GSW/BKN/WAS/PHI

[nykballa2k4]

I don't know what you mean by null and void, but Johnson has $4.5M in unlikely incentives, and Looney has $1M. That's $3.5M you have to add to the Warrior apron total. That puts them $3.7M over their hard cap.

if Looney is on the Wizards, does that still apply?
Also -- what does it technically matter if by seasons end if Cam johnson gets his max of unlikely incentives? Does the team move to Seattle? Do they forfeit picks?

Unless there is a real reason like -- the trade is illegal, this is a non-issue.

None of that matters. This only applies to the Warriors and their hard cap at the end of the trade. It doesn't apply to matching salaries either, but after the trade, when the Warrior team salary is computed, unlikely incentives are added in. When that happens they can't be over the hard cap. So, in effect, Johnson's salary becomes $27,000,000 for that purpose only.

The trade may look legal, but from the Warriors side they can't do it because it puts them over the hard cap. It's very difficult for the Warriors to trade for Johnson.

okay, so you are already subtracting Looneys incentives.

[JKiddy]

I think he said it was 2 unprotected 1sts which is reasonable in order to salvage the future of this iteration of the Warriors since Jimmy is not coming there. Cam is better than Jimmy right now and for the next 3 seasons obviously.

I do not think 3 1sts is reasonable unless they were protected which he didn't mention. Maybe I am lost here.

[giberish]

I think he said it was 2 unprotected 1sts which is reasonable in order to salvage the future of this iteration of the Warriors since Jimmy is not coming there. Cam is better than Jimmy right now and for the next 3 seasons obviously.

I do not think 3 1sts is reasonable unless they were protected which he didn't mention. Maybe I am lost here.

Cam Johnson isn't 'salvaging the future of the Warriors'. Cam Johnson is helping the Warriors chase the 8th seed this year and next (beyond that Curry will have fallen off too much for Cam to matter). Giving up unprotected likely lottery picks to chase the 8th seed for a year or two is always a very bad idea, no matter how famous any players on your roster are.

The most GS can offer for any win-now moves is Kunminga and a top-4 protected 2025 1st. Guys that aren't available for that incentive (and the salaries can be made to work reasonably) aren't an option for GS.

[vincecarter4pres]

Cam Johnson is worth nothing close to this. I have this a massive overpay by the Warriors. He likely doesn't even get them into the top 6 and now you've given up 3 unprotected 1sts (two of them post Curry/Draymond)? Yikes no.

Well, break it down that they’re trading a bunch of spare parts and 3 unprotected picks(‘25, ‘27 and ‘29) for Cam J and Sharpe, and then regaining their ‘30 unprotected.

So it’s 2 unprotected picks.

I still think this isn’t it for GSW and is an overpay because of how far out two of those picks are, and how likely they are to be a bad team those years because their core is in AARP mode, but it should be clarified for transparency.

[vincecarter4pres]

There’s no world cam j is worth 3 picks especially not from gsw post steph.

No one is giving 2 1sts. Bkn is going to settle for 1.

They’ll probably settle for one, if one is a guaranteed lotto 1st. Something where OKC sends the best of their ‘25 or ‘26, or even ‘27 picks, with the Nets having complete control over the swaps, so OKC can’t then trade the projected more valuable ones in future deals without their approval.

And then they’ll probably still get back a prospect like Topic and/or at least a solid young guy like Wiggins, who would be expendable at that point.

[vincecarter4pres]

Cam Johnson is worth nothing close to this. I have this a massive overpay by the Warriors. He likely doesn't even get them into the top 6 and now you've given up 3 unprotected 1sts (two of them post Curry/Draymond)? Yikes no.

Well, overall, the sticking point, AKA the reason Cam johnson is not dealt yet, is Nets are looking for an overpay. I don't think they take just 1 FRP.

Cam J isn’t dealt yet because we’re almost two weeks away from the deadline and there’s a behind the scenes bidding war.

He’s probably the most coveted current trade block candidate in the league, aside from a surprise star trade, or the very complex Jimmy Butler situation.

Think a lot of people are going to either eat crow in a couple weeks, or they’re going to back track their asses off when he’s dealt for a really solid, yet reasonable return.

Or he remains a Net, because there isn’t a true rush to trade a guy who will still return really good value on draft night. Maybe better so, when a team who covets him such as OKC or Sacto could be sitting on something like pick 7 or 10 overall, and there’s a guy the Nets love “sliding”, and presto, deal amendable from all sides, Stepein Rules easier to navigate.

[vincecarter4pres]

I think he said it was 2 unprotected 1sts which is reasonable in order to salvage the future of this iteration of the Warriors since Jimmy is not coming there. Cam is better than Jimmy right now and for the next 3 seasons obviously.

I do not think 3 1sts is reasonable unless they were protected which he didn't mention. Maybe I am lost here.

Cam Johnson isn't 'salvaging the future of the Warriors'. Cam Johnson is helping the Warriors chase the 8th seed this year and next (beyond that Curry will have fallen off too much for Cam to matter). Giving up unprotected likely lottery picks to chase the 8th seed for a year or two is always a very bad idea, no matter how famous any players on your roster are.

The most GS can offer for any win-now moves is Kunminga and a top-4 protected 2025 1st. Guys that aren't available for that incentive (and the salaries can be made to work reasonably) aren't an option for GS.

Agreed.

For a team in GSW’s exact position, this is a very shortsighted and unrealistic move.

[vincecarter4pres]

Even if Isiah Thomas was advising the Warriors (as opposed to the Suns) I think he'd have issues with this.

3 unprotected 1sts - likely with 2 in the lottery and possibly all 3 - is insane.

If Cam Johnson is getting 3 1sts it would be 3 picks like the ones Utah traded to Phoenix - and IMO even that's a reach. IMO both the 2027 and 2029 1sts are individually at least as valuable as those 3 put together.

Again, just for transparency, this is 3 unprotected firsts for Cam J, Sharpe and one of their own further out unprotected 1sts returned.

Why deflect that obvious aspect, to make this seem even more lopsided to enhance hyperbolic retorts?

Asking for a friend.

[nykballa2k4]

Cam Johnson is worth nothing close to this. I have this a massive overpay by the Warriors. He likely doesn't even get them into the top 6 and now you've given up 3 unprotected 1sts (two of them post Curry/Draymond)? Yikes no.

Well, overall, the sticking point, AKA the reason Cam johnson is not dealt yet, is Nets are looking for an overpay. I don't think they take just 1 FRP.

Cam J isn’t dealt yet because we’re almost two weeks away from the deadline and there’s a behind the scenes bidding war.

He’s probably the most coveted current trade block candidate in the league, aside from a surprise star trade, or the very complex Jimmy Butler situation.

Think a lot of people are going to either eat crow in a couple weeks, or they’re going to back track their asses off when he’s dealt for a really solid, yet reasonable return.

Or he remains a Net, because there isn’t a true rush to trade a guy who will still return really good value on draft night. Maybe better so, when a team who covets him such as OKC or Sacto could be sitting on something like pick 7 or 10 overall, and there’s a guy the Nets love “sliding”, and presto, deal amendable from all sides, Stepein Rules easier to navigate.

I mean the price seems pretty well set. I will be surprised if it's a nondescript FRP and matching contract. I will be less surprised if it's a legit prospect with pick(s) attached.

[xdrta+]

if Looney is on the Wizards, does that still apply?
Also -- what does it technically matter if by seasons end if Cam johnson gets his max of unlikely incentives? Does the team move to Seattle? Do they forfeit picks?

Unless there is a real reason like -- the trade is illegal, this is a non-issue.

None of that matters. This only applies to the Warriors and their hard cap at the end of the trade. It doesn't apply to matching salaries either, but after the trade, when the Warrior team salary is computed, unlikely incentives are added in. When that happens they can't be over the hard cap. So, in effect, Johnson's salary becomes $27,000,000 for that purpose only.

The trade may look legal, but from the Warriors side they can't do it because it puts them over the hard cap. It's very difficult for the Warriors to trade for Johnson.

okay, so you are already subtracting Looneys incentives.

Of course. Looney has a $1M unlikely incentive. This trade can't work unless the Warriors dump another $4M+ in salary to stay under the hard cap and sign one replacement player to get back to 14.

[nykballa2k4]

None of that matters. This only applies to the Warriors and their hard cap at the end of the trade. It doesn't apply to matching salaries either, but after the trade, when the Warrior team salary is computed, unlikely incentives are added in. When that happens they can't be over the hard cap. So, in effect, Johnson's salary becomes $27,000,000 for that purpose only.

The trade may look legal, but from the Warriors side they can't do it because it puts them over the hard cap. It's very difficult for the Warriors to trade for Johnson.

okay, so you are already subtracting Looneys incentives.

Of course. Looney has a $1M unlikely incentive. This trade can't work unless the Warriors dump another $4M+ in salary to stay under the hard cap and sign one replacement player to get back to 14.

Eh, they just need to add Waters and one other min guy (Santos) and they are there...
Funny enough, the day I told you the trade machine was not showing any issues, it updated that night, and now it includes the unlikely incentives. Probably was in the works for a while and it was coincidence, but I am still giving you all the credit

Now, I don't know how all of this impacts the back-fill. There is probably a path with 2-ways.
Not sure if he can be moved, but also Hield is a contact that could be broken up if the right situation were available.

[vincecarter4pres]

Well, overall, the sticking point, AKA the reason Cam johnson is not dealt yet, is Nets are looking for an overpay. I don't think they take just 1 FRP.

Cam J isn’t dealt yet because we’re almost two weeks away from the deadline and there’s a behind the scenes bidding war.

He’s probably the most coveted current trade block candidate in the league, aside from a surprise star trade, or the very complex Jimmy Butler situation.

Think a lot of people are going to either eat crow in a couple weeks, or they’re going to back track their asses off when he’s dealt for a really solid, yet reasonable return.

Or he remains a Net, because there isn’t a true rush to trade a guy who will still return really good value on draft night. Maybe better so, when a team who covets him such as OKC or Sacto could be sitting on something like pick 7 or 10 overall, and there’s a guy the Nets love “sliding”, and presto, deal amendable from all sides, Stepein Rules easier to navigate.

I mean the price seems pretty well set. I will be surprised if it's a nondescript FRP and matching contract. I will be less surprised if it's a legit prospect with pick(s) attached.

Yeah I agree with you on Cam’s value, I just don’t think a team like GSW needs to send essentially 2 unprotected 1st’s for him given their personal timeline.

OKC seems the obvious match, being their core age, and the wealth of other teams lightly and unprotected picks, which they can afford to part with for a player like Cam, while still maintaining their war chest.

And can definitely see a team like Sacto paying an unwise price because they do desperate and silly things often.

Not that Cam J isn’t worth say, one of Devon Carter or Murray and a future unprotected first, just that with how the Fox situation is likely to blow up, and how they’ll be in the lotto mix in the stacked West, they probably shouldn’t trade their own pick that would likely windup say 8th-11th in record and have a very good shot at a top 4 jump.

But that is what the Nets should wait on for him, a deal like that. Not some mediocre quantity over quality package with protected picks or picks from sustainable contenders.

[xdrta+]

Eh, they just need to add Waters and one other min guy (Santos) and they are there...
Funny enough, the day I told you the trade machine was not showing any issues, it updated that night, and now it includes the unlikely incentives. Probably was in the works for a while and it was coincidence, but I am still giving you all the credit

Now, I don't know how all of this impacts the back-fill. There is probably a path with 2-ways.
Not sure if he can be moved, but also Hield is a contact that could be broken up if the right situation were available.

Yeah, Warrior fans keep trying to work out a trade for Johnson but it's difficult. With the Nets close to a hard cap themselves, the extra salary has to go somewhere else. Then you're down 2 or 3 roster spots....there are ways, I suppose, but it's just not very practical.