Shams: Ingram to Toronto

[Thaddy]

Masai is steadily increasing the value of the Raptors roster. They discussed a contract with Ingram and he's on board. They could easily sell him for a 20th pick next season.

They got a first option, RJ moves back to his natural position at SG and he's the 2nd option, then you have IQ and Barnes as players that set the table, and Poeltl as the last option. They have enough shooting for this to work and they finally have a shot creator.

The bench also adds Gradey because of this move while makes it much better. The Raptors will probably extend Ingram sitting out for a bit longer while they tank and then load manage him similar to how they are doing with IQ.

Two good picks and Ingram added for next year definitely propels them to the fringe playoff level.

[Duffman100]

Question for all Raptors fans. What is the goal for next season? I mean you should get a top 6-7 pick this year. You have Barnes, Quickley, and Barrett, you added Ingram. Is this a roster you guys try and win with? Or is this just another phase of the rebuild?

My guess is just asset accumulation and contracts to eventually make a splash. Trade for Ingram, extend him, sit him. Tank out the remainder of the year.

Next year you're looking at,

Quickley / Shead / Mitchell
RJ / Dick / Walter
Ingram / Ochai / Battle
Barnes / Mogbo /
Poeltl / Chomche

A high 2025 pick to hopefully shore up that front court (Malauch?) but obviously BPA.

That's a deep team with talent that in the East will likely make the playoffs (not the play in). Try and build up and use the contracts (Barret, Quickley, Ingram) to buy a star.

Spacing in that starting unit is going to be a problem, and that group also may give up 120ppg.

Yup, I still think they're a playoff team despite that. And I don't think this is the final form of the team obviously.

[oldncreaky]

My guess is just asset accumulation and contracts to eventually make a splash. Trade for Ingram, extend him, sit him. Tank out the remainder of the year.

Next year you're looking at,

Quickley / Shead / Mitchell
RJ / Dick / Walter
Ingram / Ochai / Battle
Barnes / Mogbo /
Poeltl / Chomche

A high 2025 pick to hopefully shore up that front court (Malauch?) but obviously BPA.

That's a deep team with talent that in the East will likely make the playoffs (not the play in). Try and build up and use the contracts (Barret, Quickley, Ingram) to buy a star.

Spacing in that starting unit is going to be a problem, and that group also may give up 120ppg.

Yup, I still think they're a playoff team despite that. And I don't think this is the final form of the team obviously.

They may not have financial room on the roster for Mitchell, and I don't count a lot on guys on 2-way contracts, so I think next year looks more like

Quickley / Shead
RJ / Dick / Walter
Ingram / Ochai
Barnes / Mogbo
Poeltl /

They'll have a FRP, SRP, Battle, Chomche competing for spots/roles; Mitchell is probably gone if they draft a G in the lottery; thye might bring back Boucher if he isn't moved today

I'm not sold on it as a "final form". That group looks small and young to me -- no C depth, Barnes the only PF you can count on, half the team still on their rookie contracts and only 3 guys past their early 20s. Shooting is hard to predict because a lot of it will need to come from guys on their rookie deals and you never know how they will develop. But I'd expect rebounding issues for sure.

Still, as long as BI doesn't bolt, they've accumulated talent by adding him

[Kalamazoo317]

Flirted with the idea of Ingram, but ultimately glad we didn't give up a first to get him.

[Godaddycurse]

Reserving judgement until we see if and what ingram signs for

[One_and_Done]

Feels like the Raptors now have 5 starters who put up stats but aren't really needle movers. I don't really see the point of the move. There's a reason nobody wants to pay this guy.

[Bentley1225]

Raps only make the deal based on conversation with Ingrams agent that they feel like they have a chance to sign him. It also signifies that the Raps don’t feel like Gradey is a starter which I agree given RJ will start at the 2. I like the aggressiveness of Raps to try and make play in.

[TGM]

Feels like the Raptors now have 5 starters who put up stats but aren't really needle movers. I don't really see the point of the move. There's a reason nobody wants to pay this guy.

Ingram isn’t a 50-55 million a year player, but he is. a 35-40, which is what he probably resigns at.

It’s like people hating Lavine’a contract. If it were 15 million less. He would be an attractive piece. The new NBA is not about having 3 max players. Maybe 1-2 max players and a range of 25-35 million starters

[Troubadour]

The pure value of this trade is good. I'm curious to see what BI signs for in the off-season. So long as it's a flat contract, even if it's in the $40M range, that can be workable for two seasons or so.

Whether BI plays at all is another interesting question to me. He's been out for two months with a sprained ankle. From a tanking perspective, it's probably best that he doesn't play much or at all. That said, you are then in a position where you are effectively trading for his Bird rights without knowing exactly how he fits with your core group.

BI has more potential on this roster than Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynyk. I think this puts pressure on the Raptors to start competing next season. We'll see if they can rise to that.

[shrink]

The pure value of this trade is good. I'm curious to see what BI signs for in the off-season.

So you’re BI curious?

(Secret shout out to Arrested Development fans)

[Troubadour]

The pure value of this trade is good. I'm curious to see what BI signs for in the off-season.

So you’re BI curious?

(Secret shout out to Arrested Development fans)

You could also say Masai blue himself too early with this one

[Troubadour]

Saw someone compare this to the Norman Powell for Gary Trent Jr trade and they're right if you look at this as a trade in two parts

Pascal Siakam for Brandon Ingram (and more)

Siakam and Ingram have similar games, occupy similar spots on the floor, and both have similar drawbacks. What's the difference? Siakam is 30 and Ingram is 27. That's really it. That was the perceived difference between Norman Powell and GTJ too. As it turns out, younger isn't always better.

[gswhoops]

Saw someone compare this to the Norman Powell for Gary Trent Jr trade and they're right if you look at this as a trade in two parts

Pascal Siakam for Brandon Ingram (and more)

Siakam and Ingram have similar games, occupy similar spots on the floor, and both have similar drawbacks. What's the difference? Siakam is 30 and Ingram is 27. That's really it. That was the perceived difference between Norman Powell and GTJ too. As it turns out, younger isn't always better.

I mean, Siakam is also significantly better. So that's a difference.

[Troubadour]

Saw someone compare this to the Norman Powell for Gary Trent Jr trade and they're right if you look at this as a trade in two parts

Pascal Siakam for Brandon Ingram (and more)

Siakam and Ingram have similar games, occupy similar spots on the floor, and both have similar drawbacks. What's the difference? Siakam is 30 and Ingram is 27. That's really it. That was the perceived difference between Norman Powell and GTJ too. As it turns out, younger isn't always better.

I mean, Siakam is also significantly better. So that's a difference.

Well, there's also that, but Raptors fans don't want to hear that right now

[Jadoogar]

In vacuum, fair value. But like others have said, direction wise, this trade makes no sense. Not the type of player you need around Scottie and he's about to get paid. May as well have kept Siakam if this was the plan.

[jayjaysee]

As long as they don’t decide to mess with the tank, I like this direction for Toronto. If they move off RJ they can easily afford a big front loaded (or flat-ish if needed) deal for Ingram and just bank on drafting well this year.

[OGSactownballer]

Want to know specifics on that pick. But feels kinda like a lot. And also really weird. That Raptors roster already makes no sense and Ingram added to it seems so wrong.

You took the words out of my mouth.

I’m sorry but the reward vs gigantic risk and the bad fit make ZERO sense to me unless TOR is hoping to S and T in the offseason or just simply try it out and if it looks bad let him walk for all of it as space to pursue someone else.

[OGSactownballer]

The pure value of this trade is good. I'm curious to see what BI signs for in the off-season. So long as it's a flat contract, even if it's in the $40M range, that can be workable for two seasons or so.

Whether BI plays at all is another interesting question to me. He's been out for two months with a sprained ankle. From a tanking perspective, it's probably best that he doesn't play much or at all. That said, you are then in a position where you are effectively trading for his Bird rights without knowing exactly how he fits with your core group.

BI has more potential on this roster than Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynyk. I think this puts pressure on the Raptors to start competing next season. We'll see if they can rise to that.

He and his camp have been abundantly clear that they are seeking the max.

And the universal opinion is that he isn’t worth anything close to that.

[cpower]

Not a bad trade just don't extend him please

[Morris_Shatford]

Obviously the value of any potential extension will sway my thinking

But generally value, I am quite content.
Fit its a little WTF
Biggest winner - Raps mods who no longer need to deal with the ocean of threads talking about what sort of value Brown or Kelly could extract.