Utah-SAS

[WinterSoldier]

Utah trades: Sexton, Cle 25 1st.

SAS trades: Collins, Atl 25 1st.

The Jazz get a better pick in the 15-20 range. The Jazz are moving up 10-15 spots in the draft to help further the rebuild.

The Spurs get a guard that can come in for Paul and be a consistent second scorer behind Wemby. The Spurs will still have multiple 1st to either trade or continuing to build their roster.

[jbk1234]

If I'm the Spurs, I wait until the deadline to evaluate this.

[WinterSoldier]

If I'm the Spurs, I wait until the deadline to evaluate this.

That's fair I think the Jazz can wait on Sexton.

[wemby]

If I'm the Spurs, I wait until the deadline to evaluate this.

No need to wait, Spurs won´t trade back from the late lottery - middle of the first round to the end of it, just because of Sexton. This is horrendous for the Spurs. If they wanted Sexton they'll probably offer a few SRPs and otherwise the Jazz can happily keep him, PG sized shooting guards are dime a dozen.

[wemby]

The Spurs get a guard that can come in for Paul and be a consistent second scorer behind Wemby. The Spurs will still have multiple 1st to either trade or continuing to build their roster.

Just because Spurs have more assets doesn't mean they'll splurge on a position they can address for much, much cheaper. Not a Spurs move at all.

[jbk1234]

If I'm the Spurs, I wait until the deadline to evaluate this.

No need to wait, Spurs won´t trade back from the late lottery - middle of the first round to the end of it, just because of Sexton. This is horrendous for the Spurs. If they wanted Sexton they'll probably offer a few SRPs and otherwise the Jazz can happily keep him, PG sized shooting guards are dime a dozen.

I'm a bit skeptical that the Hawks end up in the lottery.

[wemby]

If I'm the Spurs, I wait until the deadline to evaluate this.

No need to wait, Spurs won´t trade back from the late lottery - middle of the first round to the end of it, just because of Sexton. This is horrendous for the Spurs. If they wanted Sexton they'll probably offer a few SRPs and otherwise the Jazz can happily keep him, PG sized shooting guards are dime a dozen.

I'm a bit skeptical that the Hawks end up in the lottery.

Maybe they do, maybe they don´t, but theyŕe still going to be in the late teens.... say between 10 (if they suffer multiple injuries) and 18 (if they remain healthy and play at 100% of their abilities), but probably in the 12-16 range (with a fair degree of certainty). Cavs pick will be in the 28-30 range, so we're talking about going back like 15 spots on average. That's HUGE.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, this is another really good fitting target for SAS. And one that can be renegotiated and extended in September so could become a long term piece/affordable contract for a heavy minute sixth man if Vassell comes back around..

I do agree this makes more sense in a few weeks. A run for Atlanta, and you probably prefer to get the Denver/Orlando first. Atlanta loses a few in a row and SAS should pass.

[WinterSoldier]

The Spurs get a guard that can come in for Paul and be a consistent second scorer behind Wemby. The Spurs will still have multiple 1st to either trade or continuing to build their roster.

Just because Spurs have more assets doesn't mean they'll splurge on a position they can address for much, much cheaper. Not a Spurs move at all.

I think you're a little dramatic, but that's your perception.

[wemby]

The Spurs get a guard that can come in for Paul and be a consistent second scorer behind Wemby. The Spurs will still have multiple 1st to either trade or continuing to build their roster.

Just because Spurs have more assets doesn't mean they'll splurge on a position they can address for much, much cheaper. Not a Spurs move at all.

I think you're a little dramatic, but that's your perception.

No, it's you who is being dramatic with a completely unrealistic return for a player type that time again has proven to be one of the least valuable archetypes int he league. Sexton is a shooting guard in a point guards body, he's a negative on defense and isn't a playmaker. Even on the better side of that archetype (say, Herro) they don't get you a star in return, but you can also look at the Blazers struggles to get anything back for Simons, or Gary Trent Jr's lack of market in free agency. Others include Clarkson, Cole Anthony, Jaden Hardy, Cam Thomas, etc, all with a higher perceived value than reality indicates. He's just not that valuable.

[Chinook]

I don't actually hate the premise, though I don't agree on the value. I would only want to do a deal like this if one of Jones/Paul is going out in a connected deal that brings in a vet forward. Then you could bring in a buyout guy to compete with Bassey at backup center and have a pretty good rotation.

I like Jones a lot, though, and I don't see getting a small guard by themselves to be great value. That's why I'm not big on trading a mid-first in a good draft to make it happen.

[SkyHook]

Just because Spurs have more assets doesn't mean they'll splurge on a position they can address for much, much cheaper. Not a Spurs move at all.

I think you're a little dramatic, but that's your perception.

No, it's you who is being dramatic with a completely unrealistic return for a player type that time again has proven to be one of the least valuable archetypes int he league. Sexton is a shooting guard in a point guards body, he's a negative on defense and isn't a playmaker. Even on the better side of that archetype (say, Herro) they don't get you a star in return, but you can also look at the Blazers struggles to get anything back for Simons, or Gary Trent Jr's lack of market in free agency. Others include Clarkson, Cole Anthony, Jaden Hardy, Cam Thomas, etc, all with a higher perceived value than reality indicates. He's just not that valuable.

Did I miss where someone was asking for a star in return?

[wemby]

I think you're a little dramatic, but that's your perception.

No, it's you who is being dramatic with a completely unrealistic return for a player type that time again has proven to be one of the least valuable archetypes int he league. Sexton is a shooting guard in a point guards body, he's a negative on defense and isn't a playmaker. Even on the better side of that archetype (say, Herro) they don't get you a star in return, but you can also look at the Blazers struggles to get anything back for Simons, or Gary Trent Jr's lack of market in free agency. Others include Clarkson, Cole Anthony, Jaden Hardy, Cam Thomas, etc, all with a higher perceived value than reality indicates. He's just not that valuable.

Did I miss where someone was asking for a star in return?

I didn't say that, I was talking about the higher end of that archetype (Herro) doesn't get you an equivalent player of a more sought after archetype, and you can apply that for lesser players in that mold so even if Sexton is quite good in his role return will not be great (nowhere near unprotected possible lottery pick in a good draft).

[SkyHook]

No, it's you who is being dramatic with a completely unrealistic return for a player type that time again has proven to be one of the least valuable archetypes int he league. Sexton is a shooting guard in a point guards body, he's a negative on defense and isn't a playmaker. Even on the better side of that archetype (say, Herro) they don't get you a star in return, but you can also look at the Blazers struggles to get anything back for Simons, or Gary Trent Jr's lack of market in free agency. Others include Clarkson, Cole Anthony, Jaden Hardy, Cam Thomas, etc, all with a higher perceived value than reality indicates. He's just not that valuable.

Did I miss where someone was asking for a star in return?

I didn't say that, I was talking about the higher end of that archetype (Herro) doesn't get you an equivalent player of a more sought after archetype, and you can apply that for lesser players in that mold so even if Sexton is quite good in his role return will not be great (nowhere near unprotected possible lottery pick in a good draft).

Archetype or no, the move from Zach Collins to Collin Sexton is a massive upgrade. Yes, Sexton is a horrid defender (11th percentile D-EPM), but let's not pretend that Collins is significantly better (17th percentile D-EPM). They're night and day on the offensive end (88th percentile vs 48th). And if you want to talk about a "superior" big man archetype, Collins is an atrocious rim finisher and anemic on the defensive boards for his size. The two contracts are within about 10% over the same length, so there's no real financial incentive.

So yes, there is an expectation of compensation for such an upgrade. I understand the uncertainty regarding the ATL pick potentially ending up in the lottery, but if those exchanged picks were locked in at #30 and #17 respectively, then that's certainly in the realm of appropriate value.

[wemby]

Archetype or no, the move from Zach Collins to Collin Sexton is a massive upgrade. Yes, Sexton is a horrid defender (11th percentile D-EPM), but let's not pretend that Collins is significantly better (17th percentile D-EPM). They're night and day on the offensive end (88th percentile vs 48th). And if you want to talk about a "superior" big man archetype, Collins is an atrocious rim finisher and anemic on the defensive boards for his size. The two contracts are within about 10% over the same length, so there's no real financial incentive.

So yes, there is an expectation of compensation for such an upgrade. I understand the uncertainty regarding the ATL pick potentially ending up in the lottery, but if those exchanged picks were locked in at #30 and #17 respectively, then that's certainly in the realm of appropriate value.

Collins plays center and his contract expires next season, Sexton being better than him doesn't mean he's worth an unprotected, potential lottery pick (for reference, teams 11-16 right now have between 20 and 21 wins, so claiming that pick is outside the lottery is disingenuous). Spurs need to use those assets to find themselves a two way 2nd / 3rd guy long term, not a spark plug off the bench for the short term. If they want Sexton they can target him in 26 free agency.

[One_and_Done]

I doubt Sexton is the guy to spend picks on. If Spurs are making a move, they can do better.

[balsamic_ducks]

Guys like sexton are a dime a dozen. The spurs should just wait and sign a guy like Gary Trent Jr to a deal in the offseason and save their assets. Trent even plays a little defense unlike sexton