seen indicates he is a quality defensive player.

[drosestruts]

Or was he just a beneficiary of defense around him because he is not a good defensive player.

The truth is a little more complicated - I mean, two of the other guys he primarily played on the floor with were Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan. It's not like Vuc was surrounded by all-defense defenders at every other position.

I think the main thing it highlights is that you can build a defensive system, that includes Vucevic, that can be successful.

Some have called it a gimmick defense, Bulls put a strong focus on rebounds over fast breaks to limit second chance opportunities at the expense of fast break points. But at the end of the day it worked. Vucevic was the starting center for a top-5 defense.

I would look at his career on that end instead of outliers. Nothing I have seen indicates he is a quality defensive player.

I'm at most arguing that Vuc can be relied upon to do his job within a system. He has 7 seasons with a positive DBPM. 12 seasons with a Drtg below 110, which would be lower than the average DRtg in each of the past 5 years.

Vuc won't rack up the STOCKS or contend for any defensive 1st teams or anything like that. But quite simply - I think he can, and has been, a starting center on decent to good NBA defenses - multiple times in his career.

[Lenneth]

Comical to see people always acting like Vucevic after one bad shooting season has 'lost it' and will never be an 18-10 player. Oh yeah that's what he did last year on what those people want to make out as his decline off a cliff.

The Bulls do this, it's not great but they get off of Vuc's contract. Realize that Vucevic missed 13 games in the past 3 seasons, send them a pair of often injured guys as they give up durability and it's not the easy sell of youth.

Landale has started 9 games in 3 seasons, and never played 70 in any season. Williams has never played 62 games in any season, at best to preserve him he comes off the bench behind Jalen Smith. I'm going to make the other teams sweat and not include returning that PORT pick because because the Bulls are giving up a starter and solid rotation player and getting back 2 part time bench guys.

I don’t think the reticence to take on Vooch is so much due to a bad shooting season but due more to the fact that he provides so little on the defensive end, which is what most teams want out of their center.

One whole season ago he was the anchor of the 5th best defense in the league...

Well, he played 3 full seasons with Bulls, and they were 23rd - 5th - 22nd in terms of defensive rating. So...

[JRoy]

The truth is a little more complicated - I mean, two of the other guys he primarily played on the floor with were Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan. It's not like Vuc was surrounded by all-defense defenders at every other position.

I think the main thing it highlights is that you can build a defensive system, that includes Vucevic, that can be successful.

Some have called it a gimmick defense, Bulls put a strong focus on rebounds over fast breaks to limit second chance opportunities at the expense of fast break points. But at the end of the day it worked. Vucevic was the starting center for a top-5 defense.

I would look at his career on that end instead of outliers. Nothing I have seen indicates he is a quality defensive player.

I'm at most arguing that Vuc can be relied upon to do his job within a system. He has 7 seasons with a positive DBPM. 12 seasons with a Drtg below 110, which would be lower than the average DRtg in each of the past 5 years.

Vuc won't rack up the STOCKS or contend for any defensive 1st teams or anything like that. But quite simply - I think he can, and has been, a starting center on decent to good NBA defenses - multiple times in his career.

Id rather have Vooch than Ayton not because he is any better but because I think he is more professional than Ayton and likely to provide a better example to the young guys. I also think they are roughly equivalent and that Vooch may decline further as he ages the next few seasons.

I don’t want either as a starting center.

[Myth]

This feels unbelievably too good for Portland.

[tacos]

Smart trade... the portland pick is probably a 2nd anyway but this gives us flexibility in the future

tate is an expiring so that is good

moody also expiring and it gives us someone from that golden state system also a shooter

I wouldn't mind looney instead of tate since he is a high IQ big who does a great job of making the most of his very limited natural
talent also from that great golden state system... he also likes mentoring

We lose the potential upside of rw3 but get paid for it so all is well

any way we can send a second somewhere to grease the wheels of this trade?

[azwfan]

I don't think Houston is necessary here, it looks like we're getting two better players for no reason. We also wouldn't even have minutes for these guys, both GP and Looney deserve a consistent rotation spot when healthy.

Funny, I was thinking to cut the other two teams out and just swap Loon and GP2 for Landale and Tate.

Then again i didnt watch much ball this past season so maybe Jock and Tate’s games nose dove off a steeper cliff than Loon and GP

[RollingWave]

Chicago in: Robert Williams III and Jock Landale
Chicago out: Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig and PDX 2025 pick

Golden Stae in: Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig
Golden State out: Kevon Looney, Gary Payton II, and Moses Moody

Houston in: Kevon Looney and Gar Payton II
Houston out:Jock Landale and Jae'Sean Tate

Portland in: Jae'Sean Tate and Moses Moody and PDX 2025 pick
Portland out: Robert Williams III
.

Chicago: no, why, losing a good pick for this is just dumb.

GSW: debatable given that Vuc can at least be relied on to play, wouldn't be thrilled by ok.

Houston: value wise seems ok but it's like swaping 3 pennies for 4, cool, but why, and Landale have a bit more value in terms of optionality contract wise.

Portland: this is daylight robbery.

Conclusion: if you take out the pick this makes a lot more sense. Though Portland don't really need Moody you'd think

[vxmike]

Vuc’s contract not worth the gamble he gets his shot back and isn’t on the decline imo

I guess I would ask what the gamble is? Say Golden State lets Looney and Payton expire, going into next summer, it's not like their absence creates any ability to do anything with cap space.

Another way to say it - I don't see what buying low on Vuc prevents Golden State from being able to do at any point in the future.

How Vuc will look in Golden State is pure speculative. I happen to be of the opinion that Vuc could benefit from a change of scenery.

Over the past two years he's primarily shared the court with 4 guards - playing alongside forwards like Green and Anderson and Wiggins and Kuminga would be huge for him. I also think he's a better match for Kerr's offball movement offense over the constant pick and rolls and iso's in Chicago over the past few years.

Vuc is not a game changer on his own. Fit is and will be important to maximizing his success and value - I do think Glolden State is a team he would fit well on.

Agree. Vuc isn’t an All Star center but he was on a really bad situation in Chicago. He hadn’t played with real PF since he got there and the Bulls have also not had a real PG since Lonzo went down two years ago.

I do think he would look much better on the GS roster. He’s not a dumb or lazy defender just limited sometimes. Playing next to Green is a good fit.