Gobert to Hawks

[SA37]

They had the #1 defense in the league last yr and Gobert was DPOY but the team success had much more to do with KAT and Ant leading the #17 offense? Good to know

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And yet Gobert didn't make the all-star game nor get selected for the all-NBA team?

Looking just at last year, if those non-awards are legit because his offensive limitations are so huge, then this matters. If it's another example of the voters focusing 80% on offense and 20% on defense, then it's their issue, not Gobert's.

The defensive ranking seems to be primarily led by Gobert in the same way that the Nash offenses in Phoenix can be primarily credited to him despite strong offense from Amare and Marion. So if without Gobert, they drop to 10th in the league in offense, they would probably have to be held back offensively enough by him to be a top 10 offense without him for this to be good voting. Does that make sense?

FWIW, Gobert has made all-NBA teams before (2nd team in 16'-17', 3rd team 3 straight seasons from 18-19' to 20-21'). He averaged 14.9 ppg in 16'-17' and then 17.9, 15.8, and 16.7ppg, respectively, in the 3 seasons he made the 3rd team. Interesting, in his highest scoring season, he was not selected as an all-star.

So I don't see Gobert's lack of scoring being an issue for him making the all-NBA team or even the all-star team.

I'm not sure I completely understood the second paragraph, but the big difference between Gobert and Nash is Phoenix went from 29-53 to 62-20. Nash was the main reason, and the team's style of play was completely altered to his talents. We have not seen this effect in any way, shape, or form with Gobert.

And that is why I have argued it is a waste for a team like the Hawks to acquire him because Gobert is a limited player -- a glorified role player, imo, just like J Allen, J Holiday, Ben Wallace, or Draymond Green. I don't think Gobert would move the needle for any franchise that didn't already have 2 perennial all-NBA guys or 3 legit, perennial all-stars. I think his stint in Minnesota is proof of this.

[SA37]

They had the #1 defense in the league last yr and Gobert was DPOY but the team success had much more to do with KAT and Ant leading the #17 offense? Good to know.

And yet Gobert didn't make the all-star game nor get selected for the all-NBA team?

Have you ever watched an All Star game? Defense isn’t exactly the priority.

Nate Duncan lamented Gobert’s exclusion, saying that while it’s true Gobert will never win a spot from the fan vote in a conference with Jokic and Wemby, coaches that claim “defense wins championships” are hypocrites for not including Gobert on the All Star team. The problem with the system is apparent when you note that Gobert has been All NBA four times (15 players selected, and for the lower hurdle of All Star (24 selected), he has only made that three times.

Finally, it seems like you may really be just cherry-picking here, when you use that to ignore a DPOY (1 player selected). He’s won DPOY four times.

The same way people hand-wave away certain players as "only" being really good on offense, we can use the same hand-waving tactic for guys who "only" play D.

We've seen this with Ben Wallace, who was useless on any team that wasn't the Detroit Pistons. When the Warriors lost their stars, D Green was pedestrian. No one thought the world of J Allen until he ended up on a Cleveland team with 3 players who are better than he is.

Role players need specific situations to thrive in. Stars thrive everywhere. Gobert is much closer to being a role player than star. Like Ben Wallace, he thrived in a specific system on a specific team. Gobert has not dropped off like Wallace did, but Gobert simply has not moved the needle for Minnesota.

And, while this did take place in a different era, Dikembe Mutombo was able to make 8 all-star games and Alonzo Mourning was able to make 7.

[CP War Hawks]

Look man yall can argue about how effective Gobert is in a vacuum but the Hawks can't afford his salary for the usage he brings. Trae, Dyson need to get paid, can't have a low usage bigs clogging up salary in todays market.