Beal to Utah

[Phystic]

I'm not 100% sure you get worse from a talent perspective. That's a ton of depth added.

Ton of depth is being very generous to your side of the proposal

Clarkson will take some of Beals place. Collins may give some depth however there's clearly a reason he is being/has been moved. And the other player clearly isn't going to be in the rotation.

Beal is very clearly the better talent. You can argue that it would addition by subtraction. Which is a fair argument.

But again, anything with outgoing picks is a deal breaker just my personal opinion. Suns can't afford to give out a 1st a decade from now.

I think Juzang might be in the rotation at the expense of Clarkson. He's very plug and play, and pretty solid when given minutes.

I'll be honest, never heard of him. Obviously I know Clarkson, didn't realize he had fallen off.

[babyjax13]

Ton of depth is being very generous to your side of the proposal

Clarkson will take some of Beals place. Collins may give some depth however there's clearly a reason he is being/has been moved. And the other player clearly isn't going to be in the rotation.

Beal is very clearly the better talent. You can argue that it would addition by subtraction. Which is a fair argument.

But again, anything with outgoing picks is a deal breaker just my personal opinion. Suns can't afford to give out a 1st a decade from now.

I think Juzang might be in the rotation at the expense of Clarkson. He's very plug and play, and pretty solid when given minutes.

I'll be honest, never heard of him. Obviously I know Clarkson, didn't realize he had fallen off.

I think Clarkson may return to better form off the bench. But really no reason for people to hear of Juzang, I just like him and think he's a fine 8th/9th man.

[Phystic]

I think Juzang might be in the rotation at the expense of Clarkson. He's very plug and play, and pretty solid when given minutes.

I'll be honest, never heard of him. Obviously I know Clarkson, didn't realize he had fallen off.

I think Clarkson may return to better form off the bench. But really no reason for people to hear of Juzang, I just like him and think he's a fine 8th/9th man.

Ya in this scenario I envision Clarkson would be our 6th man and come in with Morris in the back court .

Suns current have:
Tyus, Morris, Gillespie
Beal, Okogie
Booker, Allen, Dunn
KD, Oneal, Bol
Nurkic, Plumlee, Ighodaro, Kaminsky

Obviously multiple positions players could play. But not sure where he'd fit there. Suns seem pretty high on Dunn.

[babyjax13]

I'll be honest, never heard of him. Obviously I know Clarkson, didn't realize he had fallen off.

I think Clarkson may return to better form off the bench. But really no reason for people to hear of Juzang, I just like him and think he's a fine 8th/9th man.

Ya in this scenario I envision Clarkson would be our 6th man and come in with Morris in the back court .

Suns current have:
Tyus, Morris, Gillespie
Beal, Okogie
Booker, Allen, Dunn
KD, Oneal, Bol
Nurkic, Plumlee, Ighodaro, Kaminsky

Obviously multiple positions players could play. But not sure where he'd fit there. Suns seem pretty high on Dunn.

Dunn was really good for us. You would hopefully have some inbuilt chemistry with Dunn, Clarkson, and Collins all having played together, and Clarkson/O'neale having played together.

[SkyHook]

I think Clarkson may return to better form off the bench. But really no reason for people to hear of Juzang, I just like him and think he's a fine 8th/9th man.

Ya in this scenario I envision Clarkson would be our 6th man and come in with Morris in the back court .

Suns current have:
Tyus, Morris, Gillespie
Beal, Okogie
Booker, Allen, Dunn
KD, Oneal, Bol
Nurkic, Plumlee, Ighodaro, Kaminsky

Obviously multiple positions players could play. But not sure where he'd fit there. Suns seem pretty high on Dunn.

Dunn was really good for us. You would hopefully have some inbuilt chemistry with Dunn, Clarkson, and Collins all having played together, and Clarkson/O'neale having played together.

Suns have Ryan Dunn not Kris, who went via sign and trade to the Clippers.

[babyjax13]

Ya in this scenario I envision Clarkson would be our 6th man and come in with Morris in the back court .

Suns current have:
Tyus, Morris, Gillespie
Beal, Okogie
Booker, Allen, Dunn
KD, Oneal, Bol
Nurkic, Plumlee, Ighodaro, Kaminsky

Obviously multiple positions players could play. But not sure where he'd fit there. Suns seem pretty high on Dunn.

Dunn was really good for us. You would hopefully have some inbuilt chemistry with Dunn, Clarkson, and Collins all having played together, and Clarkson/O'neale having played together.

Suns have Ryan Dunn not Kris, who went via sign and trade to the Clippers.

doh

[jazzfan1971]

Even with Beal's fragility he is a 20/5/5 ish player on ELITE efficiency. It is a talent downgrade, though one that might be made up for just be the huge need for more depth in the frontcourt. That said, I completely appreciate not being willing to move a first from Phoenix' perspective, that is probably the right call (though may depend on the kinds of moves that do/don't become available after the trade).

I do hope, though, that this is a semi-plausible scenario for moving Beal. We do see over and over that players we think are unmovable usually aren't.

18.2/4.4/5

He did shoot the he'll out of the ball last year, I'll give you that.

His minutes were limited for part of the season, if he's playing regularly I think those scoring and assist numbers go up. His efficiency on lower volume the last two seasons has been amazing.

Well. I think you are presenting opinion as fact a bit then. He played 33mpg last year. It's possible that his numbers go up to 36min and you are correct, but I don't think the counter position of him maintaining those minutes and a similar level of production to last year is any less likely. Given the uncertainty, I'd prefer to just use the stats we have from last season.

To be fair I'm also preferring to use Clarkson's stats from last year even though I'm hoping they might be better this year. But, I'm more comfortable just sticking to the stats even if I think there may be some reason to think he will bounce back.

[Phystic]

18.2/4.4/5

He did shoot the he'll out of the ball last year, I'll give you that.

His minutes were limited for part of the season, if he's playing regularly I think those scoring and assist numbers go up. His efficiency on lower volume the last two seasons has been amazing.

Well. I think you are presenting opinion as fact a bit then. He played 33mpg last year. It's possible that his numbers go up to 36min and you are correct, but I don't think the counter position of him maintaining those minutes and a similar level of production to last year is any less likely. Given the uncertainty, I'd prefer to just use the stats we have from last season.

To be fair I'm also preferring to use Clarkson's stats from last year even though I'm hoping they might be better this year. But, I'm more comfortable just sticking to the stats even if I think there may be some reason to think he will bounce back.

That's reasonable, then also need to factor in that Beal was playing out of position and as a third/fourth option. So splitting hairs between 20/5/5 vs 18/4.5/5 seems a bit trivial.

It's pretty clear Beal is very easily at least a 20/5/5 player.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made here regarding contract, health, depth,etc. but from a purely talent perspective it's clear Beal is on a much higher level than the other pieces.

Even though Beal is flawed and Suns team construction is highly flawed I don't see this trade as improving the Suns on the court and that's clearly where the new owner is focused not on salary cap management(not a good idea)

[clippertown]

Assuming Utah wont pay him to get waived a year early, this just means Utah wins more games and it hurts the tank. Beal is owed over $100M on his current deal with a player option for another $57M in 26/27. He won't take a discount because he is maybe the greediest player in the league. First round picks have nowhere near this kind of value to offset the gargantuan cost.

Utah wont then be able to unload Beal to another team without attaching picks and therefore I don't see the benefit.

[jazzfan1971]

His minutes were limited for part of the season, if he's playing regularly I think those scoring and assist numbers go up. His efficiency on lower volume the last two seasons has been amazing.

Well. I think you are presenting opinion as fact a bit then. He played 33mpg last year. It's possible that his numbers go up to 36min and you are correct, but I don't think the counter position of him maintaining those minutes and a similar level of production to last year is any less likely. Given the uncertainty, I'd prefer to just use the stats we have from last season.

To be fair I'm also preferring to use Clarkson's stats from last year even though I'm hoping they might be better this year. But, I'm more comfortable just sticking to the stats even if I think there may be some reason to think he will bounce back.

That's reasonable, then also need to factor in that Beal was playing out of position and as a third/fourth option. So splitting hairs between 20/5/5 vs 18/4.5/5 seems a bit trivial.

It's pretty clear Beal is very easily at least a 20/5/5 player.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made here regarding contract, health, depth,etc. but from a purely talent perspective it's clear Beal is on a much higher level than the other pieces.

Even though Beal is flawed and Suns team construction is highly flawed I don't see this trade as improving the Suns on the court and that's clearly where the new owner is focused not on salary cap management(not a good idea)

I'm a guy that says if the player steps across the free throw line that it wasn't a 'Dunk from the free throw line' but I'm in the minority on that.

We know exactly what his stats were last year, why not use those instead of something other?

[Phystic]

Well. I think you are presenting opinion as fact a bit then. He played 33mpg last year. It's possible that his numbers go up to 36min and you are correct, but I don't think the counter position of him maintaining those minutes and a similar level of production to last year is any less likely. Given the uncertainty, I'd prefer to just use the stats we have from last season.

To be fair I'm also preferring to use Clarkson's stats from last year even though I'm hoping they might be better this year. But, I'm more comfortable just sticking to the stats even if I think there may be some reason to think he will bounce back.

That's reasonable, then also need to factor in that Beal was playing out of position and as a third/fourth option. So splitting hairs between 20/5/5 vs 18/4.5/5 seems a bit trivial.

It's pretty clear Beal is very easily at least a 20/5/5 player.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made here regarding contract, health, depth,etc. but from a purely talent perspective it's clear Beal is on a much higher level than the other pieces.

Even though Beal is flawed and Suns team construction is highly flawed I don't see this trade as improving the Suns on the court and that's clearly where the new owner is focused not on salary cap management(not a good idea)

I'm a guy that says if the player steps across the free throw line that it wasn't a 'Dunk from the free throw line' but I'm in the minority on that.

We know exactly what his stats were last year, why not use those instead of something other?

Because statistics in sports have more nuance to them than that.

Do you actually believe that if Beal was not a third option at best he would not put up better counting stats?

[babyjax13]

Well. I think you are presenting opinion as fact a bit then. He played 33mpg last year. It's possible that his numbers go up to 36min and you are correct, but I don't think the counter position of him maintaining those minutes and a similar level of production to last year is any less likely. Given the uncertainty, I'd prefer to just use the stats we have from last season.

To be fair I'm also preferring to use Clarkson's stats from last year even though I'm hoping they might be better this year. But, I'm more comfortable just sticking to the stats even if I think there may be some reason to think he will bounce back.

That's reasonable, then also need to factor in that Beal was playing out of position and as a third/fourth option. So splitting hairs between 20/5/5 vs 18/4.5/5 seems a bit trivial.

It's pretty clear Beal is very easily at least a 20/5/5 player.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made here regarding contract, health, depth,etc. but from a purely talent perspective it's clear Beal is on a much higher level than the other pieces.

Even though Beal is flawed and Suns team construction is highly flawed I don't see this trade as improving the Suns on the court and that's clearly where the new owner is focused not on salary cap management(not a good idea)

I'm a guy that says if the player steps across the free throw line that it wasn't a 'Dunk from the free throw line' but I'm in the minority on that.

We know exactly what his stats were last year, why not use those instead of something other?

Because he has an entire career of being more than that?

[hcsilla]

I think that this deal fits much more into the direction that the Jazz follows than into the one that the Suns do.

Snce Juzang is probably would be avaiable for a few 2nd rounders this deal is Beal, 2031 1st for Collins, Clarkson.

I do think that is a too high price for getting rid of the last year of Beal's contract and tax savings. Getting Clarkson for Beal is obviously a downgrade on the court which might or might not be covered by Collins' contribution as a backup bigman.

I understand the logic of splitting Beal's contract to 2 smaller ones (without NTC) but the simple fact that Collins and Clarkon are still on UTA's roster is a good indicator how coveted assets they are.

Trading one of the essential parts of the Suns' future for no upgrade on the court and financial relief is very dangerous and probably one of the last things that Ishbia is willing to do.