HOU/BRK/ORL

[Skybox]

ORL sends: KCP, WCJ, DEN 25 frp #25
ORL gets: FVV
*ORL talks discounted extension for multiple years before pressing 'go'

BRK sends: Cam Johnson
BRK gets: WCJ, Jabari Smith, DEN 25 frp #25
*Jabari for Cam is a nice move for a rebuild, WCJ is still young enough to be a nice piece in their frontcourt, complementary to Claxton. BRK has a ton of cap space, but they'd be hard pressed to land a bigger young prospect than Jabari. They're still early in their rebuild.

HOU sends: FVV, Jabari Smith
HOU gets: Cam Johnson, KCP, Jett Howard
*Amen takes over at PG, Cam adds elite shooting (Jett offers possibility of same), KCP adds vet toughness, elite 3&D - ready for playoff contention. HOU still has tons of assets to make another move. Jabari was due a payday and Eason and Cam will make him expendable anyway. If Reed isn't ready to contribute, he likely still holds a lot of trade value for another PG a little farther along in his development.

[LarsV8]

I am high on Jabari and would not trade him for Cam Johnson. Cam has some sexy shooting numbers, but he is always missing games, also doesn't have the defensive versatility of JSJ. Cam might be better right now, but is 29 already somehow, while Jabari is about to turn 22. Frankly I would be disappointed if Jabari doesn't end up being a better player than CJ. That part of the deal is a non starter for me.

FVV, despite his poor efficiency, seems to have a pretty big intangible effect on the Rockets winning, IE they perform like a .500 team when he is out. You probably don't want FVV as your starting PG on a contending team, but perhaps more suited as a backup PG. I speculating that the Rockets purposefully overpaid FVV upfront with hopes of underpaying him on the back end, in a more reserved role, but we shall see. I understand that FVV probably doesn't have a strong trade value, but his value to us, is pretty high. KCP and WCJ just look like bad contracts and that first is not very good.

I could see a FVV deal to ORL if it facilitates a bigger deal which gets a primary offensive engine back to Houston (like a Trae Young perhaps), but don't think this deal is it.

[giberish]

Looks pretty bad for Houston and too good for Orlando. Right now Houston's very reliant on Van Vleet to have any offense. They need to add playmaking and shooting too him, not deal him without a lot of shooting/playmaking in return.

Also I think KCP's value is lower than this.

[Skybox]

I am high on Jabari and would not trade him for Cam Johnson. Cam has some sexy shooting numbers, but he is always missing games, also doesn't have the defensive versatility of JSJ. Cam might be better right now, but is 29 already somehow, while Jabari is about to turn 22. Frankly I would be disappointed if Jabari doesn't end up being a better player than CJ. That part of the deal is a non starter for me.
.

Just to address this part...I figured Eason is, at least for now, lapping JSJ and, conveniently, might not require the same $$$ extension, just based on draft position and general profile. I imagine that BRK might even prefer Eason to JSJ here, but assumed HOU low-key preferred to keep Eason. If HOU loves to stockpile young forwards, I'm sure any rebuilding team would be more excited about Reed instead.

I wonder what FVV's asking price for an extension would be and if he'd get more elsewhere as HOU (like ORL & OKC) are facing a bunch of significant extensions incoming - the price of drafting well and often. I know you, Lars, in particular, don't see Amen as rising to take FVV's PG role, but I wonder if others see that differently and HOU might prefer the cap relief shifting to two significant players from one. FVV is a huge salary, for now - by design...might be tough to "take it away" ala Klay without moving him out.

[oldncreaky]

In an alternate universe, ORL and TOR agree to trade FVV for expirings/cap-relief/picks at Feb 2023 trade deadline, when FVV's "ask" was a contract with a similar dollar value to Herro, roughly 4/130, and TOR was assuming they could resign FVV at a discount in the summer of 2023.

As I recall, ORL balked at the trade price, thinking they could get FVV for nothing as a FA; at that time HOU seemed destined to use their cap space on Harden and HOU was the only realistic alternative with loads of room. TOR pivoted to getting Poeltl and competing to make the play-in -- as well as running on a treadmill.

I bet HOU is thrilled with how things turned out, but both TOR and ORL regret the 2023 TDL decisions.

And I still don't think Mr Bet-on-Himself (FVV) is ever going to take a discount or fail to make the most of his leverage. For that reason alone, I think the FVV trade is not realistic.

[orlando_joe]

In an alternate universe, ORL and TOR agree to trade FVV for expirings/cap-relief/picks at Feb 2023 trade deadline, when FVV's "ask" was a contract with a similar dollar value to Herro, roughly 4/130, and TOR was assuming they could resign FVV at a discount in the summer of 2023.

As I recall, ORL balked at the trade price, thinking they could get FVV for nothing as a FA; at that time HOU seemed destined to use their cap space on Harden and HOU was the only realistic alternative with loads of room. TOR pivoted to getting Poeltl and competing to make the play-in -- as well as running on a treadmill.

I bet HOU is thrilled with how things turned out, but both TOR and ORL regret the 2023 TDL decisions.

And I still don't think Mr Bet-on-Himself (FVV) is ever going to take a discount or fail to make the most of his leverage. For that reason alone, I think the FVV trade is not realistic.

i do not think magic regret it at all..and do not think he is target at all or was..just a few fans ,,and fans of other teams

[Skybox]

In an alternate universe, ORL and TOR agree to trade FVV for expirings/cap-relief/picks at Feb 2023 trade deadline, when FVV's "ask" was a contract with a similar dollar value to Herro, roughly 4/130, and TOR was assuming they could resign FVV at a discount in the summer of 2023.

As I recall, ORL balked at the trade price, thinking they could get FVV for nothing as a FA; at that time HOU seemed destined to use their cap space on Harden and HOU was the only realistic alternative with loads of room. TOR pivoted to getting Poeltl and competing to make the play-in -- as well as running on a treadmill.

I bet HOU is thrilled with how things turned out, but both TOR and ORL regret the 2023 TDL decisions.

And I still don't think Mr Bet-on-Himself (FVV) is ever going to take a discount or fail to make the most of his leverage. For that reason alone, I think the FVV trade is not realistic.

I don't want him at $45m per. IF HOU doesn't pay him what he wants...where will he get it?

[Skybox]

In an alternate universe, ORL and TOR agree to trade FVV for expirings/cap-relief/picks at Feb 2023 trade deadline, when FVV's "ask" was a contract with a similar dollar value to Herro, roughly 4/130, and TOR was assuming they could resign FVV at a discount in the summer of 2023.

As I recall, ORL balked at the trade price, thinking they could get FVV for nothing as a FA; at that time HOU seemed destined to use their cap space on Harden and HOU was the only realistic alternative with loads of room. TOR pivoted to getting Poeltl and competing to make the play-in -- as well as running on a treadmill.

I bet HOU is thrilled with how things turned out, but both TOR and ORL regret the 2023 TDL decisions.

And I still don't think Mr Bet-on-Himself (FVV) is ever going to take a discount or fail to make the most of his leverage. For that reason alone, I think the FVV trade is not realistic.

i do not think magic regret it at all..and do not think he is target at all or was..just a few fans ,,and fans of other teams

My theory is that Weltman was dreaming of FVV while napping his way through that (and every) Trade Deadline...so, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Skybox]

In an alternate universe, ORL and TOR agree to trade FVV for expirings/cap-relief/picks at Feb 2023 trade deadline, when FVV's "ask" was a contract with a similar dollar value to Herro, roughly 4/130, and TOR was assuming they could resign FVV at a discount in the summer of 2023.

As I recall, ORL balked at the trade price, thinking they could get FVV for nothing as a FA; at that time HOU seemed destined to use their cap space on Harden and HOU was the only realistic alternative with loads of room. TOR pivoted to getting Poeltl and competing to make the play-in -- as well as running on a treadmill.

I bet HOU is thrilled with how things turned out, but both TOR and ORL regret the 2023 TDL decisions.

And I still don't think Mr Bet-on-Himself (FVV) is ever going to take a discount or fail to make the most of his leverage. For that reason alone, I think the FVV trade is not realistic.

i do not think magic regret it at all..and do not think he is target at all or was..just a few fans ,,and fans of other teams

My theory is that Weltman was dreaming of FVV while napping his way through that (and every) Trade Deadline...so, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Would have made SOOOO much sense at that time…developmentally AND competitively. Our young aces wouldn’t have spent the last couple of seasons floundering and reinforcing bad habits by taking turns playing 1 on 5. We had all the money in the world to burn on a floor leader THEN…now, we’re hoping to solidify our backcourt with an MLE and/or negative value, overpaid players at their career lows, while 3 22yo’s eat 75% of our cap. We will likely have to attach extra picks just to get to neutral now and AB still has never played & practiced with a real NBA PG. FVV’s deal expires just as Paolo’s kicks in…we would have had experience and leverage to make decisions at PG…now, we’re basically where we were then, but with a wasted final year of rookie deals on our big 3 and much more limited options. Our best hope is opposing GMs buying that our tradable assets like WCJ, KCP, & Isaac only appear to suck because of ORL’s incompetent roster construction and questionable (that was a charitable choice of wording) offensive “scheme”.

Just look at HOU’s growth and ours for reference.

[MoreyWins]

The Rockets' defense and rebounding are dependent on Jabari being as versatile as he is. There's a handful of players with his attributes on that end. I don't like the idea of messing with the foundation of what their team is built around. A bad defensive team coached by a defensive coach usually doesn't end in success.

[Frankie]

I love the idea of Cam Johnson in Houston. For the right price though. This suggestion seems a bit too steep for my liking. I'm not giving up Jabari, and FVV raises the floor of the team.