Chicago & Golden State: Can Chicago sweeten the pot enough to get Kuminga

[JMAC3]

Kuminga is basically a league average player according to EPM.
He is a 4 man that can't shoot the ball that is only paying 23 mpg.
What contract are the Bulls comfortable giving him?

Just from a building standpoint you are trading away probably your 2 best shooters in Vuc and White. Pairing him up with guys who aren't shooters in the young core of Matas, PWill and Giddey?

[drosestruts]

I'm sure the Bulls can do better for White if they made him available.

Agreed. I think a team like Orlando would overpay in terms of future picks for a guard just about to enter his prime like White. Maybe the Heat also, they're not really going anywhere and probably don't want to rebuild. Houston, Golden State, Lakers all make sense too. I think there would be a picks-based bidding war.

Potentially true - I just don't know how much the Bulls front office values picks.

The Caruso/Giddey trade suggests to me a preference to acquire young players already with some development.

NBA fans in general seem to love the hypothetical of a pick

The Bulls front office seems to trying to take some of that guesswork/unknown out by acquiring specific players over picks.

They tried to get Ball the trade deadline before acquiring him in the offseason

They traded for Giddey this offseason

Jalen Smith was their top free agent signing

They were rumored to want Kuminga at last year's deadline

The Bulls front office has a type, and it's not future picks (right or wrong)

Kuminga has shot better on the road the past 3 seasons - perhaps not playing half his games in San Francisco is the secret to unlocking his shooting

[MasterIchiro]

If I were a Bulls fan I'd be screaming for my front office to pick a lane.

They are straddling the fine line of competing now while building for the future. Hornets did that forever before dumping big contracts to Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward.

Bulls seem more likely to pursue a shuffle the deck trade of win-now pieces, known commodities.

Vuc for Wiggins so they can keep developing White with the younger players on the roster, same for Warriors with Kuminga with Moody, Pod etc.

[ChettheJet]

The original trade is good not great for the Bulls, they give GSW 2 starters and they get one back and one rotation player. Melton may or may not get on the floor, Payton No. I think they'd rather keep THT as a streaky scorer off the bench rather than have Payton or Melton as defensive guys when they get that from Ayo, Lonzo and Duarte. The guy they'd rather ship would be Javon Carter.

If Kuminga can be resigned, makes it a better deal, if Looney wants to come back and split time with Smith it's even better. But moving Vucevic is a positive, since they get a real PF they can afford to move Coby White. The next question is can they trade Lavine and what do they get back?

Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flip Vuc to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

The word you're looking for is counterproductive.

What's the point for the Bulls taking Wiggins for MORE money and he certainly picks up is option so it's more years than Vucevic. Plus they're down to one center.

[DonaldSanders]

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

Wiggins is back to being a plus player, he had 1 bad year while his father was dying of cancer. No he isn't an amazing player but the Warriors certainly aren't moving him for expirings.

[babyjax13]

Many poster seem to agree that Golden State is a quality landing spot for Vucevic, mostly for some combination of expiring and 2nds.

Making trades bigger is a great way to make them unrealistic, and yet I persist.

The Bulls FO seems to value young current NBA players (Giddey, Jaylen Smith as recent examples), more than future NBA players (picks). During trade rumors last deadline it was rumored the Bulls wanted Kuminga in a potential Caruso trade. I wouldn't be surprised if they try again for Kuminga after he and the Warriors seemed far apart on an extension.

But can the Bulls put together a compelling enough offer? Here's my attempt.


Chicago in: Jonathan Kuminga, De'Anthony Melton, Gary Payton 3, and Kevon Looney

Golden State in: Nikola Vucevic, Coby White, Torrey Craig, and Talen Horton-Tucker


Bulls:

Giddey/Ball/Carter/Melton
LaVine/Ayo/Terry
Williams/Phillips/Payton/Duarte
Kuminga/Buzelis
Smith/Looney

Bulls get a player they've been after for close to a year in Kuminga. He's another young player - which alings with their recent moves of getting younger. Both he and Giddey need to get paid this offseason but moving Vuc for expirins helps makes that possible. It's also key that the Bulls get Looney back in the deal as they'll need the center depth.

Bulls sink or swim with a very young team.


Warriors:

Curry/Podz/Moody
White/Hield/THT
Wiggins/Craig/Waters
Green/Anderson/Santos
Vucevic/TJD

Warriors upgrade their starting 2 and 5 spots while adding quality depth in 3&d veteran Torrey Craig and microwave scorer THT. Warriors want to win now. Are the pieces they got back enough to justify giving up their highest potential young piece in Kuminga?

White and Vuc are also under contract next year, so it's not like this only creates a 1-year window for the Warriors. They'll have these same cost controlled pieces in place for next year as well.

Curry-Coby-Hield can be the splash triplets

Thoughts?

I'd be very into this from a GS standpoint, but our FO has consistently refused to move our young guys for anything less than a superstar (until their value completely tanks and they end up trading them for a guy they let walk 9 months ago).

You can keep THT too, I think we'd rather just have the cap space to sign a better-fitting vet min guy.

Vuc/TJD
Draymond/SloMo/Gui
Wiggins/Moody/Craig
White/Hield/Waters
Curry/Podz

I'd assume moving THT is part of the appeal for Chicago

[Skybox]

Bulls will have a tough enough summer with Giddey’s crazy expectations…no need to double it with “special” K

I like Coby more than Kuminga. I like Wiggins more than either of them.

[drosestruts]

If I were a Bulls fan I'd be screaming for my front office to pick a lane.

They are straddling the fine line of competing now while building for the future. Hornets did that forever before dumping big contracts to Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward.

Bulls seem more likely to pursue a shuffle the deck trade of win-now pieces, known commodities.

Vuc for Wiggins so they can keep developing White with the younger players on the roster, same for Warriors with Kuminga with Moody, Pod etc.

The Bulls have picked a lane.

They traded Caruso (30) for Giddey (22)

They signed Jalen Smith (24) and THT (24)

They drafted Matas Buzelis (20)

They traded DeRozan (35) for an expiring and two future 2nd's

Every move they made was to get younger

The trade proposed in this thread is built around them acquiring Kuminga (22) for White (24) and Vucevic (34)

It fits the direction.

They have 5 lottery picks 24 and under

4 additional players 24 and under

They only have 2 players over 30 years old.

Does whether or not you tanked to build a young team matter if the end result is to have a young team and that's what you have?

[One_and_Done]

Why would the Bulls want to pay anything for Kuminga? They already have an overhyped forward who can't shoot or play D, but at least their one can pass and wants less money.

[Crazy-Canuck]

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

If they can't bundle Kuminga for an upgrade, why would they just let him walk?

He is restricted. The market will limit his settlement figure.

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

Yes, you are wrong.

Jk is not a sf, no idea why you would think this. Kerr has clearly stated he's a 4. Only jk thinks of himself as this scoring wing. They tried to accommodate, but he's been horrible as sf. His competition for minutes is tjd, not wiggins.

Wiggins has been our 2nd best player, they aren't going to salary dump him unless mjd decides to blow the team up.

[Chi town]

Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flgreatest.

to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

What?

Who would ever want Wiggins? That contract and his constant checking out? He’s unstable. He hasn’t played quality ball in a long time.

Dubs would love to trade Wiggins but there aren’t any takers. His contract will be used with BPod and their 1sts to get a star.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

What?

Who would ever want Wiggins? That contract and his constant checking out? He’s unstable. He hasn’t played quality ball in a long time.

Dubs would love to trade Wiggins but there aren’t any takers. His contract will be used with BPod and their 1sts to get a star.

Wiggins was dealing with the his father's health for the past 2 years. There's also the rumor that he was donating bone marrow during that time. This year he is slowly getting back to form as one of the better 2 way wings in the league of you've watched him. Dubs aren't trading him unless it's for an obvious upgrade. He's been their second best player this year.

[DonaldSanders]

What?

Who would ever want Wiggins? That contract and his constant checking out? He’s unstable. He hasn’t played quality ball in a long time.

Dubs would love to trade Wiggins but there aren’t any takers. His contract will be used with BPod and their 1sts to get a star.

He is literally playing quality ball this year. 58.9% TS, 2.9BPM on good defense.

[Chi town]

What?

Who would ever want Wiggins? That contract and his constant checking out? He’s unstable. He hasn’t played quality ball in a long time.

Dubs would love to trade Wiggins but there aren’t any takers. His contract will be used with BPod and their 1sts to get a star.

He is literally playing quality ball this year. 58.9% TS, 2.9BPM on good defense.

Dubs trust that continue?

His good play will be enough for them to make noise in the playoffs? He’s the only contract that gets you a star. No one is trading for Draymond.

[DonaldSanders]

Dubs trust that continue?

His good play will be enough for them to make noise in the playoffs? He’s the only contract that gets you a star. No one is trading for Draymond.

I'm cool trading him for a star, just not looking for lateral moves or expiring trades.

[Chi town]

Dubs trust that continue?

His good play will be enough for them to make noise in the playoffs? He’s the only contract that gets you a star. No one is trading for Draymond.

I'm cool trading him for a star, just not looking for lateral moves or expiring trades.

Neither is Steph. I believe they have this deadline or he will request a trade.

[giberish]

I'm sure the Bulls can do better for White if they made him available.

I tend to agree.

I'm higher on Ayo (and lower on JK) than most Warriors fans but I could probably be talked into Vuc/Ayo/Craig/protected future 1st for Melton/GP2/Kuminga

I roughly agree. I also don't think the Warriors defense holds up with old Curry + White + Vuc in the starting lineup. Ayo is a better Melton replacement style-wise and cheaper trade-value wise. Unfortunately I really doubt Chicago has interest in adding a 1st - even a protected one - in such a deal. A 2nd or two is probably the limit.

The other option is to move for White but not Vuc with something like Kunminga/Melton for White/Craig. Extra offense in the backcourt but hopefully enough front-court defense to hold up.

[DonaldSanders]

Dubs trust that continue?

His good play will be enough for them to make noise in the playoffs? He’s the only contract that gets you a star. No one is trading for Draymond.

I'm cool trading him for a star, just not looking for lateral moves or expiring trades.

I believe they have this deadline or he will request a trade.

You don't understand Steph if you think that.