Brown to Heat, Love to Lakers, Robinson to Raptors

[SA37]

Really odd to see the Raptors contingent complaining about taking on Robinson or some other future money. If what the Raptors wanted was an expiring, there would be absolutely no reason to get involved in facilitating a Butler trade just keep Brown and let him expire.

The reason teams are interested in facilitating a deal is because they can either get a prospect or some draft compensation for....taking on contracts teams don't want.

And the Raptors could keep Robinson/Rozier/whoever and try to repeat the same transaction again next year with another team looking to add shooting, which most teams usually are.

The debate about

Raptors contingent complaining about taking on Robinson or some other future money

is between a Cavs fan and a Miami fan!

The Raptors fans in the thread mostly think it's bad value because
(1) they want to use the $10M available under the tax line this season, not clog up next year
or
(2) they think it's overpaying for 2 meh SRPs when the incoming players are of no use to TOR

Sure, you can debate the value of the players/picks being worth making a trade, but the assumption is Robinson would be cut and the Raps would be paying $10M for a player they cut. But that assumes Robinson could not be moved in the summer or next season/has no value on Toronto or to other teams, which I don't think is the case given how valued shooting is.

Bruce Brown has barely played this year and currently is more valuable for his contract than he is for his play. What do people think Toronto is getting for him? In any case, no reason Robinson wouldn't be at least worth what Bruce Brown is now next season.

[oldncreaky]

Really odd to see the Raptors contingent complaining about taking on Robinson or some other future money. If what the Raptors wanted was an expiring, there would be absolutely no reason to get involved in facilitating a Butler trade just keep Brown and let him expire.

The reason teams are interested in facilitating a deal is because they can either get a prospect or some draft compensation for....taking on contracts teams don't want.

And the Raptors could keep Robinson/Rozier/whoever and try to repeat the same transaction again next year with another team looking to add shooting, which most teams usually are.

The debate about

Raptors contingent complaining about taking on Robinson or some other future money

is between a Cavs fan and a Miami fan!

The Raptors fans in the thread mostly think it's bad value because
(1) they want to use the $10M available under the tax line this season, not clog up next year
or
(2) they think it's overpaying for 2 meh SRPs when the incoming players are of no use to TOR

Sure, you can debate the value of the players/picks being worth making a trade, but the assumption is Robinson would be cut and the Raps would be paying $10M for a player they cut. But that assumes Robinson could not be moved in the summer or next season/has no value on Toronto or to other teams, which I don't think is the case given how valued shooting is.

Bruce Brown has barely played this year and currently is more valuable for his contract than he is for his play. What do people think Toronto is getting for him? In any case, no reason Robinson wouldn't be at least worth what Bruce Brown is now next season.

I'd note that Robinson next season will either be (1) on the books for $19M or (2) cut for $9.5M. Neither of those prospects look tasty to TOR next season, and if we cut him, we can't "move" the bad news to this season. If you look at my post #15 earlier in the thread, TOR could fit Robinson on their 2025-26 cap sheet, but that it has an opportunity cost.

As for Brown's value according to TOR fans, I don't think there is any consensus. Some want him valued as he was in June 2022. Some just want to cut him. Some, including me, think it was a mistake to extend his PO becuase his on-court production when healthy is worth roughly half his $23M salary i.e. negative.

I think Bruce Brown might have some value if used to take back a worse contract, but that's there's a real good chance he's on TOR's roster in March, and that they'll have to sit him to avoid winning too many games.

[SA37]

Spoiler:

The debate about

is between a Cavs fan and a Miami fan!

The Raptors fans in the thread mostly think it's bad value because
(1) they want to use the $10M available under the tax line this season, not clog up next year
or
(2) they think it's overpaying for 2 meh SRPs when the incoming players are of no use to TOR

Sure, you can debate the value of the players/picks being worth making a trade, but the assumption is Robinson would be cut and the Raps would be paying $10M for a player they cut. But that assumes Robinson could not be moved in the summer or next season/has no value on Toronto or to other teams, which I don't think is the case given how valued shooting is.

Bruce Brown has barely played this year and currently is more valuable for his contract than he is for his play. What do people think Toronto is getting for him? In any case, no reason Robinson wouldn't be at least worth what Bruce Brown is now next season.

I'd note that Robinson next season will either be (1) on the books for $19M or (2) cut for $9.5M. Neither of those prospects look tasty to TOR next season, and if we cut him, we can't "move" the bad news to this season. If you look at my post #15 earlier in the thread, TOR could fit Robinson on their 2025-26 cap sheet, but that it has an opportunity cost.

As for Brown's value according to TOR fans, I don't think there is any consensus. Some want him valued as he was in June 2022. Some just want to cut him. Some, including me, think it was a mistake to extend his PO becuase his on-court production when healthy is worth roughly half his $23M salary i.e. negative.

I think Bruce Brown might have some value if used to take back a worse contract, but that's there's a real good chance he's on TOR's roster in March, and that they'll have to sit him to avoid winning too many games.

Sure, but any player Toronto takes back will create an opportunity cost for Toronto next season.

I agree with your assessment on Brown's value, but I think Toronto realizes the only way they're moving him is if they take back salary for next season. I still think Rozier would be the piece going to Toronto, and I don't think Rozier at $26M is any tastier to Toronto than Robinson at $19M or at $9.5M. That assumes it is a Miami player going to Toronto, but any player Toronto would take back would have roughly one of these numbers on the books next season.

It's hard to speculate without knowing which teams would ultimately be involved in a Butler trade, but Toronto may be able to send Olynyk away for an expiring and that would make taking salary back for Brown less unpalatable.

[Texas Chuck]

Brown isn't likely to win too many games, but just buy him out after the deadline if you are worried

[oldncreaky]

Brown isn't likely to win too many games, but just buy him out after the deadline if you are worried

He's added a win or 2 this month already, and in the tanking wars, every loss matters!

And he'd lose his Bird rights if cut. If offered a choice between
(1) chillin' with a hangnail and seeing if TOR can work out a S&T in July
or
(2) getting cut and not being able to sign with a bunch of apron teams since he's over the NTMLE
then Brown might just opt for (1) if he has a choice.

Meh. As I said, I think it's more likely than not that he's on TOR's roster in March. I think the trade value of players TOR is likely to move can be sorted based on ascending salary (Mitchell, then Boucher, then Brown) because it's mostly about money not on-court value

[Mr Swagtastic]

Can somebody please explain to me why this Raptor fan base wants JHS? He's going to be stuck behind Shed/IQ/Walter/Barrett/Gradey/Mitchell/Robinson. Like I get he's young and could be a breakout player but he's not worth eating $10 million in dead cap and getting 2 below average seconds.

Toronto is going to use Brown in a deal getting a worse expiring deal and a couple seconds or use him in a deal with a 3rd or 4tb team looking to shed bad salary

[Bentley1225]

Can somebody please explain to me why this Raptor fan base wants JHS? He's going to be stuck behind Shed/IQ/Walter/Barrett/Gradey/Mitchell/Robinson. Like I get he's young and could be a breakout player but he's not worth eating $10 million in dead cap and getting 2 below average seconds.

Toronto is going to use Brown in a deal getting a worse expiring deal and a couple seconds or use him in a deal with a 3rd or 4tb team looking to shed bad salary

JHS value is the fact he’s an expiring. If the Raps want to entertain keeping him beyond this season for a minimum deal and his summer, acquiring him and getting a glorified tryout may have some intangible value to the organization.

The $10 million dead cap hit isn’t going to change Raptors plans for this off-season. It’s clear with extensions to Quickley and Barnes that they want to develop their starting 5 with Quickley/Dick/Barrett/Barnes/Poeltl and then you have Shead/Walter/Agbaji/Olynyk/Mogbo as your rotational pieces and the 2025 draft picks. Maybe they add a veteran PG and Wing for splitting exemption money but by no means are they adding a top 8 rotational pieces in free agency

[BBallFreak]

So the raptors want to help facilitate trades for bad salaries, but only expiring bad salaries? And they're hard capped at the first apron (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/3424087/) so that means they can't take any more salary, correct?

So, if they're not willing to take salary for next year and they can't take more salary this year, what exactly are they doing to earn any picks? Robinson isn't a significantly worse player than Brown. He's an excellent three point shooter and has a surprisingly complete offensive game. Not a great defender but he's won his share of games, himself. Not trying to extol his virtues here, more just trying to figure out where you guys are coming from. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I just can't figure out what you're bringing to the table of you're not willing to take in a year of salary next season.