Beal Street, Memphis (with Miami)

[zimpy27]

I’m not a Lavine fan but the value difference is more than $7m. Lavine is better and more durable than Beal at this stage. Add in Beal’s NTC and his deal is so toxic. The Bulls have had zero success moving Lavine due to his contract, and I’m not convinced they’d do any better than expirings or shorter/smaller deals from a team like DET with cap space remaining.

Last 2 seasons: Beal 80 games, LaVine 58 games
Last 3 seasons: Beal 130 games, LaVine 135 games

Seem as durable as each other and play wise they are fairly identical.

I don't think their values should be more than a future FRP apart.

You forget a couple of things - Beal has a no trade clause and a 15% kicker. So this year, alone, Beal is going to earn (after the trade) $14.5 million more than LaVine. And then, if you want to move on from him, you have to get his approval, (and that's not likely to be a rebuilding team who might offer something for an expiring contract like his, two years from now) and he gets ANOTHER 15% kicker.

LaVine is not valuable, at all, but he's more valuable than Beal.

Beal already above 35% of cap, I don't think the kicker applies.

[BBallFreak]

Last 2 seasons: Beal 80 games, LaVine 58 games
Last 3 seasons: Beal 130 games, LaVine 135 games

Seem as durable as each other and play wise they are fairly identical.

I don't think their values should be more than a future FRP apart.

You forget a couple of things - Beal has a no trade clause and a 15% kicker. So this year, alone, Beal is going to earn (after the trade) $14.5 million more than LaVine. And then, if you want to move on from him, you have to get his approval, (and that's not likely to be a rebuilding team who might offer something for an expiring contract like his, two years from now) and he gets ANOTHER 15% kicker.

LaVine is not valuable, at all, but he's more valuable than Beal.

Beal already above 35% of cap, I don't think the kicker applies.

You might want to look into that

[zimpy27]

You forget a couple of things - Beal has a no trade clause and a 15% kicker. So this year, alone, Beal is going to earn (after the trade) $14.5 million more than LaVine. And then, if you want to move on from him, you have to get his approval, (and that's not likely to be a rebuilding team who might offer something for an expiring contract like his, two years from now) and he gets ANOTHER 15% kicker.

LaVine is not valuable, at all, but he's more valuable than Beal.

Beal already above 35% of cap, I don't think the kicker applies.

You might want to look into that

Even if it does count, he could simply waive it

[BBallFreak]

Beal already above 35% of cap, I don't think the kicker applies.

You might want to look into that

Even if it does count, he could simply waive it

Why would he?

[BarbaGrizz]

Beal´s contract is the worst contract in the history of the NBA, it would take at least three unproctected 1st round picks to just unload him

[winforlose]

Beal already above 35% of cap, I don't think the kicker applies.

You might want to look into that

Even if it does count, he could simply waive it

That is a LOT of money to waive. You are talking about 15% of 50 million. Why would he give back 7.5 million dollars?

[zimpy27]

You might want to look into that

Even if it does count, he could simply waive it

That is a LOT of money to waive. You are talking about 15% of 50 million. Why would he give back 7.5 million dollars?

Because he only gets it if moved, which he's happy to do. It's not taking money from him, it's waiving the bonus he would get if he was moved.

[winforlose]

Even if it does count, he could simply waive it

That is a LOT of money to waive. You are talking about 15% of 50 million. Why would he give back 7.5 million dollars?

Because he only gets it if moved, which he's happy to do. It's not taking money from him, it's waiving the bonus he would get if he was moved.

What about “I hold all the card” makes you think he is a philanthropist? Beal could sit on the bench, give minimal effort, make 150 million, then get at least an MLE afterward. He has no incentive to move, much less to give back 7.5 million to do so.

[zimpy27]

That is a LOT of money to waive. You are talking about 15% of 50 million. Why would he give back 7.5 million dollars?

Because he only gets it if moved, which he's happy to do. It's not taking money from him, it's waiving the bonus he would get if he was moved.

What about “I hold all the card” makes you think he is a philanthropist? Beal could sit on the bench, give minimal effort, make 150 million, then get at least an MLE afterward. He has no incentive to move, much less to give back 7.5 million to do so.

Yes he could do that. He doesn't hold all the cards though, otherwise he'd be starting right now.

Most people want to be wanted even if they do hold an NTC or ability o waive a kicker.

The whole point is that Beal would have to want to make the move for his career in NBA. I doubt he wants to be the next Westbrook.

[winforlose]

Because he only gets it if moved, which he's happy to do. It's not taking money from him, it's waiving the bonus he would get if he was moved.

What about “I hold all the card” makes you think he is a philanthropist? Beal could sit on the bench, give minimal effort, make 150 million, then get at least an MLE afterward. He has no incentive to move, much less to give back 7.5 million to do so.

Yes he could do that. He doesn't hold all the cards though, otherwise he'd be starting right now.

Most people want to be wanted even if they do hold an NTC or ability o waive a kicker.

The whole point is that Beal would have to want to make the move for his career in NBA. I doubt he wants to be the next Westbrook.

Making three assumptions.

1. The Suns keep him on the bench after the trade deadline.

2. He cares enough about how he is being treated to move himself and his family for the second time in the last 3 years.

3. The Suns are in fact better with him on the bench. If not then he gets the last laugh.

[zimpy27]

What about “I hold all the card” makes you think he is a philanthropist? Beal could sit on the bench, give minimal effort, make 150 million, then get at least an MLE afterward. He has no incentive to move, much less to give back 7.5 million to do so.

Yes he could do that. He doesn't hold all the cards though, otherwise he'd be starting right now.

Most people want to be wanted even if they do hold an NTC or ability o waive a kicker.

The whole point is that Beal would have to want to make the move for his career in NBA. I doubt he wants to be the next Westbrook.

Making three assumptions.

1. The Suns keep him on the bench after the trade deadline.

2. He cares enough about how he is being treated to move himself and his family for the second time in the last 3 years.

3. The Suns are in fact better with him on the bench. If not then he gets the last laugh.

What would it matter if Suns start him after the deadline? The information he has is he is on the bench before the deadline and before the deadline is when he'd be traded. After doesn't matter. So no assumption there. Number 3 is also irrelevant as long as they keep him on bench up until deadline.

Yes, number 2 is needed to waive the NTC at which point I expect he waived the kicker too.

[winforlose]

Yes he could do that. He doesn't hold all the cards though, otherwise he'd be starting right now.

Most people want to be wanted even if they do hold an NTC or ability o waive a kicker.

The whole point is that Beal would have to want to make the move for his career in NBA. I doubt he wants to be the next Westbrook.

Making three assumptions.

1. The Suns keep him on the bench after the trade deadline.

2. He cares enough about how he is being treated to move himself and his family for the second time in the last 3 years.

3. The Suns are in fact better with him on the bench. If not then he gets the last laugh.

What would it matter if Suns start him after the deadline? The information he has is he is on the bench before the deadline and before the deadline is when he'd be traded. After doesn't matter. So no assumption there. Number 3 is also irrelevant as long as they keep him on bench up until deadline.

Yes, number 2 is needed to waive the NTC at which point I expect he waived the kicker too.

1. He cannot be the next Westbrook if he returns to the starting lineup.

2. He has no incentive to be traded if he can go back to the starting lineup after the deadline.

3. The Suns only keep him on the bench if that is best for them long term. If he is starter quality then continuing to try and make him uncomfortable only helps in the Summer, and may very well cost the Suns a shot at a playoff spot.

My point is he isn’t stupid. He has tremendous power over the Suns and the Suns only card is to make him as uncomfortable as possible. If he wants to stay then the Suns are making him less willing to cooperate long term and once the deadline has passed the goal changes from making him leave to making it work.

[zimpy27]

Making three assumptions.

1. The Suns keep him on the bench after the trade deadline.

2. He cares enough about how he is being treated to move himself and his family for the second time in the last 3 years.

3. The Suns are in fact better with him on the bench. If not then he gets the last laugh.

What would it matter if Suns start him after the deadline? The information he has is he is on the bench before the deadline and before the deadline is when he'd be traded. After doesn't matter. So no assumption there. Number 3 is also irrelevant as long as they keep him on bench up until deadline.

Yes, number 2 is needed to waive the NTC at which point I expect he waived the kicker too.

1. He cannot be the next Westbrook if he returns to the starting lineup.

2. He has no incentive to be traded if he can go back to the starting lineup after the deadline.

3. The Suns only keep him on the bench if that is best for them long term. If he is starter quality then continuing to try and make him uncomfortable only helps in the Summer, and may very well cost the Suns a shot at a playoff spot.

My point is he isn’t stupid. He has tremendous power over the Suns and the Suns only card is to make him as uncomfortable as possible. If he wants to stay then the Suns are making him less willing to cooperate long term and once the deadline has passed the goal changes from making him leave to making it work.

He really has no power over the Suns other than where he can be traded. He has power over his own destination, which may seem scary but it's not really.

They moved him to the bench because it made sense and they are playing better since then.

[winforlose]

What would it matter if Suns start him after the deadline? The information he has is he is on the bench before the deadline and before the deadline is when he'd be traded. After doesn't matter. So no assumption there. Number 3 is also irrelevant as long as they keep him on bench up until deadline.

Yes, number 2 is needed to waive the NTC at which point I expect he waived the kicker too.

1. He cannot be the next Westbrook if he returns to the starting lineup.

2. He has no incentive to be traded if he can go back to the starting lineup after the deadline.

3. The Suns only keep him on the bench if that is best for them long term. If he is starter quality then continuing to try and make him uncomfortable only helps in the Summer, and may very well cost the Suns a shot at a playoff spot.

My point is he isn’t stupid. He has tremendous power over the Suns and the Suns only card is to make him as uncomfortable as possible. If he wants to stay then the Suns are making him less willing to cooperate long term and once the deadline has passed the goal changes from making him leave to making it work.

He really has no power over the Suns other than where he can be traded. He has power over his own destination, which may seem scary but it's not really.

They moved him to the bench because it made sense and they are playing better since then.

Just like Jimmy Butler has no power over the Heat. It is 50+ million dollars and he can always be a locker room cancer anytime he wants. They cannot trade him, cutting him costs them 3 years of max money and there is nothing to do about it. If you truly believe players have no leverage and are just helpless than I don’t know what league you have been watching.

P.S he has more power than over where to be traded. He has the power to NOT be traded at all.

[zimpy27]

1. He cannot be the next Westbrook if he returns to the starting lineup.

2. He has no incentive to be traded if he can go back to the starting lineup after the deadline.

3. The Suns only keep him on the bench if that is best for them long term. If he is starter quality then continuing to try and make him uncomfortable only helps in the Summer, and may very well cost the Suns a shot at a playoff spot.

My point is he isn’t stupid. He has tremendous power over the Suns and the Suns only card is to make him as uncomfortable as possible. If he wants to stay then the Suns are making him less willing to cooperate long term and once the deadline has passed the goal changes from making him leave to making it work.

He really has no power over the Suns other than where he can be traded. He has power over his own destination, which may seem scary but it's not really.

They moved him to the bench because it made sense and they are playing better since then.

Just like Jimmy Butler has no power over the Heat. It is 50+ million dollars and he can always be a locker room cancer anytime he wants. They cannot trade him, cutting him costs them 3 years of max money and there is nothing to do about it. If you truly believe players have no leverage and are just helpless than I don’t know what league you have been watching.

P.S he has more power than over where to be traded. He has the power to NOT be traded at all.

Jimmy has some control over destination, he can narrow down the list but not as much control over his destination as Beal.

Yes, that why I say he has power over his destination or where he can be traded.