Lakers and Jazz

[Daddy 801]

We’ve all seen a million trade proposals between these two teams. I don’t think most of them address where Utah is at and what they would need.

This is only going to happen if LA is looking to upgrade now. If they are thinking of tanking clearly they wouldn’t do a deal like this. Not really looking to debate anyone if LA should tank. There is a million threads about that already. Just giving what I believe is a good faith offer IF LA was looking to add quality players now.

LA send Russel, Hachimura, Vincent, Wood, Reddish, unprotects the 2027 pick (it’s top 4 protected), 2029 draft swap rights with LA receiving the third pick of the four between Utah/Minnesota/Cleveland/LA, and a 2031 FRP draft swap rights that if not conveyed turns into a 2031 second round draft pick.

Utah send Collins, Sexton, Collier, Juzang, Utahs 2025 2nd round pick, and a 2027 2nd round draft pick. (Also, Ubanks could be switched out for the two younger guys if getting a Center is of more value to them, or possibly Ubanks and one of the young guys and then LA has to add probably a guy worth a couple million they don’t want).

[wemby]

Would be horrific for the Lakers, just mortgaging your future for a whole lot of meh is the last thing they should do in their position.

[Texas Chuck]

seems just too big to properly evaluate. Russell, Vincent, Rui matches Collins/Sexton. Then figure out what incentive Utah needs. Feels like less than you are asking for. I mean 3 upside swings is too much for the level of player Utah is giving up.

I also wouldn't target Collins as LA. Maybe make it Kessler. Then more matching options become available and Utah can ask for slightly better return.

[Karmaloop]

What exactly is LA unprotecting a post-LeBron pick for?

[Daddy 801]

What exactly is LA unprotecting a post-LeBron pick for?

If they want win now players they get two in Collins and Sexton.

Again, people are already saying that LA shouldn’t trade anything for win now players. I am not looking to debate that. If I was the GM of LA I wouldn’t have given LeBron a no trade clause and would be blowing the whole thing up. But that’s besides the point.

IF LA wants win now players this is an option. And I’ve seen reports LA/LeBron want to upgrade. So let’s assume that LA is upgrading. The usual consensus is getting a player like LaVine will kill their depth. And personally I think Collins and Sexton would dramatically help them. And getting four young players (two now) and two early seconds will help LA build some young depth. Maybe LA then turns around and trades for Vucevic and those early seconds would help get him from the Bulls? Adding Sexton, Collins, and Vuc would give LA some really good players to surround LeBron and AD with.

I could see a reasonable counter offer from LA being if the protections removed on the 2027 pick benefit Utah by falling into the top four, then one or both draft swap rights are removed.

But if the removal of the protections don’t end up helping Utah, Utah retains both draft swap rights. Thats something I would expect to see as a counter offer instead of just saying LA shouldn’t trade for anyone. LA is gonna have to give up assets IF they want to win now.

If my offer is unreasonable to someone that’s fine. Value is subjective. But I think it’s the start of a potential deal that is reasonable though.

[Daddy 801]

seems just too big to properly evaluate. Russell, Vincent, Rui matches Collins/Sexton. Then figure out what incentive Utah needs. Feels like less than you are asking for. I mean 3 upside swings is too much for the level of player Utah is giving up.

I also wouldn't target Collins as LA. Maybe make it Kessler. Then more matching options become available and Utah can ask for slightly better return.

Ainge has been asking for two unprotected picks for Kessler. I don’t expect others to agree with that valuation. For where Utah is in the rebuild I get it though. So I’ve kept Kessler out if a deal with LA. Ainge probably wants the protections removed on 27 and an unprotected 29 pick. And LA hangs up the phone. With draft swap rights at least LA retains FRP’s in both years. And in 31 it could end up just being a second to Utah.


There is a scenario where all Utah gets for this trade is to move up in the 29 draft a couple spots and a second round draft pick. Which is why I could see a if then scenario. If protections removed convey Then Utah doesn’t get the draft swap rights in one or both years. Probably should have included that type of offer from the start. Protects LA from getting totally screwed.

[jbk1234]

Rui likely has more trade value than Collins league wide. I think Sexton, and to a far lesser extent Collins, have decent trade value, but these just aren't the type of guys for whom you trade unprotected 1sts.

They're both one-way players.

[zimpy27]

JHS
Unprotect 2027 FRP
2028 FRP unprotected swap

For

Kessler

[wemby]

What exactly is LA unprotecting a post-LeBron pick for?

If they want win now players they get two in Collins and Sexton.

The curious case of the team that is full of highly valued, purportedly "win now" players in their prime (Lauri, Kessler, Collins, Sexton, Clarkson), yet can't win. Oh the conundrum.

[Daddy 801]

Rui likely has more trade value than Collins league wide. I think Sexton, and to a far lesser extent Collins, have decent trade value, but these just aren't the type of guys for whom you trade unprotected 1sts.

They're both one-way players.

I didn’t include an unprotected first. Removing protections on a pick that I don’t think will benefit Utah because I don’t have LA being a top 4 pick in 2027 unless they blow it up. And this proposal is under the assumption they aren’t blowing it up. If LeBron retires after next year LA will look to quickly use that cap space to get a good player. AD with one other good player (possibly two with how much cap space LeBron takes up) will be good enough to keep LA from tanking. Again IF LA wants to get better and compete they shouldn’t do this trade. And if LeBron doesn’t retire I still have them good enough to stay out of the 2027 top four picks.

So Utah gets one draft swap they move up probably 5-8 spots and a 50/50 shot at another swap that if not conveyed is a 2nd round pick. Not exactly a haul for Utah in the worst case scenario. And also why I proposed the What If scenario above of the swaps not conveying if Utah does benefit from the 2027 being unprotected.

[Daddy 801]

What exactly is LA unprotecting a post-LeBron pick for?

If they want win now players they get two in Collins and Sexton.

The curious case of the team that is full of highly valued, purportedly "win now" players in their prime (Lauri, Kessler, Collins, Sexton, Clarkson), yet can't win. Oh the conundrum.

Clarkson is washed. He is our highest volume usage player and he is killing the team. Great for the tank. Would trade him for any second round pick. Kessler is developing and no where near what should be his prime. And Lauri is out what seems like half the time with injuries that I am sure are half way bogus because Utah wants to tank. Collins and Sexton are basically the only two guys who are consistently putting up good efficient numbers.

As long as Clarkson and Keyonte are our two highest volume scorers Utah ain’t winning a damn thing. And for now that’s fine.

[SlimShady83]

Kessler alone isn't worth 2 pics, but if you throw in Sexton In then I would do the 2, I'm high on Kessler. And we get something for DLO rather then losing him

One of trade rumors I remember hearing was.

DLo, JHS 2 pics for Kessler/Sexton.

Remember someone saying Utah wanted JHS at one stage. The reason it didn't fall through was because Lakers didn't want to do the 2 pics or make them protected etc

Kessler is perfect fit and centre for next 10 years

I just want Kessler real bad. Come off the bench when Bron is here, start when he gone, keeps AD happy he gets help etc

[jbk1234]

Rui likely has more trade value than Collins league wide. I think Sexton, and to a far lesser extent Collins, have decent trade value, but these just aren't the type of guys for whom you trade unprotected 1sts.

They're both one-way players.

I didn’t include an unprotected first. Removing protections on a pick that I don’t think will benefit Utah because I don’t have LA being a top 4 pick in 2027 unless they blow it up. And this proposal is under the assumption they aren’t blowing it up. If LeBron retires after next year LA will look to quickly use that cap space to get a good player. AD with one other good player (possibly two with how much cap space LeBron takes up) will be good enough to keep LA from tanking. Again IF LA wants to get better and compete they shouldn’t do this trade. And if LeBron doesn’t retire I still have them good enough to stay out of the 2027 top four picks.

So Utah gets one draft swap they move up probably 5-8 spots and a 50/50 shot at another swap that if not conveyed is a 2nd round pick. Not exactly a haul for Utah in the worst case scenario. And also why I proposed the What If scenario above of the swaps not conveying if Utah does benefit from the 2027 being unprotected.

I mean the Jazz may very well get a top 4 protected pick this year. In addition to Sexton and Collins, they have Kessler and Lauri.

[axeman23]

This is like a Danny Ainge offer that gets laughed off the phone. Significantly too much asked for "winning players" who historically don't have a great record of, you know, playing WINNING basketball. LA is better off going scorched earth tank rather than take this lukewarm bowl of mediocrity at this cost.

[R-DAWG]

I don't think this version of the Lakers is worth investing more future draft capital into. And the main reason is Lebron does not looks like he is no longer a top-10 player.

In 2023, when they did the Westbrook trade they still could fall back on Lebon and AD being good enough to beat any team in a series. And they got a great run out of it. This team does not have that to fall back on.

The strategy should be ride out this year while looking to improve in the margins to better position themselves to get into the 7-8 slot and into the playoffs. But I think we are closer to Lebron retiring/cashing out on AD than pushing more chips into the middle of the table.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't think this version of the Lakers is worth investing more future draft capital into. And the main reason is Lebron does not looks like he is no longer a top-10 player.

I think ultimately you are probably right. But I still think LA is going to. And I don't know that I have an issue with it. Yeah the odds of winning 4 series seems long. But if you aren't going to try and shore this roster up, you should be trading AD for the ransom you could get.

[Karmaloop]

If they want win now players they get two in Collins and Sexton.

An undersized combo guard who can't play defense and a big that Jazz fans are ready to bury on the bench isn't exactly what I'd call a winning package. The Jazz really only have 2 players of substantial value: Lauri Markkanen and Walker Kessler. And only one of them has substantial value.

[mg]

If they want win now players they get two in Collins and Sexton.

The curious case of the team that is full of highly valued, purportedly "win now" players in their prime (Lauri, Kessler, Collins, Sexton, Clarkson), yet can't win. Oh the conundrum.

Clarkson is washed. He is our highest volume usage player and he is killing the team. Great for the tank. Would trade him for any second round pick. Kessler is developing and no where near what should be his prime. And Lauri is out what seems like half the time with injuries that I am sure are half way bogus because Utah wants to tank. Collins and Sexton are basically the only two guys who are consistently putting up good efficient numbers.

As long as Clarkson and Keyonte are our two highest volume scorers Utah ain’t winning a damn thing. And for now that’s fine.

Agreed you would actually have to watch the Jazz to see what they are doing (and I don't recommend anyone watch such blatant tanking). Lauri has sat with "back" injuries. Hardy limits Sexton's minutes and then calls a timeout when he's going in for the winning layup. Big minutes to rookies such as Cody Williams and Collier. Collins is only getting big minutes because of the Taylor Hendricks injury. Allowing Keyonte and Clarkson to take most of the shots. Last game those 2 combined for 26 shots while Lauri only took 9.

FWIW I don't think any team should be trading FRP's for roleplayers. Miami just got burnt hard dealing a FRP for Rozier last season. He's a pretty good but this level of player is not a needle mover. I'm a John Collins fan but not sure he's that much better than Rui tbh.