[Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M)

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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#41 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:45 pm

Also, since this is an extension, TJ McConnell has $400k annually of unlikely bonuses, so those have to remain in the extension (can only go up or down 8%), so it’s probably more like a 4/$43.6m? And we haven’t yet seen if there’s any non guarantees or team options, etc, which I’m under the belief there might be.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#42 » by Mavrelous » Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:53 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

So you think Indy locked in Obi at an MLE level salary ahead of Myles Turner, or we’ll, any center?

Not sure what you're trying to say, I don't know, I simply made the observation that they are 20M below tax with no centers next year, they did so by locking up backup PG and backup PF, you provided the speculation, which I find pretty weak...


Sure. But then you stated you can’t imagine Indy would sign Obi and trad whim so quickly, which would imply you’d value Obi over Turner. Or rather, that you’d let Obi’s existence as the bench 4 in a 15 minute-ish a role determine Turner’s future with the team, rather than just possibly trade Obi.

Yes, I don't imagine Indy signing Toppin to this deal and building on trading him.
I made a very simple and straightforward factual comment about their cap and roster, the rest is your speculation.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#43 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 31, 2024 5:27 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Not sure what you're trying to say, I don't know, I simply made the observation that they are 20M below tax with no centers next year, they did so by locking up backup PG and backup PF, you provided the speculation, which I find pretty weak...


Sure. But then you stated you can’t imagine Indy would sign Obi and trad whim so quickly, which would imply you’d value Obi over Turner. Or rather, that you’d let Obi’s existence as the bench 4 in a 15 minute-ish a role determine Turner’s future with the team, rather than just possibly trade Obi.

Yes, I don't imagine Indy signing Toppin to this deal and building on trading him.
I made a very simple and straightforward factual comment about their cap and roster, the rest is your speculation.


I think you’re confused. The only fact that you stated was that Indy re signed Obi Toppin, and the projected tax line for next year. Any reasoning why they resigned Obi, or their plans for salary cap management are our own speculations. Yours and mine. As is your belief that because Indy re signed Obi, they wouldn’t consider trading him to keep Myles Turner.

We are both speculating. As we all do on this forum. I’m just speculating that if Indy has a chance to keep Myles Turner, they wouldn’t let Obi Toppin get in the way. Teams trade players all the time. That’s my speculation.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#44 » by Mavrelous » Sat Aug 31, 2024 5:36 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Sure. But then you stated you can’t imagine Indy would sign Obi and trad whim so quickly, which would imply you’d value Obi over Turner. Or rather, that you’d let Obi’s existence as the bench 4 in a 15 minute-ish a role determine Turner’s future with the team, rather than just possibly trade Obi.

Yes, I don't imagine Indy signing Toppin to this deal and building on trading him.
I made a very simple and straightforward factual comment about their cap and roster, the rest is your speculation.


I think you’re confused. The only fact that you stated was that Indy re signed Obi Toppin, and the projected tax line for next year. Any reasoning why they resigned Obi, or their plans for salary cap management are our own speculations. Yours and mine. As is your belief that because Indy re signed Obi, they wouldn’t consider trading him to keep Myles Turner.

We are both speculating. As we all do on this forum. I’m just speculating that if Indy has a chance to keep Myles Turner, they wouldn’t let Obi Toppin get in the way. Teams trade players all the time. That’s my speculation.


Here is exactly what I said
That puts them 20M below tax next year, with both their centers FAs, interesting...


You proceeded to speculate, I just didn't buy your speculations, I still don't, I am not confused at all, you and I, however, have hijacked this thread enough on this empty discussion, so I'll retire...
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#45 » by Wizop » Sat Aug 31, 2024 5:37 pm

Mavrelous wrote:Yes, I don't imagine Indy signing Toppin to this deal and building on trading him.
I made a very simple and straightforward factual comment about their cap and roster, the rest is your speculation.


Obi is not my first choice player to trade but I think Scoot is right to say his new contract doesn't mean he won't be traded. It only avoided losing him for nothing. Haliburton, Siakam, and Turner start. We have lots of options at SG (Nembhard, Sheppard, Mathurin, and Nesmith). Unless Walker proves to be a better SF than those 4, a trade for a big, defensive SF is desirable and Obi wouldn't be untouchable.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#46 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Aug 31, 2024 7:28 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Yes, I don't imagine Indy signing Toppin to this deal and building on trading him.
I made a very simple and straightforward factual comment about their cap and roster, the rest is your speculation.


I think you’re confused. The only fact that you stated was that Indy re signed Obi Toppin, and the projected tax line for next year. Any reasoning why they resigned Obi, or their plans for salary cap management are our own speculations. Yours and mine. As is your belief that because Indy re signed Obi, they wouldn’t consider trading him to keep Myles Turner.

We are both speculating. As we all do on this forum. I’m just speculating that if Indy has a chance to keep Myles Turner, they wouldn’t let Obi Toppin get in the way. Teams trade players all the time. That’s my speculation.


Here is exactly what I said
That puts them 20M below tax next year, with both their centers FAs, interesting...


You proceeded to speculate, I just didn't buy your speculations, I still don't, I am not confused at all, you and I, however, have hijacked this thread enough on this empty discussion, so I'll retire...


Well, if that was the only thing you've said, you'd be right. However, you also specifically said things like:

Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Why not? They’d obviously trade him for tax cutting measures much sooner than trade Mathurin or Walker, right? And Obi is an easier replacement than a Nesmith.

Why sign him?
The news of negotiating extention for McConnel are old, they knew the figure and still signed Toppin.
Either they are willing to pay the tax or they are giving up on one of the centers.


Pretty clear speculation, no? And a major one as to the direction of the team. If you don't agree with my speculation of possibly trading Obi, I also don't agree with your speculation that Indy has chosen Obi over the possibility of re-signing a Myles Turner and locked it in by extending McConnell.

Also, let's not call it "hijacking" the thread to respond to statements. If you can put a statement forth and you can respond to others, surely those others can also put statements forth and respond to others, let alone to respond to others that have made comments on their own posts.


But sure, if you'd like to leave the discussion as it is going forward, and move on, that's fine, and I also will. I'll stick to discussions as to McConnell's extension and Indy's cap situation going forward in this thread, which is what I thought was happening here between the two of us, rather than an unrelated hijacking of a thread.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#47 » by Mavrelous » Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:07 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I think you’re confused. The only fact that you stated was that Indy re signed Obi Toppin, and the projected tax line for next year. Any reasoning why they resigned Obi, or their plans for salary cap management are our own speculations. Yours and mine. As is your belief that because Indy re signed Obi, they wouldn’t consider trading him to keep Myles Turner.

We are both speculating. As we all do on this forum. I’m just speculating that if Indy has a chance to keep Myles Turner, they wouldn’t let Obi Toppin get in the way. Teams trade players all the time. That’s my speculation.


Here is exactly what I said
That puts them 20M below tax next year, with both their centers FAs, interesting...


You proceeded to speculate, I just didn't buy your speculations, I still don't, I am not confused at all, you and I, however, have hijacked this thread enough on this empty discussion, so I'll retire...


Well, if that was the only thing you've said, you'd be right. However, you also specifically said things like:

Mavrelous wrote:Why sign him?
The news of negotiating extention for McConnel are old, they knew the figure and still signed Toppin.
Either they are willing to pay the tax or they are giving up on one of the centers.


Pretty clear speculation, no? And a major one as to the direction of the team. If you don't agree with my speculation of possibly trading Obi, I also don't agree with your speculation that Indy has chosen Obi over the possibility of re-signing a Myles Turner and locked it in by extending McConnell.

Also, let's not call it "hijacking" the thread to respond to statements. If you can put a statement forth and you can respond to others, surely those others can also put statements forth and respond to others, let alone to respond to others that have made comments on their own posts.


But sure, if you'd like to leave the discussion as it is going forward, and move on, that's fine, and I also will. I'll stick to discussions as to McConnell's extension and Indy's cap situation going forward in this thread, which is what I thought was happening here between the two of us, rather than an unrelated hijacking of a thread.

That's disingenuous...
You made the claim they'd move Toppin, you speculated that's their plan and I answered, I didn't come with this suggestion.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#48 » by bondom34 » Tue Sep 3, 2024 5:05 pm

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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#49 » by gswhoops » Tue Sep 3, 2024 11:07 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=mPG1EPTgvTFsbTSqg8rcEQ

Wow, that's a great deal for Indy.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#50 » by patman66 » Wed Sep 4, 2024 3:23 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:That puts them 20M below tax next year, with both their centers FAs, interesting...



Would assume Toppin gets traded for an expiring near the deadline. Which would leave Indy with around $30m under the tax for Myles/1st and a minimum or two. Which yes, could be tight.


It might be hard to move him at 15mill. A regression to career norms and it will be even harder. Lets hop the light went on for him last year and it carries over.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#51 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 4, 2024 12:09 pm

patman66 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:That puts them 20M below tax next year, with both their centers FAs, interesting...



Would assume Toppin gets traded for an expiring near the deadline. Which would leave Indy with around $30m under the tax for Myles/1st and a minimum or two. Which yes, could be tight.


It might be hard to move him at 15mill. A regression to career norms and it will be even harder. Lets hop the light went on for him last year and it carries over.



He’s making under $13m this year. Spotrac has his incentives listed incorrectly as “likely” (they are reportedly wildly unlikely). With that in mind, starting next summer, he’ll make less than the MLE and would fit into the non taxpayer MLE via trade.

Edit: To be clear, yes, Obi is a risk of regression for sure. Hopefully, with Indy keeping 3 PG's who can feed him and play to his style, that risk is lessened. But yeah, it was such an improvement of a season for him, statistically speaking, that it's hard not to wonder if it's permanent, or if it was the peak. Hopefully, the ease of which to trade him (mechanically speaking, since he fits into MLE and wouldn't require full on salary matching, per se) will lighten that risk?
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#52 » by 165bows » Wed Sep 4, 2024 12:30 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I assume that some of this is non-guaranteed.

I like the player and like the deal for the guy he is now. But 5 years is a looooong deal for a 31 year old bench player. If this is all guaranteed I wouldn't have this as a "bad" deal but I would have it as an incredibly hard contract to move because most teams wouldn't want to potentially create some burdensome financial moves down the line to lock a backup PG up this long.

Yeah that makes sense, otherwise this is Gabe Vincent 2.0.
Edit: didn't see the above tweet, still pays him through his age 34-35 season. Good for him though, wouldn't have thought he'd go that long.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#53 » by Rapcity_11 » Wed Sep 4, 2024 4:52 pm

Wait, TJ averaged 20/11/5 per 36 last year? On 59% TS. WTF.

I knew he had a good year, but damn.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#54 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Fri Sep 6, 2024 3:02 am

ConSarnit wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Maybe not to dump him. But to use him as security in case Walker isn’t ready, and then trade him (maybe with Mathurin and/or Jackson) for a better fitting piece long term and salary flexibility? Well sure. Why not? He was affordable, he’s good, and we have the room this year. Teams often trade guys they re-sign.

I don't find this plausible at all, this is a 4 years signing at MLE+, to the upper end of his potential salary, if not more.


I’m not really a fan of either the Toppin signing or the TJ signing for the Pacers. McConnell is a non-shooting backup pg in his early 30’s signed for 4 more years. The Pacers already have Nembhard (who is better) and I’m not sure McConnell can return positive value if he’s moved. Toppin is a 1 position backup pf (not exactly an area that is high demand) who is now making the MLE+ and the Pacers have a top 10 pick in Walker waiting in the wings. Both these guys could get usurped (McConnell already is) and I think they are both overpaid for their roles/skills (Toppin positionally locked as a pf and McConnell as a non-shooting guard in his 30’s signed for the long term). Just give the backup role to Nembhard, see if Walker gives you anything in his 2nd year and try to make better use of that nearly $25m in salary. I get that IND is not some free agent hot bed but I would have gone a different route.

I think TJ has a very legitimate case of being the best backup PG in the NBA, but if not the best, he's certainly top 3. The dude's value goes far beyond what shows up on the score sheet as well. He's a pesky defender that routinely changes the momentum of a game with hustle plays, and he very rarely tries to do stuff outside of his game. He knows his role and plays it to perfection. The lack of shooting isn't a massive factor with him because of how crafty he is, his midrange is pretty good, and he can finish in traffic at a good clip as well. Plus, the dude is 100% an extra coach on the court. Dude is a leader through and through.

I woulda been super bummed if this dude finished his career with anyone but the Pacers. He just gives his all every single game and being that his game has never relied on athleticism, there is no reason to think he's going to fall off a cliff or anything.
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Re: [Wojnarowski]: McConnell Extends in Indiana (4/$45M) 

Post#55 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Fri Sep 6, 2024 3:14 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:Wait, TJ averaged 20/11/5 per 36 last year? On 59% TS. WTF.

I knew he had a good year, but damn.

The dude is seriously a great player.

Reading other teams game threads is always funny because you'll always see "Why do we always let bums like McConnell tear us apart?" not realizing that is being said about him in nearly every game thread. He's just always making a difference.

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