Trade offers for Darius Garland?

[cgf]

Garland is currently shooting 66.3 TS%, that's a game breaking kind of number.

True. But it’s way too early for any %s to be too useful. That takes 30+ games to even start having any meaning.

Plus he still doesn’t have the size to overwhelm defenders that have the physical gifts to deal with someone like Mitchell…which is part of what makes me less worried about DG & DM than I would be DM & Franz.

Well, we're looking at this trade now, not 20+ games from now, and for the moment this is our new reality. Do you trade a player on the cusp of fulfilling his potential of becoming a Steph-level player because you're afraid he's going to come back down to Earth?

You might fairly ask what's changed? And the answer is quite a lot, from Garland being healthy and regaining his strength to Kenny's offense providing more time and more space for Garland to work.

As for Garland dealing with taller defenders, this clip from the Knicks game comes to mind where OG is busy defending Mobley while Bridges gets completely stuck in mud trying to defend the much quicker Garland:

https://youtu.be/GARYPjBOSgo?si=yKk86cR2aNWBsSv2&t=277

And this is where having both Mitchell and Garland is an asset. For instance, maybe OG can stop one of Mitchell or Garland if he gets them 1v1, but there's 2 of them and the Cavs aren't shy about setting multiple screens to get a more favorable match-up. And now Mobley has been activated, Jerome has been fantastic, and if you're 3rd or 4th best defender is kind of meh, LeVert can kill you too.

They key for DG is staying healthy and Franz has had better success doing that; but Franz has to get his 3pt% up higher and keep it up. That 27% 3pt% from Franz last year was killing the Magic.

Meanwhile Garland doesn't just bury 3's, he sinks deep 3's, step back 3's, off the dribble 3's, pull up 3's, spot up 3's, etc. I've never seen an opponent dare Garland to shoot a 3pter and that creates gravity for Mitchell as Mitchell creates gravity for Garland.

Nah I was talking about this summer when both extensions have kicked in to make the cap math easier and each team has gotten to see how they do in the playoffs this year…as well as how each principle bounces back this year.

I know everything that went wrong for him last year. Half the time I suggest it I spend explaining all of that to Orlando fans that are down on Garland after last year, and the other half defending Franz to Cavs fans down on him for his injury plagued season last year lol

This trade scares me as a Knicks fan because I’m very high on both young players and think they could shine even brighter in their new environments.

[Ryreb]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

A package as in Garland & Allen to start for Giannis, more would be involved, thats the starting point though. Cavs will not take Lillard back. Let him play off the ball with Garland at the point. The second move would be to move lopez

[JonFromVA]

True. But it’s way too early for any %s to be too useful. That takes 30+ games to even start having any meaning.

Plus he still doesn’t have the size to overwhelm defenders that have the physical gifts to deal with someone like Mitchell…which is part of what makes me less worried about DG & DM than I would be DM & Franz.

Well, we're looking at this trade now, not 20+ games from now, and for the moment this is our new reality. Do you trade a player on the cusp of fulfilling his potential of becoming a Steph-level player because you're afraid he's going to come back down to Earth?

You might fairly ask what's changed? And the answer is quite a lot, from Garland being healthy and regaining his strength to Kenny's offense providing more time and more space for Garland to work.

As for Garland dealing with taller defenders, this clip from the Knicks game comes to mind where OG is busy defending Mobley while Bridges gets completely stuck in mud trying to defend the much quicker Garland:

https://youtu.be/GARYPjBOSgo?si=yKk86cR2aNWBsSv2&t=277

And this is where having both Mitchell and Garland is an asset. For instance, maybe OG can stop one of Mitchell or Garland if he gets them 1v1, but there's 2 of them and the Cavs aren't shy about setting multiple screens to get a more favorable match-up. And now Mobley has been activated, Jerome has been fantastic, and if you're 3rd or 4th best defender is kind of meh, LeVert can kill you too.

They key for DG is staying healthy and Franz has had better success doing that; but Franz has to get his 3pt% up higher and keep it up. That 27% 3pt% from Franz last year was killing the Magic.

Meanwhile Garland doesn't just bury 3's, he sinks deep 3's, step back 3's, off the dribble 3's, pull up 3's, spot up 3's, etc. I've never seen an opponent dare Garland to shoot a 3pter and that creates gravity for Mitchell as Mitchell creates gravity for Garland.

Nah I was talking about this summer when both extensions have kicked in to make the cap math easier and each team has gotten to see how they do in the playoffs this year…as well as how each principle bounces back this year.

I know everything that went wrong for him last year. Half the time I suggest it I spend explaining all of that to Orlando fans that are down on Garland after last year, and the other half defending Franz to Cavs fans down on him for his injury plagued season last year lol

This trade scares me as a Knicks fan because I’m very high on both young players and think they could shine even brighter in their new environments.

As much as the Magic would benefit from more playmaking and the Cavs could use more wing length, we need to consider team construction.

The Magic defense depends on their all around length, while the Cavs investment in Allen and Mobley lets them sacrifice defense for offensive/playmaking.

Case in point, we'll give your Knicks more time to gel, but it's possible they fell too much in love with what looked good on paper vs building on what was already looking very promising on the floor.

[cgf]

Well, we're looking at this trade now, not 20+ games from now, and for the moment this is our new reality. Do you trade a player on the cusp of fulfilling his potential of becoming a Steph-level player because you're afraid he's going to come back down to Earth?

You might fairly ask what's changed? And the answer is quite a lot, from Garland being healthy and regaining his strength to Kenny's offense providing more time and more space for Garland to work.

As for Garland dealing with taller defenders, this clip from the Knicks game comes to mind where OG is busy defending Mobley while Bridges gets completely stuck in mud trying to defend the much quicker Garland:

https://youtu.be/GARYPjBOSgo?si=yKk86cR2aNWBsSv2&t=277

And this is where having both Mitchell and Garland is an asset. For instance, maybe OG can stop one of Mitchell or Garland if he gets them 1v1, but there's 2 of them and the Cavs aren't shy about setting multiple screens to get a more favorable match-up. And now Mobley has been activated, Jerome has been fantastic, and if you're 3rd or 4th best defender is kind of meh, LeVert can kill you too.

They key for DG is staying healthy and Franz has had better success doing that; but Franz has to get his 3pt% up higher and keep it up. That 27% 3pt% from Franz last year was killing the Magic.

Meanwhile Garland doesn't just bury 3's, he sinks deep 3's, step back 3's, off the dribble 3's, pull up 3's, spot up 3's, etc. I've never seen an opponent dare Garland to shoot a 3pter and that creates gravity for Mitchell as Mitchell creates gravity for Garland.

Nah I was talking about this summer when both extensions have kicked in to make the cap math easier and each team has gotten to see how they do in the playoffs this year…as well as how each principle bounces back this year.

I know everything that went wrong for him last year. Half the time I suggest it I spend explaining all of that to Orlando fans that are down on Garland after last year, and the other half defending Franz to Cavs fans down on him for his injury plagued season last year lol

This trade scares me as a Knicks fan because I’m very high on both young players and think they could shine even brighter in their new environments.

As much as the Magic would benefit from more playmaking and the Cavs could use more wing length, we need to consider team construction.

The Magic defense depends on their all around length, while the Cavs investment in Allen and Mobley lets them sacrifice defense for offensive/playmaking.

Case in point, we'll give your Knicks more time to gel, but it's possible they fell too much in love with what looked good on paper vs building on what was already looking very promising on the floor.

Certainly possible…I didn’t love the trade when it happened because I think Randle & Towns are in the same tier even before we factor in Donte…but I need to see this team with some proper rim protection before I can start to react to their moves.

I still wonder what if we had offered the Bulls our 2 FRPs for Caruso & thrown a pick at Orlando for Goga after hart left…but things should be a lot smoother with Robinson & Achiuwa protecting the rim for Karl…especially if Huk becomes a player or we can get Kessler for Dadiet + WSH FRP + Sims.


You may be right, but I look at a defense that would have Suggs, Banchero, Carter/Isaac/Goga, plus KCP/Isaac/Black around Garland and that should still be brutal to play against…only with an unlocked offense giving that defense a much bigger margin for error.


Whereas I look at you and all of a sudden your biggest weaknesses are gone…with Mitchell, Franz, Mobley, Allen ( or Herb Jones / Trey Murphy) and Strus or Wade, who is an offense supposed to try picking on?

Plus you’d have a big wing to counter teams that had the size on the wing to bother both of your guards. Like let’s say OG is swallowing up Spida, we’ve still got Bridges & McBride to throw at Garland. But with Franz we wouldn’t be able to put Deuce on him at all, and he’d have the size advantage on Mikal.

[cgf]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

A package as in Garland & Allen to start for Giannis, more would be involved, thats the starting point though. Cavs will not take Lillard back. Let him play off the ball with Garland at the point. The second move would be to move lopez

That’s kinda where I ended up as I brainstormed the idea. DG + JA + Herro & some draft capital from Miami to the Bucks. Lillard to Miami. Lopez & some draft capital from Miami to New Orleans. Giannis + Herb to Cleveland.

CLE
Mitchell
Strus/Wade
Jones
Giannis
Mobley

MIA
Lillard / Rozier
Butler
Jaquez
Adebayo
Ware

MIL
Garland
Herro
Middleton
Portis
Allen

NOLA
Murray / McCollum
Murphy
Ingram
Williamson
Lopez

Not sure if Miami has all of their picks or not to bridge the gaps with Milwaukee and New Orleans, but if they do that could be an interesting way for: Cleveland to really go for it. Milwaukee to pivot to a good team just entering its prime. Miami to try and spark things for one last hurray with Jimmy & Dame. And NOLA to address their center hole with someone who can protect the rim and space the court for Zion.

[JJ_PR]

Cavs aren't trading Garland, much less Allen, after hiring his former coach.

[DowJones]

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

A package as in Garland & Allen to start for Giannis, more would be involved, thats the starting point though. Cavs will not take Lillard back. Let him play off the ball with Garland at the point. The second move would be to move lopez

That’s kinda where I ended up as I brainstormed the idea. DG + JA + Herro & some draft capital from Miami to the Bucks. Lillard to Miami. Lopez & some draft capital from Miami to New Orleans. Giannis + Herb to Cleveland.

CLE
Mitchell
Strus/Wade
Jones
Giannis
Mobley

MIA
Lillard / Rozier
Butler
Jaquez
Adebayo
Ware

MIL
Garland
Herro
Middleton
Portis
Allen

NOLA
Murray / McCollum
Murphy
Ingram
Williamson
Lopez

Not sure if Miami has all of their picks or not to bridge the gaps with Milwaukee and New Orleans, but if they do that could be an interesting way for: Cleveland to really go for it. Milwaukee to pivot to a good team just entering its prime. Miami to try and spark things for one last hurray with Jimmy & Dame. And NOLA to address their center hole with someone who can protect the rim and space the court for Zion.

It is really hard to find a Giannis to Cleveland deal that can work under the CBA. Allen and Garland make too much money. Same with Mobley and Garland. You might be able to bring New Orleans in as a 3rd team. You would need to send Allen to NO and probably return all of Milwaukee's draft capital that NO owns, but I am not sure if NO is interested in a move like that considering their current position.

[Laimbeer]

Garland stunk, but if I'm a Cavs fan I am not discouraged by what I saw last night.

[JayMKE]

Bucks aren’t trading Giannis for Garland so best give up on that angle. That team you guys came up with would be terrible.

[cgf]

Bucks aren’t trading Giannis for Garland so best give up on that angle. That team you guys came up with would be terrible.

Sounds like an upgrade

[JayMKE]

Bucks aren’t trading Giannis for Garland so best give up on that angle. That team you guys came up with would be terrible.

Sounds like an upgrade

All time bad defense, 1st round fodder at best and with no way of improving for years with no picks of our own while still in cap hell. Total nightmare.

Giannis going out like Dirk is fine seriously, Bucks aren't trading our 3 best players for your 3rd best player and a couple middling picks that doesn't entice anybody. It's just insane and stingy on another level.

[Texas Chuck]

Giannis going out like Dirk is fine seriously,

I would say it depends on how the Bucks behaved. Dallas kept trying to paper a team together around Dirk past the time he was a franchise level player. And thus when Luka arrived instead of having the extra assets and promising young talent a bad team typically has, Dallas has suffered in trying to put a contender around Luka on the cheap.

Now if the Bucks and Giannis are willing to just rebuild while keeping Giannis on the roster but building up an asset base for the next good Bucks team, sure. But my guess is Giannis isn't going to want to stick around a team not trying to compete. And you might cost the next generation if you keep trying to make it work when its just not going to.

Note: I think its too soon to give up on the Bucks and way too soon to talk about trading Giannis. But players 2-4 on all on the decline and it could go south really quickly. Not sure what the pivot point is if these veterans can't get it done.

[Ell Curry]

Presumably this wouldn't happen until a dissappointing Cavs playoffs loss. At which point, maybe a Raptors offer like this becomes plausible:

Cavs - RJ Barrett, 25M wing from Team X, Toronto Raptors 1st
Raptors - Garland, Strus,
Team X - Quickley

Some options for another wing to Cleveland:
-Orlando: Caldwell-Pope and a pair of firsts (I like this one the best, Orlando gets the scoring guard they need and Cleveland gets a veteran 3+D wing and some firsts)
-San Antonio: Kelden Johnson + lotto protected 1st rounder
-Golden State: Sign and trade of Kuminga, if this works under the cap

Raptors get a lineup of Garland-Dick-2025-pick-Agbaji-Barnes-Poeltl as their top 6, with a re-signed Davion Mitchell, Mogbo and Olynyk as the main bench guys, maybe get NAW for the MLE if he wants to come home.

[jbk1234]

Presumably this wouldn't happen until a dissappointing Cavs playoffs loss. At which point, maybe a Raptors offer like this becomes plausible:

Cavs - RJ Barrett, 25M wing from Team X, Toronto Raptors 1st
Raptors - Garland, Strus,
Team X - Quickley

Some options for another wing to Cleveland:
-Orlando: Caldwell-Pope and a pair of firsts (I like this one the best, Orlando gets the scoring guard they need and Cleveland gets a veteran 3+D wing and some firsts)
-San Antonio: Kelden Johnson + lotto protected 1st rounder
-Golden State: Sign and trade of Kuminga, if this works under the cap

Raptors get a lineup of Garland-Dick-2025-pick-Agbaji-Barnes-Poeltl as their top 6, with a re-signed Davion Mitchell, Mogbo and Olynyk as the main bench guys, maybe get NAW for the MLE if he wants to come home.

This isn't remotely plausible.

[Ell Curry]

Presumably this wouldn't happen until a dissappointing Cavs playoffs loss. At which point, maybe a Raptors offer like this becomes plausible:

Cavs - RJ Barrett, 25M wing from Team X, Toronto Raptors 1st
Raptors - Garland, Strus,
Team X - Quickley

Some options for another wing to Cleveland:
-Orlando: Caldwell-Pope and a pair of firsts (I like this one the best, Orlando gets the scoring guard they need and Cleveland gets a veteran 3+D wing and some firsts)
-San Antonio: Kelden Johnson + lotto protected 1st rounder
-Golden State: Sign and trade of Kuminga, if this works under the cap.

This isn't remotely plausible.

It's probably short a first if we put Garland in the 5 firsts sort of range, but 2/3 firsts + 2 decent rotation wings feels about right to me, unless there's some sort of straight up deal like Garland for Franz Wagner on the table, but that's hard to find, since most of the bad teams seems to have guards and not wings (partly why they're bad).

If Cleveland struggles in the playoffs, the obvious move is to go from 2 PGs and 2 Centers to a more conventional lineup, though they could first move Allen for say a wing and keep Garland, move one of their current wings for a backup 5 (or use the MLE or go with a cheap backup there and pray) and give that a go. They could also just run it back of course, but this thread is basically predicated on them wanting to make a change, and no great offer for Allen being on the table.